licensee agreement

hello2020

hello, what to write in a rental agreement for a room in an owner occupied house?

does one need to register with RTB for renting a room in their own house?

godtabh

a licensee doesnt need a licensee agreement. Its not the same as a tennant. You dont need to register with RTB.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058293816/licensee-agreement

You don’t need a rental agreement and it’s not a tenancy so no need to register

hello2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120515521#Comment_120515521

thanks a lot for getting back on this.. so we can just have a verbal agreement or should we write down the conditions for rent advance , notice to leave & house rules etc?

You can write them down if you want, or you can tell the renter verbally, if they break the rules, kick them out, they are guests in your house.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058293816/licensee-agreement

If you are renting a room in your home I would not be giving any agreement in writing because you don't need to. You can make a verbal agreement and be very clear on the rules

Girl Geraldine

You can give a written agreement if you want. On the face of it that is a good way to do it. BUT..... it would actually be a cuter move to not have it, because it would be something a licencee will hold over you in a dispute. If you just have a verbal deal you have more flexibility.

Anyway, it is a licenceee arrangement. You can fúck the tenant out on their ear at a moment's notice for any or no reason. You could not like the way they chew their cornflakes at the table, and that would be reason enough to kick them out.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120517236#Comment_120517236

You can't kick out a lodger except in very rare circumstances. You can only use force if it is reasonable to do so which it almost never is.

dennyk

You really should put something in writing so that there's a clear record of the agreement between you and your lodger. Assuming you aren't planning to screw over your lodger, it's to your advantage as well as theirs to have a clear written agreement in place outlining the terms of the license agreement (e.g. the deposit amount, the rent, how and when it should be paid, how shared bills will be handled, the house rules, and ideally some reasonable notice period for termination by either party). If there is ever a dispute or your lodger violates the terms, being able to point to a written agreement will be to your advantage.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518679#Comment_120518679

You can ask them to leave with "reasonable notice". In the case of a serious issue reasonable could be less than 24 hours.

As others have said here, don't do a written agreement OP. There's a risk that doing so could contract away your rights

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518714#Comment_120518714

Asking them to leave is one thing, kicking them is another. If they refuse to leave reasonable force can be used. It is unlikely kicking would be considered reasonable.

dennyk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518726#Comment_120518726

Guess maybe English isn't your first language, but "kicking someone out" is just an idiom; it doesn't (usually) mean literally punting them out the front door like an oversized football.

Girl Geraldine

Don't assume nationality or language proficiency. CH may be autistic. It is prevalent on these fora.

Anyway, yeah kicking out is not literal usually. Circumstances that would justify a physically force expulsion of a licencee would be rare. It would have to be that no other reasonable method is workable. An example would be if the licencee was aggressive and the owner had a legitimate and immediate fear for his/her safety or the safety of others in the house, or was genuinely fearful that the licencee was about to do serious damage to the house - eg they were threatening to trash the place or burn it down. It would have to be a situation that would warrant the Gardai, and ideally the Gardai should be called before, during or as soon as is possible after the act of kicking out.

You could only use such force as is necessary and proportionate to the situation.

If a deranged licencee was making a believable threat to harm you, or another in the house, or burn the house, you would be entitled to take proportionate defensive steps to man-handle them out the door, and possibly restrain them if necessary until the gardai arrive. However, you would not be entitled to go on the offensive and kick seven colours of shíte out of them on the footpath outside once you got them out - even if they deserved it. That would be going beyond a proportionate use of force.

You could not physically force remove a licenceee from the house because you "had it up to here" with them, or you just had enough of their shíte, nomatter how unreasonable it is.

Claw Hammer

Fro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518751#Comment_120518751

From the Oxford dictionary

1. strike or propel forcibly with the foot.
2. "I kicked the ball up into the air"
3. Similar:
4. boot
5. 
   
6. punt
7. 
   
8. strike with the foot
9. propel
10. 
    
11. drive
12. 
    
13. knock
14. 
    
15. send
16. 
    
17. blooter
18. 
    
19. put the boot into
20. 
    
21. welly
22. 
    

• 
  

1. 2.
2. INFORMAL
3. succeed in giving up (a habit or addiction).
4. "smokers may soon have new help to kick the habit"

Kick means what it means.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520217#Comment_120520217

How do you converse on any meaningful level if you can't distinguish between a literal meaning and an idiom? It is Spock-like, I don't mean you are a Vulcan, merely that he can't distinguish that words are not always to be taken literally.

For clarity, I wasn't advocating physically booting the renter in the backside, I was saying that they could be ejected from the owners house as they have no tenancy rights. God, there's a sentence I never thought I'd have to type.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518679#Comment_120518679

Nope , you can kick them out

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520264#Comment_120520264

I'm hoping I get a rundown of what the literal meaning of ejected is now 🤣

The_Conductor

Ok guys- quit it. Next one who tries to give an English lesson will get a short posting holiday from the forum.

Girl Geraldine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520217#Comment_120520217

Look man, if you have Aspergers or whatever, then fair enough sorry for your troubles. But otherwise, get off your your high horse.

*** "high horse" is also an idiom by the way. I am not suggesting you are up on a horse of 15+ hands.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120521976#Comment_120521976

Say what you mean and mean what you say!

L1011

This is not a linguistics forum

hello2020

Thanks for all replies. New tenant/ licencee want to have rent receipt as below. Is this okay to give?

I, xxx [passport number] accept 000 cash today dd/mm/yy as €00 for rental deposit and €00 as first months rent for the room rental of xxxc, Dublin for xxx xx [passport number]

Rental start date:

Date of return of deposit:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120554583#Comment_120554583

I sincerely hope that the passport number is theirs, not yours, and even with that, I wouldn’t want to be retaining that type of data on a licensee.

Just hand them a rent book, you can buy them in stationary shops and sign it each month when they pay.

hello2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120555031#Comment_120555031

thanks that's a fair point.. they proposed this format to have their and our passport no.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120555207#Comment_120555207

why do they need passport numbers?

PFunked

Hi,

My Dad is living in my wifes house and we live in my house. So my wifes house is my Dads sole residency now as he sold his house.

So about 4 years ago we all decided to rent out a room in my now dads house/sole residency, now my dad wants this person out of the house(long story)

He ask the person to vacate the property and gave 2 Months notice. This person when to the RTB claiming they are a tenant and open a dispute,

My wife and I collect the rent and deal with all my dads affairs, bills, insurance, LPT etc on his behalf as he elderly

My question is this person a tenant or licensee and what way will the RTB see this person as ?

Any ideas ?

Thanks

ohnonotgmail

As your wife doesn't live there they can't be a licensee.

tvjunki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660017#Comment_120660017

if they lived with your Dad for the 4 years they would have been a lodger. Once your Dad moved out they then become a tenant after 6 months.

If that person is the only one in the property and your Dad is not staying there or using one of the rooms most of then time you have a tenant and they have rights.

They have to wait 6 months and they have right as a tenant after your Dad moved out. After 6 months you have to give notice but for only certain reasons e.g. your dad moving back for sole use, you or siblings and certain members of your family will be moving in and they have to leave, you are selling or extensive refurbishment.. Check rtb for the rules as you have to have a signed legal declaration.

If they are becoming a problem such as anti social behaviour you can give a shorter notice but you have to register the tenancy, if no payment of rent you have to follow the rtb protocol.

If you have sold your fathers house you should have to given the tenant notice. Your solicitor and your auctioneer should have discussed this with you. Do you have sale agreed? Then give your tenant notice now and send a copy toRTB. You may have to wait for the tenant to leave. Hope your buyer can wait.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660093#Comment_120660093

Did dad move out?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660017#Comment_120660017

This is an interesting situation, is your dad considered a close family member of the owner, your wife? If the renter was renting a shared property with your dad or child, and you owned it, they would be a licensee, but how that pans out with your dad in your wife’s house is a quandary.

Best you can do is ask the RTB, or let us know how the RTB view the renter’s dispute, it’s an unusual twist in a license arrangement.

Claw Hammer

Who does the renter pay the rent to?

PFunked

My Dad is still in the house wants the other person out.

My wife and I collect the rent and deal with all my dads affairs, bills, insurance, LPT etc on his behalf as he elderly

PFunked

Thanks for all the replies

PFunked

My Dad is living in the house with the renter over the last 4 years

My wife and I collect the rent and deal with all my dads affairs, bills, insurance, LPT etc on his behalf as he elderly

Claw Hammer

has the renter got a written agreement?

PFunked

No

callaway92

To be brutal about it, you've messed up big time here

The person is a tenant, since they are paying you rent. You can't just simply get him to leave now

PFunked

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666727#Comment_120666727

I'll let ye know the RTB outcome

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666727#Comment_120666727

Yes you can although the OP's wife will have to give them notice of eviction depending how long the person is living there on the grounds that she wants it for sole use for a family member. - she'll need to check if father-in-law qualifies.

The RTB may also see the person you want out as your father's licencee, so with almost zero rights.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667753#Comment_120667753

He’s not the fathers licensee though. That’s pretty clear from what the OP has said

Pretending it’s the fathers’ licensee would be fraud

Sarn

If the rent a room relief was being claimed this is something else that would need to be taken into account. My understanding is that the father would have been able to claim it if the payment was made to him.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666727#Comment_120666727

The simple thing to do is serve a notice on the father and the renter to vacate. The father can be let back in again.

mrslancaster

Not clear here OP. Do you and your wife own both houses? If you're joint owners is your father covered here (h)?

If there's no need to register with the RTB and your father is not a tenant, then would the housemate be a lodger/licensee of your father in that situation?

Application of Act 2(h):

Ginger83

Did your wife or you ever live in this house with your dad?

This is a tricky situation as in order for a person to be a licensee the owner must live in the house as their PPR.

This is not the case so both your dad and the other person will probably be viewed as tenants by the RTB because the owner does not reside there.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120675476#Comment_120675476

Not at all true. A tenant can rent a property and let rooms out to licensees. The only thing that's different compared to being an owner with licensees is that after 6 months the licensee of a tenant can ask to be added to the lease.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120675943#Comment_120675943

The only problem with your statement is that this is not possible if the OP's dad is not a tenant. This needs to be established.

Who took on the other tenant / licensee / guest? The OP, his wife or his dad? This information and proof of this will be key for the RTB.

tvjunki

So wife owns a house and your father lives there with another person. If your father was collecting the rent then they would be your fathers lodger and they would not have any rights. You and your wife collect the rent so you are the landlord. The lodger is actually a tenant after 6months.

If you given them notice you have only a few options on why they are asked to leave. You need to read through your options. Refurb, sale of the property within 9months, family member moving in(e.g you or your wife or your child or another parent will be moving in).

There is a reason why your father wants them to leave. Find out why and you can make a call then. If your father wants them to leave due to antisocial behavour then you have to go through rtb process. The time is shorter but you need proof. If your father is in fear then contact citizens information for the next steps.

Claw Hammer

Did the o/p ever live in the house with his wife?

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681714#Comment_120681714

I think the OP needs to say if he is the joint owner of the house with his wife. If he is, then his parent/s or his wifes parent/s can live in the property and have a lodger without any requirement for RTB registration. If that is the situation then I don't see how it makes any difference who collects money from the lodger on behalf of the father - it could be any family member or Joe Bloggs down the road. Are you saying that an elderly person can't get help with their financial affairs from a family member?

Also, if there is no registered RTB tenancy required between the parent and the OP/wife, then I don't understand how the lodger can become a tenant after 6 months.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120675476#Comment_120675476

There are allowances for family members of the owner. Being lead tenants and having licencees

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685441#Comment_120685441

That is the variable, is a FIL the owner’s family?