Regulations regarding gap under Fire Doors?

justanotheruser_

Hi All,

I recently purchased a new build which is nearing completion. There is a bedroom in the attic so all of the doors in the house are fire doors.

Currently there is a 30mm gap underneath all of these doors (between door and bare concrete floor). I am not getting the flooring provided by the builder (as they are charging an absurd price) so I've decided to handle the flooring on my own. I plan on going for LVT - which means that even after my flooring is down I'll probably have a 20mm gap underneath all of the doors which I think everybody could agree is excessive.

The builders are refusing to replace the doors unless I pay for them.

According to the Dublin City Fire Brigade website (note: I am not actually in Dublin), the max gap under fire doors should not exceed 8mm:

The door, or frame, should be fitted with an intumescent strip and cold smoke seal, normally on all four sides. The gap at the base of the door should not exceed 8mm

Do I have a leg to stand on here? I believe that the builders should be responsible for replacing the doors - as they were the ones that cut them far too short. Making the assumption that all purchases will install flooring that is over 20mm thick is just ridiculous.

FJMC

Depending on the fire door the gap can be up to 10mm.

Levelling compound and LVT may give you 14-18mm build up - so you are not too far away.

May have to decide to use more leveller or use threshold strips at each door.

30mm seems slightly excessive - normally about 20mm - but if builders are allowing for underlay and carpet or underlay and board or tiles they are probably OK.

Impossible to comment on who is right or wrong without more detail - drawings should really indicate finished floor levels.

Sales information could indicate allowance for floor finishes - or if purchaser knows they are using particular finishes at what point do you communicate that to agents or builder.

More critical is entrance door threshold - if you are only using a very thin floor finish your threshold upstand height may be exceeded.

Its all probably easily resolved with a levelling compound and/or threshold strips.

F

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058294219/regulations-regarding-gap-under-fire-doors

What was the flooring that what shown on the plans. That you had the builders remove from scope?

If they've installed the doors incorrectly, then they should foot the bill to make good. But if you've decided to change the design, then that cost should be on you. I'd be looking to avoid replace whole doors tbh.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534757#Comment_120534757

20mm wouldn't be enough for most flooring materials. The undercut needs to co-ordinate with the specified. Builder was likely working to a nominated specification.

dbas

All fire doors have a spec sheet which will say the Max gap allowable.

Goes up to ten mm but it'll say so on the spec sheet.

Tgd B fire safety is the reg it needs to comply with

Tgd F ventilation asks for ten mm to allow air to move between rooms, but the fire reg is not important.

It's the builders responsibility to comply with the regs

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120542659#Comment_120542659

Two things

1. When the client decides to forgo the builders specification and install their own flooring, they then become the defacto "builder" and:

2. Ultimately the responsibility to comply with building regulations is on the building owner.

Ronney

The house would have to comply with Building Regs when completed and submitted to building control.

Will you be fitting the floor after the close of the sale? If so Builder will have to give house to you in a compliant state. This is usually done by fitting saddle board at the threshold which you could lift and place on top of your finished floor.

justanotheruser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120541877#Comment_120541877

Flooring is an 'Optional Extra' - so realistically I did not remove anything from the scope. Reviewing the spec sheet attached to the contract there is a section for 'Optional Extras' which includes Tiling for Kitchen, Dining and Hallway, Timber Flooring for Living Room, Carpets for stairs, landings and bedrooms, and other things like built in appliances etc..

In the contract itself, it states the following:

All Extras and or variations to the attached specifications are to be agreed in writing

with the Contractor and these extras and cost to the Purchaser to be confirmed in

writing and signed by the Purchaser. If this Agreement is not made in writing and

confirmed by the Purchaser, it shall be assumed that no extras are to apply.

Considering that flooring was an Extra - and I did not agree to any extras I don't believe I should be held responsible. If I was to foot the cost of replacing the doors I would essentially just be getting penalised for not paying for the builders 'optional' extras which is just ridiculous.

justanotheruser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545872#Comment_120545872

I will not be fitting flooring before closing the sale. I hope to close the sale - and then work on furnishing and getting it ready to move into over the next month or so.

blackbox

I don't see how the builder could be expected to anticipate how thick the flooring you chose was going to be.

I expect that they'll fit a saddle board and leave the rest up to you.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120542659#Comment_120542659

The last line is incorrect. It is the owners obligation. They often do that through the employ of professional advice - which professionals carry PI insurance. It would also be in the builders contract to comply with all code. But an owners instruction would clear them of that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552259#Comment_120552259

You aren't being held responsible. You simply aren't able to make changes for free. The part you quote literally backs up the builder here.

variations to the attached specifications are to be agreed in writing with the Contractor and these extras and cost to the Purchaser to be confirmed in writing and signed by the Purchaser.

Changing the fire door spec prior after installation is clearly a variation. You could have possibly changed it prior to the Fire door being ordered. The change is originating in the decision to install LVT, which is a post contract change. You could probable solve this without changing doors Floor levels can come up, but consider the stair landing carefully. A 20mm high top step is a hazard

Ronney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552269#Comment_120552269

If that is the case the builder should supply saddle boards to ensure the house complies with Regs at time of sale. They submit a completion notice to Building Control to say the house is complete and built to regs.

Building control can and do come out at this point to inspect before validating the submission. Legally your solicitor shouldn't let you close the sale without this.