Lowering the driving age

mikeecho

Lowering the driving age.

What are your thoughts on this ?

There's been a bit in the news about it lately, and the incoming 4th EU directive on driving licences will have the final say.

https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-lunchtime-live/lowering-the-driving-age-to-16-a-bit-mad

Finland wanted to lower it to 15, but were blocked by the EU.

https://etsc.eu/finnish-cars-for-kids-plans-postponed-following-european-commission-warnings/

Personally I'm all for it.

Most of the US is 16 to drive with some states allowing 14 (accompanied)

Here in Ireland it's 17 drive a car, but in some EU countries it's 18.

And as for tractors, here a 16 yr old on a permit can drive a tractor (jcb fast track has a top speed of up to 80kmh) pulling a trailer unaccompanied.

Thoughts..

hoodie6029

Remember seeing a show years ago, maybe 20 plus years ago, and they were in Sweden. 15 year olds could drive a certain class of car. Basically an old Volvo, reduced down to two seats and a metal box welded around the gear stick so that it only had 3 forward gears. I’m sure there were a lot of other regulations around it but it was a good way for teenagers in rural Sweden to get around.

The younger generation just don’t seem to have the love for driving that people of my generation (40 y.o.) do.

I couldn’t wait to turn 17 and get driving on the road. Driving in my friend’s fields whetted my appetite. Even people that weren’t car mad were interested in getting driving and it was seen as a good thing to have when looking for a job.

Like anything here, insurance will be the kicker even if they do lower the age, so few will be able to afford it the number of extra drivers and car will be negligible in the greater scheme of things.

Ramasun

It should be raised to 18 not lowered.

Ireland is not a massive country where the nearest town is out of reach without motorised transport. Raising the age to 18 would reduce traffic, which has more benefits for everyone.

Mech1

We have no young drivers, insurance and red tape about licence rules have killed it. Where are our next batch of worker that have to drive coming from?

AyeGer

The insurance companies will have the data to tell if this is a good idea or not. Are 17 year olds responsible for a lot of accidents and claims, i'd imagine actuaries working for the insurance companies are likely to know if letting 16 year olds drive is a good idea or not.

AndrewJRenko

Would this be a good time to mention our climate crisis?

Strumms

According to the RSA waiting lists are up to 21 weeks to sit a test… that is as of last month, an article 3 weeks ago in fact in the Examiner confirmed.

so it is supposedly a good idea to create a greater demand ? Even moderate demand ?

any 16 year olds I know have still a reasonable amount of immaturity about them. Point of reference is that we are talking the age of kids in 5th year in secondary school, possibly even 3rd years… immaturity and good decision making don’t go hand in hand.

Irish kids of these demographics seem to be VERY immature…. When compared to their European and American counterparts.

Fatal road collisions are increasing. You won’t temper that statistic by making it legal for thousands of children to be allowed drive….dumb idea.

wotzgoingon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552556#Comment_120552556

by making it legal for thousands of rich children to be allowed drive….dumb idea.

FYP.

Charles Babbage

The way forward here would seem to be smart boxes that ensure the driver is driving properly. The technology exists, what does not exist is the will to enforce the use of it.

beachhead

Lowering could lower the population as well

magicbastarder

why now? because this trend was noticed years ago:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/we-may-have-reached-peak-car-as-young-people-turn-away-from-driving-1.4075886

duffman3833

There needs to be restrictions in place if this was to get the green light.

As mentioned already, can only insure under 18 if they are monitored with a Smart Box with severe penalties and possibly can only insure on a max 1.2L engine which will rule out getting access to parents 2.0 diesel.

LIGHTNING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552544#Comment_120552544

Ah yes the millions of under 17's in Ireland that are going to take up driving if this is put in place. Will make a massive change in the global impact that Ireland currently has.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552544#Comment_120552544

😂

There's always one.

Yes, lowering the driving age in Ireland by a year will cause the planet to spontaneously combust.

Religion has a strange effect on the mind.

Meanwhile the 340 million cars in China can be ignored because "it's the wests fault"

magicbastarder

i can't listen to the audio in the OP in work.

when they say 'plans in brussels' do they mean 'some lobby group has floated the idea and got some support from the car manufacturing regions in germany etc.'?

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552428#Comment_120552428

I'm guessing you live in Dublin.

In most of Ireland, it is difficult or impossible to go anywhere without a car. Rural areas are spread out, with narrow winding roads, not ideal for cycling or walking, and, to take my own situation into account, when my kids were growing up, their GAA club was 7 miles away, their soccer club 5 miles, and their school 4 miles.

Reducing traffic only benefits those who can still drive, it most definitely does not benefit those you prevented from driving.

artanevilla

I think in Finland you get your driving licence before your birth cert. This is because Finns have a natural and inherent ability to be incredible drivers.

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553465#Comment_120553465

You chose to live where you live presumably?

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553511#Comment_120553511

Are you saying that one should either live in Dublin or not live in Ireland at all?

Guess where much of the food you eat in Dublin comes from.

morritty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553511#Comment_120553511

Not everyone can afford rent or a mortgage in Dublin, sure just make everyone living in Rural Ireland stay at home all day everyday

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553552#Comment_120553552

for fear of putting words in his mouth, i suspect his question was along the lines of 'you chose to live 4 miles from your kids school, presumably?'

not 'you chose not to live in dublin, presumably?'

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553597#Comment_120553597

Same thing though.

Is he (or you) suggesting that one should only be allowed to live, say, 500 meters from a school? Would that apply to everyone regardless of having kids or not? If not, would you be forced to move if you did have kids? What if you had kids and all the houses within 500 meters of all the schools were already occupied by parents? Would you then be banned from having kids?

I don't think he (and possibly you) have thought through the implications of this question. As long as this is still a relatively free country, we can live where we like, and are entitled to drive to get places.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552428#Comment_120552428

...how exactly?

morritty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553597#Comment_120553597

FFS not everyone has the luxury to chose the ideal location within 500m or everything they need.

BRB just gona build a school, shop, petrol station and a pub in me back garden

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553617#Comment_120553617

well, it's clearly not the same thing, just because you disagree with both possible conclusions.

my wife grew up over 4km from the nearest village, necessitating being driven everywhere. it was her parents choice to move there, and this is similar for vast numbers of people who live in the country.

the majority of people who live near my parents in law do not work on the land, they've chosen to live where they live, and as a result, have chosen to have to drive every time they need to run an errand.

also, there was no implication that you don't have a right to do what you did. the implication was that if you chose to live where you did, you chose those implications of being car dependent.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553641#Comment_120553641

Yes I choose to live where I do, and that choice makes me "car dependent" as you put it - so what? I've no complaints.

The poster I was responding to claimed that one didn't need a car anywhere in Ireland, I showed that you do.

I've no idea what you are arguing with me about?

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553552#Comment_120553552

I'm saying neither.

What I am saying is that if you chose to live in a rural location it's bizarre to moan about having to drive to places as a consequence.

p.s. I live in a small village and drive a lot as a result. I'm happy with my choice

magicbastarder

I've no idea what you are arguing with me about?

it's clear based on reading back through the posts - i thought you had misinterpreted Henry Ford's question, and then you misinterpreted my response.

anyway, you're obviously a farmer so the question is moot, no one would argue with you living where you farm.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553677#Comment_120553677

Where did you get the idea I'm moaning?

Like the poster above, you appear to be arguing with something I didn't say.

My response was to a poster who claimed "Ireland is not a massive country where the nearest town is out of reach without motorised transport" - I simply showed that this in not true, something both you and the other confused poster appear to agree with.......

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553683#Comment_120553683

Then we're both in agreement, as I thought!

I'm not a farmer as it happens, though I am from a farming family.

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553552#Comment_120553552

That's either a moan or a truly magnificent non sequitur.

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553465#Comment_120553465

Look at it this way the roads will be a lot safer for kids to walk or cycle the 10 or 6km to GAA or school without more cars on the road. And they'll be fitter, probably having an avantage on the pitch to the kids driving their parent's car to training.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553696#Comment_120553696

ah - your 'Guess where much of the food you eat in Dublin comes from' comment made me assume you were a farmer.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553703#Comment_120553703

A kid walking 5 or 6 miles to GAA on winding country roads on a dark winters evening will certainly require good reflexes.

I think you have a very romantic view of rural Ireland.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553700#Comment_120553700

It's neither, simply a statement of fact.

magicbastarder

the irony is a lot of the traffic which would be endangering kids walking to GAA training, would be from parents driving their kids to GAA training.

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553723#Comment_120553723

But just nothing to do with my point. Touché!

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553724#Comment_120553724

The only solution to that is to ban anyone from driving to GAA training, and see how that goes.

Of course, once you think about it, not ALL the traffic on the road will be parents driving to GAA practise, so you'd actually have to ban all traffic for a set time before, during and after GAA practice. Give it, what, 2 hours? for walking there, two back, and practice, so maybe 5 hours of a traffic ban. Given the different training times for different age groups and clubs, it's probably best to just ban all driving altogether.....

And we're back where we started!

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553731#Comment_120553731

😂

You're one of those lads that put "Touché!" after some inane sentence and think you've somehow won a argument (in your head presumably).

It's an evolution of the old trick of putting "FACT!!!" after something that isn't.

magicbastarder

that people living out in the countryside not only become car dependent, they force people who would prefer not to be car dependent, into cars?

getting back OT, can you imagine what those roads would be like during school rush hours, or GAA training etc., if parents were able to take the attitude 'i'm busy, drive yourselves to training'?

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553715#Comment_120553715

Do they not have a bicycle with lights? It's a 20-minute cycle, and wouldn't you be with them as well?

You take the time to drive them, surely you would also take the time to cycle.

I'm in the same boat, the nearest everything is a 25 minute walk at least. People carry on as if going for a walk is a death sentence.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553597#Comment_120553597

You might just as well say that the government located their school 4 miles from your house. In many cases people did live near schools but their children have to attend schools further away because they closed the original school.

As a general proposition, in a country where many people have no home it is ridiculous to assert that people should be required to abandon homes and move somewhere else.

magicbastarder

who asserted that people should be required to abandon their homes?

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553745#Comment_120553745

No. No I'm not.

Unfortunately comedy 15 mins is now over and I need to go back to work. I hope you can now go on arguing with someone else about basically nothing.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553754#Comment_120553754

Yeah. because twisty rural Irish roads have nice bike lanes so they can safely cycle to training in the pitch dark on a winters evening.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553765#Comment_120553765

I'd say it'll calm down once you're gone and no longer worried about losing face 😉

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553746#Comment_120553746

If the correct safety procedures were put in place, I don't see why it would be worse, and would most likely be better - parents rushing home from work to drive their teenager to training could be replaced by one teenager picking up several of their friends, making for less traffic on the roads.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553767#Comment_120553767

What did people do before bike lanes?

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553835#Comment_120553835

You mean back when there was less traffic travelling much slower on the roads?

Like say, 1983.

When 535 people died on Irish roads.

Or 1978.

When 628 people died on Irish roads.

Maybe you want that for your kids, but most people won't.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553677#Comment_120553677

Yeah. If those dumb kids had just filled out the correct forms before their birth then they wouldn't need access to transport in the first place, what idiots.

And why don't they just build a town in their own bedroom? Too busy Tiktokking and instagramming, thats why.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553862#Comment_120553862

If you want to continue your strawman argument then have at it. Your numbers include all deaths, not cyclists or pedestrians.

It's not a remotely equal comparison to make.