An end to free parking?

Gloomtastic!

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0426/1379332-free-parking-climate/

In Dublin this will affect civil and public servants the most, which is why it hasn't been implemented. It's a great idea though......

It will be brought in, just a matter of when and what conditions will apply e.g. May not apply to businesses with less than 10 spaces etc

Atlantic Dawn

It will never happen due to civil servant parking, unions would be up in arms.

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531940#Comment_120531940

How many parking spaces would that be? I’d say 90% of teachers will be affected.

Princess Calla

I'm on the fence about this one.

First off I've never driven to work, so I don't have skin in the game.

However, I've always lived in well serviced areas and worked in the city centre for the most part.

If you worked shifts especially in industrial estates where public transport is not great/safe or skeleton service I can see it being a problem.

There's still a lot of work to be done on public transport before this comes in.

Why don't we put the horse before the cart for a change.

Step 1: Provide reliable public transport

We are literally decades behind the rest of Europe. And I'm not just talking about wealthy countries, even poorer European countries leave us in the 1970s with their public transport.

EDIT: Yes, exactly what Princess Calla said above.

Overheal

Seems like overreach. The levy should be on the parking space not the employee using it. Not going to be a fair system to impose it on the employee: what of employees that carpool or take different transport on different days? If it’s sunny they bicycle etc. but the government is going to levy them every work day of the year because the space is there, Or the company lot is full and you have to pay for a space anyway while you get assessed the levy - now you have to fight with some exchequer and your box full of parking receipts from the past year.

You’d spend huge money administrating this properly that would eat into what you’d collect in fees anyway. A lot of new public sector jobs to shuffle deck chairs as a result.

Why not just impose levies on the spot with the employer when the spot is built/applied permit for, leave the employee out of it.

The gist of the proposals put forward are for the levy to be applied to the employer who then decides whether or not to pass it on to the employee

Let's be honest here, there are many, MANY, folks who are driving who have no business doing so as they have viable alternatives (walk/cycle/PT). Those are the ones that will be driven to modal shift by this.

The prioritising of the car is at an end. From here on its going to be hammered to make it the least attractive option while investment is also bolstered into AT/PT alternatives to make those more attractive.

Other things on the way

• No on street parking
• Parking levies on all hourly spaces
• Congestion /emission zone charges
• Reduced access, and so on

I'd strongly recommend that folks have a good look at the 5 Cities Demand Management Study as it outlines a load of options for reducing the amount of cars on the roads

This workplace parking levy is only one, lots more on the way

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532592#Comment_120532592

Let's be honest here, there are many, MANY, folks who are driving who have no business doing so as they have viable alternatives (walk/cycle/PT). Those are the ones that will be driven to modal shift by this.

And the ones who have no choice and are already faced with the nosebleed costs of owning a car in this country.....what about them? They'll just have to take it, will they? They're acceptable collateral damage as long as a few who could get the bus, but don't, are forced into doing so, are they? Or those who work outside the hrs suitable for PT? Just suck it up, eh?

"Hey, we know you can't get public transport because there's none out your way, and you're already paying through the fcuking nose for the car, VRT, NOX, fuel, maintenance, tax and insurance.....so here's an extra tax bill on €5k BIK that we just pulled out of our asses. Never mind that the country's biggest transport provider CIE charge €3.50 per day for parking, we'll use the most expensive parking meters in the country as our barometer for how much it costs."

Even those with access to trains etc are hampered by the crappy service. Need to commute along the Waterford line? Enjoy getting up at 5am. Or have to travel from Gorey because the housing situation is FUBAR?** The only train that arrives (in Heuston, remember) before 9.30 leaves Gorey before 6am. So that's minimum 2.5hrs travel each way by PT (and that's excluding the time taken to get to/from the train station) vs 1h 15mins by car, if you're lucky enough to get a parking spot. Then, you are lucky enough to get back to Gorey for 7.30pm.

This BS is the just the Govt. passing the buck in the exact same way they did with the housing situation, pawning off responsibility to those who are already trapped in the clusterfcuk. Ask anyone who has to drive across the capital to get to/from work and I'd wager the vast, vast, VAST majority would change if they could.

The whole thing smacks of begrudgery, again......same as the extra half hr everyone was forced to work and same as the FEMPI legislation which weren't classed as pay cuts when they were being introduced but all-of-a-sudden counted as raises when being restored. Divide and conquer - "Get them fighting amongst each other and they'll forget it's us they should be angry at."

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058294365/an-end-to-free-parking

Interested to see your maths on this and how you came to that conclusion, instead of relaying on ill-informed speculation, which is the norm on Boards to be fair.

1. How many Civil/public servants are there in Dublin, and how many of them drive?
2. How many private sector workers are there in Dublin, and how many of THEM drive?
3. How many private car parking spaces are there in the capital vs the number of ones reserved for use by the PS?
4. If you don't know the above, how can you make the claim that it will affect one side more than the other?

**I've known at least ten people in this kind of situation in each of my last 3 jobs in the PS. At least 10. In one place there were so many coming from the same county they ended up organising a private coach each day, it was that much cheaper.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532794#Comment_120532794

Move closer to the city. That’s what will be suggested in response to your post.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532794#Comment_120532794

Its about demand management. Simply put, there is a greater demand for the road space than there is capacity if everyone drives so you can either go the route of the US where they built major multi-lane roads right through the center if the cities (which was only a short term fix and just led to congestion on those routes) or you can do the same as everywhere else, and introduce measures to quench the demand for space for the least efficient mode and prioritise the more efficient modes in terms of investment and access.

Are there viable alternatives everywhere? Nope and thats down to under-investment for decades and prioritising the car, but thats not a reason not to do it, its a reason to put even more investment into those alternatives. Measures such as the parking levy which just increase the volume of those demanding viable alternatives

Kiteview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532794#Comment_120532794

You’re making a strong case for dramatic improvements for the train services to/from those destinations. That should obviously be an urgent local priority irrespective of whether the parking fee/levy comes in or not.

Kiteview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532430#Comment_120532430

The problem with that is that so long as private car usage is prioritised, numbers using public transport will always be impaired.

It just doesn’t make economic (or political) sense to run empty public transport for large chunks of the day on the off chance that people might suddenly start using it.

Hence, you won’t get “reliable public transport” unless there is a guarantee of significant numbers of users actually using it on a continuous basis - and that “guarantee” will not come about by prioritising private car usage.

elperello

Is there any proposal for alternative use of the car parking spaces ?

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534191#Comment_120534191

Schools could use the space as it was originally intended - childrens play areas. The car park on Kildare Street that TDs and Senators have a lifetime right to park on could revert to a garden again.

tayto lover

Just another dose of Green nonsense.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120536583#Comment_120536583

Sounds like a good idea to use the space for the kids to play.

I think current working TDs Senators etc should have parking but not sure about retired members.

I wonder is the arrangement for lifetime use some legal arrangement or just custom and practice.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120536613#Comment_120536613

Not really, as the Green Party seem opposed to or certainly divided on this matter of taxing work car parking. This is a city issue primarily and that's the voter landscape for the Green Party now, so they are very wary of policies, no matter how Green, that will damage their areas of support.

Jarhead_Tendler

The Green party sitting around thinking of ways they can ride the ordinary Irish worker. The backlash for their stupid policies will be seen by all at the next GE

Tenzor07

Load of ballox!

Company's are already struggling to attract good well qualified workers due to the fact that rents are sky high if and when you can actually find a place to rent, or pay €100000's to buy a house in Dublin.. People have no choice but to drive from all over the country to get to their jobs..

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531957#Comment_120531957

They are struggling to get teachers to teach in Dublin. This would completely kill off any chance schools had at recruitment and retainment

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534156#Comment_120534156

I had a different reply typed out but reading your post again, do we agree?

I don't want to prioritise car usage...I want to discourage car usage but only when people have a reliable public service.

Galwayguy35

Those tree huggers are a scourge on society.

Murph85

There should be a e1.20 etc charge for going over the canals. No free parking in city centre...

magicbastarder

problem is if they're trying to calculate a market value on parking, it's variable. would cost a lot more to pay for parking in the city centre than it would just outside the canals, etc., and if they are talking about provision of free parking as a benefit, it'd have to take into account how much it'd cost to park a car nearby.

and if there's a housing estate nearby, the answer could very well be 'nothing'.

jackboy

It will be a great incentive for locals to rent out their residential car park spots during he working week. Could be handy money.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120538280#Comment_120538280

Gonna have to levy you for trying to make money off your space

Speedline

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120538280#Comment_120538280

Just park outside their house instead. There's plenty of housing estates near the industrial estate I work in.

The Spider

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534156#Comment_120534156

There’s no reason in the world that a train from Gorey ton Dublin City centre should take more than 45 mins, if that can be delivered everyone will leave their cars, it’s that simple see? Come up with solutions before just randomly announcing punishments, people will still drive they’ll just park in housing estates etc

Larbre34

Its simply not going to happen ahead of DART+, Metro and Bus Connects being fully complete. Actual practical alternatives in a modern city.

My wife looked at a job change last year. She currently takes public transport on the days she's required to be in, but with the new job, the present options would be a 25 min drive or a 1 hr 40 min public transport journey, each way, every day and so she didn't apply for it.

Politicians may be dim, but they aren't suicidal. Trying to tax or charge on a BIK basis for parking on private land is just not there yet. It may not even be constitutional.

Strumms

I have the screenshot somewhere from my last foray into this discussion and it was 10 minutes driving vs 37 minutes walking and public transport.

so 100 minutes on average commuting by car return… per week.

vs

370 minutes on average commuting by public transport / on foot per week.

Whatever about the government disincentivising cars.

eejits need to get about incentivising quality and efficient and effective public transport.

improve it, make it run on time, make it run more frequently and be far reaching..

charging for parking won’t do SFA… it’s just a troll move / ideal by people who are anti car…

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120544881#Comment_120544881

Those extra billions the government now has due to the corporation tax windfall. Apart from paying some of the country’s debt, a major upgrade to our cities PT infrastructure would be a wise move.

As opposed to looking underground like the metro maybe we should consider an overground mono rail system.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531940#Comment_120531940

Strange how the unions haven’t been up in arms about all the OPW moves to new buildings which have tiny amounts of parking, maybe 1 space for 2-3% of occupants.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120544961#Comment_120544961

Nah, that’s more of a Shelbyville idea.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120544994#Comment_120544994

Examples of?

screamer

Course they can’t make remote working a legal entitlement to aleviate traffic, course not. Cant put in quality, reliable public transport that runs when it’s needed and convenient to get workers to work on time, course not. But easy as pie to levy another payroll tax. It’ll be a case of last one left turn out the lights in Ireland if they just keep on with their stick and no carrot policies. I’m convinced at this stage we should just turn ireland into a nature reserve, and all abandon ship.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545187#Comment_120545187

It’ll be a case of last one left turn out the lights in Ireland if they just keep on with their stick and no carrot policies.

Carrot policies such as?

Or are you simply not wanting to be inconvenienced by changes for the greater good?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545153#Comment_120545153

Spencer Dock, Trinity Point would be two that I’m aware of.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120536825#Comment_120536825

Lots of teachers leaving my kids school last suimmer and this summer. Im sure a lot of the remaining one probaly cant even afrford to live or rent near the school, not that that they would want to live near where they teach, but take away their parking and they will be gone too. So much virtue signalling around and not one thought as to what the knock on effects will be. Kind of like why we are where we are with rent prices now.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545187#Comment_120545187

how could they make remote working a legal entitlement? there are huge numbers of jobs which require physical presence to do work; how could you legislate for 'people have an entitlement to work from home except when they can't'?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545242#Comment_120545242

...but take away their parking...

Who is proposing this idea because it is not mentioned in the article in thr OP? In fact the article quotes "We’re not saying take the car away from people"

It is merely saying that free parking is a benefit to some employees and so therefore could be levied or taxed.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120538249#Comment_120538249

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120544772#Comment_120544772

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120544776#Comment_120544776

This idea of parking in housing estates probably won't be too popular with the residents of said estates.

magicbastarder

i was talking with someone at the weekend about that - there's an estate beside clonsilla railway station where the residents obviously lobbied for paid parking, due to the proximity of the railway station. i don't know of any other metered estate within 5 or 10km of there; i wonder how rigourously it's policed.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545430#Comment_120545430

It's likely to cause problems.

Imagine arriving home from a night shift to find you can't park near your house because people working days in a nearby factory have bagged all the spaces.

magicbastarder

sounds like the root cause of the issue here is the expectation of free parking.

the factory workers park there because they expect to be able to park for free. the resident/homeowner expects to be able to park on the road outside their house for free (and for it to be retained for their exclusive use, too).

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545264#Comment_120545264

See what I mean. You are not thinking it through at all. You thing its just taxing people. What you are really doing is making their work more unattractive.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545439#Comment_120545439

Dont worry, wont be too long after they have taxed work place parking that they'll be taxing you for parking near your house too. Slippery slope.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545264#Comment_120545264

As you well know it's a further tax on going to work, as if workers aren't taxed enough having to pay more just to get to work could push some lower paid workers into saying "I'd be better off on Benefits"....

To drive a car in this country is a massive source of taxation for the Government, motor tax, VRT, excise duty on fuel/repairs/maintenance..

Where is this tax going to? Directly into providing reliable, cheap/efficient/safe public transport? Don't make me laugh!

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545462#Comment_120545462

It is a conflict of rights and both sides will make strong cases.

On road parking is more of an issue where you have multiple occupancy.

Also more adult children are living at home due to the cost of accomodation.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545473#Comment_120545473

So many slippery slopes.

More households will concrete front gardens to make parking spaces.

This will reduce bio diversity and increase flooding risks.

magicbastarder

i live near DCU. it's not an issue where i am, but there are some nearby estates where residents are driven mad by badly parked cars, left there by students (possibly staff too, but they probably have a staff car park).

AFAIK the council have asked the locals would they agree to the introduction of metered parking, but they've never got the required numbers as there are too many houses which are populated by students...