Deceased English couple in Tipperary

hoodie6029

The inquest took place on this today. Foul play was ruled out. I guess we’ll never know what happened.

’chose to withdraw from society’ comment, telling their GP that they are moving and glue in the locks are a bit ominous. But maybe the glue was just keep a draft out and one of them got too ill to travel and they both passed away in quick succession, which is not unheard of.

I do feel sorry for the community there too who were negatively tarred at the time.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mystery-still-surrounds-death-of-elderly-couple-found-mummified-in-house-1468280.html

looksee

It is so unfair to blame neighbours when someone is found dead like this.

In most cases, and especially in this case, the deceased were private or reclusive and would not have welcomed someone knocking on the door to ask after them, and have probably made this clear in the past. This couple went to extra lengths to tie up their obligations and give the impression they were leaving, maybe they did intend to leave and something happened, we will never know. There doesn't have to be any 'blame' laid on anyone, and certainly not, in the circumstances, on the neighbours.

SEPT 23 1989

No point going on really if you are going to lose the love of your life at that age

they probably decided to go together which is very romantic in a way

Potential-Monke

I would have thought the same, until I read that they were found in separate rooms. I reckon one went before the other, and the other just gave up. The glue in the locks is weird, but no evidence at all of foul play. Sad story.

Hungry Burger

The fact they told everyone they were going abroad and the house was already sold is what throws me on this.

I got the impression that they were completely petrified of the Covid scare propaganda and decided to make a pact as they felt the world wasn’t worth living in anymore.

L1011

Lock barrels aren't draught sources to the point that you'd glue them up; and the large charity donations make me think it was at least somewhat planned.

Gusser09

If the gaf was sold did the buyer not go there and see what the story was? Very sad but very strange in a way. May they both rest in peace. If they ingested poison or it was suicide i presume it would nearly be imossible to tell given it was at least a year.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529323#Comment_120529323

The glue in the locks would indicate that they decided that neither could leave no matter how desperate they became, i doubt anyone else had a key so it wasn't to prevent entry. If/when he died (it would seem plausible that he died first given the way he was found), she would starve herself. Breaking the crockery and knocking over the television to deal with her grief before wrapping herself with the blankets and having the heater on to ease the inevitable. Sad but a very endearing example of true love.

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529611#Comment_120529611

If she really wanted to get out she could have easily broken a window, so what’s the point of gluing the locks?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529664#Comment_120529664

Not at that age, and especially so if they'd deliberately starved themselves.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529664#Comment_120529664

My first reaction too, but an 80 year old with arthritis might not be physically able to get out

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529664#Comment_120529664

I'm guessing so people couldn't enter or she couldn't get out. Modern windows are hard to break.

Very sad, but some closure and vindication for the traumatised neighbours.

JP Liz V1

Did they have any kids or family?

It is sad, may they both rest in peace

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529733#Comment_120529733

It was said on Virgin Media news that plates of food were found on the ground so I don’t think they deliberately starved themselves. Bizarre case altogether.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529783#Comment_120529783

He had a brother, and she had a son from a prior relationship. Both covered in the article linked in the OP.

Gusser09

Would the son get the estate?

Seriously odd.

hoodie6029

Given how organised they seemed from the articles about them in the last year, I’d be surprised if they didn’t have a will. I’m sure it’ll come out in the media in time.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529968#Comment_120529968

Plates of food or just plates? Inquest report posted said crockery only.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529736#Comment_120529736

An 80 year old with arthritis could probably break the front windows of the house and call for help or neighbours and passers-by might see that they were in distress and needed help.

The house isn't quite as remote as the newspapers are making out. The front of the house can be seen from the road and it's not far from the postbox so at a minimum, a broken window would be seen by the postman.

I don't think she tried to get out.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529382#Comment_120529382

I got the impression that they were completely petrified of the Covid scare propaganda and decided to make a pact as they felt the world wasn’t worth living in anymore.

Complete speculative rubbish.

Deeec

I think its possible they knew one of them was dying and they couldnt live without each other. They agreed that the other would die by whatever way around the same time. They didnt want to be found for some time so told others they were going away - it would appear this was just to avoid people calling to the house. They gave a lot of money away to charity so didnt want relatives benefiting too much after their death. I would say there is a will where property is also left to charity. It seems all they had in life was each other. Everything seemed to have been planned.

Its strange that she had a child in 1961 and it would seem she had no involvement with him at all - I read he was bought up by his grandmother. There must a sad story behind this as well.

Its a tragic story to read but for this couple their plan probably worked out exactly the way they had planned it.

HildaOgdenx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120528698#Comment_120528698

It is so unfair to blame neighbours when someone is found dead like this.

Totally agree, and I remember thinking that at the time too.

As an aside, it's not unknown for a couple to die, of natural causes within a very short time of each other. I know of two double funerals, both elderly couples, in the past two / three years.

May they rest in peace.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531183#Comment_120531183

I have a case in my extended family of it being the morning and night of the same day. Cant remember which was the later, but as close as a case of just giving up when losing their spouse of decades as possible

bb1234567

Was just watching the Last of Us the episode with the gay couple and weirdly it reminded me back to this story. Very sad and I do hope they are at peace. What a strange way to live your life though. I hope nobody I know ever feels so little good about society that they'd want to seal themselves away permanently.

GavPJ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529501#Comment_120529501

Was the house sold? Can't see any mention of it.

A very sad story.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531754#Comment_120531754

My bad. I could have sworn I read somewhere that the house had been sold.

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531970#Comment_120531970

From what I remember from other articles they told the gardener that the house had been sold but that obviously wasn’t the case.

archfi

Yes, extremely sad story.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529501#Comment_120529501

The house wasn’t sold. That was just part of the story he/she/they put about the village in order to explain away in advance their disappearance.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530809#Comment_120530809

Some people can’t stop themselves from editorialising these news stories in order to make them as lurid as possible.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530028#Comment_120530028

€16000 was left to various charities. I don’t know why you think the story is “odd”. Elderly couple die in cleverly preplanned suicide pact isn’t very original and there’s absolutely not one single thing suspicious in the whole tale.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530028#Comment_120530028

The husband owned the house so probably not

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530763#Comment_120530763

They told the post office they were going to France

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532963#Comment_120532963

We dont know it was suicide though. Thats speculation.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534484#Comment_120534484

What’s the most likely scenario in your opinion. Based on all the evidence that we have heard about AND taking into consideration that the investigation has concluded that there was no suspicious circumstances.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534478#Comment_120534478

Yep, but the postman would still be passing regularly. And junk mail etc. is often delivered to unoccupied houses.

I'm not giving out about the postman. I'm just saying that if the person inside couldn't get out, a broken window would be noticed sooner rather than later, either by the postman or a neighbour.

There was someone cutting the grass while they were dead inside. They could have tried to signal for help if they wanted to get out. My feeling is that they didn't want to get out.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120535268#Comment_120535268

I wonder if both made the decision not to get out, or if one of the two made the decision for both of them not to get out.

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120535268#Comment_120535268

Why are you searching for someone to blame?

I think I got less than half a dozen physical letters last year and being rural, I get very little junk mail.

They kept to themselves, they intimated that they were moving away, they had no connection with the area.

It's just one of those things.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120536247#Comment_120536247

What makes you think I'm searching to blame anyone? I even said I wasn't blaming the postman. Here's exactly where I'm not blaming the postman, or anyone else for that matter.

Yep, but the postman would still be passing regularly. And junk mail etc. is often delivered to unoccupied houses.

I'm not giving out about the postman. I'm just saying that if the person inside couldn't get out, a broken window would be noticed sooner rather than later, either by the postman or a neighbour.

I was originally replying to a post saying that there was glue in the locks and they couldn't get out. I was saying if they couldn't get out, they could have broken a window and signalled. The fact that they didn't break a window to signal for help leads me to believe they didn't want to get out. Or at least the one remaining person alive didn't want to get out.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120536195#Comment_120536195

Whatever it was, it was preplanned for sure seeing as they told the neighbours/postman that the house was sold, they were going away etc. And the fact that they gave away their money.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529382#Comment_120529382

"Covid scare propaganda"?

hoodie6029

Indo update on this today.

https://m.independent.ie/news/we-should-never-have-set-foot-in-ireland-torn-up-letter-reveals-lonely-life-and-cruel-deaths-of-mysterious-tipperary-couple/a153202768.html

To get around the paywall - https://archive.is/wCuDf

JMNolan

It's some bizarre tale, I have a lot of questions...

Bizarre indeed. Lots of questions wow.

Looks like they might have lost their minds in rural Ireland.

hoodie6029

Sounds like they, Hilary anyway, were struggling with their mortality and failing health due to age. ‘Perfectly healthy before we came to Ireland’. She was in her late 60’s and Nicholas, just past 70 when they moved here. In 10 or 11 years, at that stage of your life, it wouldn’t be usual for your health to deteriorate.

We will never know what happened. Nicholas could have passed away in his sleep and Hilary then gave up and starved herself to death.

I think the wording of the article is very careful on purpose.

‘Although signed in both their names, the letter appears to have been written by Hillary Smith’

‘a two-line note was sent from his email’

‘On the same day, his email address was used to arrange a “MailMinder”’

Nicholas may well have died in early December and at this point Hilary also decided to withdraw. Tragic and very sad way to end up.

The last two paragraphs are very sad since she had to give up a child 60 years earlier.

‘At least one of the couple is likely to have still been alive on January 8, 2021. Gardaí discovered that a screenshot was taken that day on an Amazon Kindle found in their home.

The screenshot appears to have been a passage from The Light Between Oceans, a novel by M.L. Stedman about a childless couple who found a baby girl in a washed up dinghy and decided to raise her as their own.’

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879152#Comment_120879152

Folie a deux. Not as rare as one might think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_%C3%A0_deux

Though granted wariness of the Irish health system is not entirely delusional and somewhat based on rational grounds tbh.

Hotblack Desiato

Nothing rational about being afraid the health system is going to kill you so deciding to beat them to it.

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880461#Comment_120880461

The Irish health system can be quite a shock for people used to the NHS their entire lives. I’m not sure what it is like in the UK or elsewhere but I have seen the tendency to infantilise the elderly here too.

looksee

The couple had lived in various places prior to coming to Ireland. When you are constantly moving there is a tendency to stay in the 'ex-pat' (not particularly English) community where friendships are quickly made, in the knowledge that it is an ever shifting community and you or they will move on. None of you have any family close by and people are relaxed about getting to know other people. Some life long friendships are made but inevitably you all end up in different countries so they are at best distant friendships.

Presumably by the time they got back to England they found themselves at a loss as old friends and family were scattered, dead or lost touch, so they did what they had done all their lives and moved to another country. But of course there was no readymade community to move into, quite the opposite, rural Ireland, like rural communities everywhere, is made up of extended families and old, established relationships. People will greet you in the street and ask after you but they are fully occupied with their own lives, there is little room for an elderly couple.

Meanwhile they were in poor health generally; from what I have seen and experienced the Irish health service is little different to the NHS these days. You are not going to find easy appointments with a friendly family doctor these days in the UK, the Irish service is somewhat better in that regard. However they only need to have had the misfortune to have one of the less interested GPs or met with an indifferent consultant - and we all know there are some doozies around - to get a very poor impression of care. The stress of looking after a terminally ill husband when she was likely not in great health herself, and an already lonely, depressed and possibly despairing outlook was just too much.

Hotblack Desiato

No mention in that article about terminal illness, was it mentioned before? He died of cardiovascular illness according to the article (but of course could have had other conditions as well)

santana75

I find this whole story really sad and a depressing reflection on humanity. How can two people die in their own home and nobody notice for over a year? People look after their own family and maybe some very close friends, but thats as far as it extends. This phenomenon of people dying at home and not being discovered for years is becoming more and more common. I remember seeing a documentary about a woman in the uk who had been dead over 3 years before someone noticed. And the Irish healthcare system does treat the elderly like children, I've seen this happen, nurses talking to pensioners with disdain and a complete lack of respect. I know the other side of that is some patients can be absolute dickheads, but repaying evil with evil is not the answer. How can two people get to the point where they would rather die in their home than live? This world really is a wicked and evil place.