South Australia Moves to Ban Bow Hunting

Zxthinger

South Australia is making moves to ban or phase out Bow hunting in the territory.

Crossbow and bow will still be allowed with no licence but hunting will cease.

https://youtu.be/zD-kriOQb7s

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058292943/south-australia-moves-to-ban-bow-hunting

I can't understand bow hunting when better tools are available..

Chiparus

I hunted in South Australia, never met anyone who bow hunted - tended to be in states where there were a lot of pigs .

Problem is that there are lots of Boguns hunting with target arrows and pictures of kangaroos with target arrows sticking out of them.

The knee jerk is to ban the hunters , not the illegal activity lot hunting with target hunters

https://au.news.yahoo.com/kangaroo-survives-after-being-shot-by-arrow-102845257.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACEY05h1UkH8EoqZ4rdwtCsZRMhUu4Be_3NLmlVwkJqZji3nm4m_BX7lIma3Cr_je5-JL45UxKHWDIdRTUunRChKxt7j0mQI6ZE89EUqTrU6k1g_4lJxMWAn6DFdbby1CZFbi70rcvz9s2aNOuFu59t82btLb5SCiRuyu9KkMB_m

Zxthinger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494198#Comment_120494198

The report states that shot per shot retrieval rates are the same between bows and guns.

Granted that I’d expect more guns are in use and yes, they be more effective as they offer extended range over bows but I dare say that the 30-35yard stalk is what attracts hunters..

it’s called hunting! Not shopping! Lol

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494198#Comment_120494198

A lot harder and difficult than firearms hunting. Some will say it is more sporting as you have to be a better stalker,pay more attention to shape,sound,smell and shine to get up close to put in an arrow or bolt.

Zxthinger

Its similar to what happened in Ireland. Some clown shot some animals with target arrows, I think it was sheep in wicklow or at at least that the story i was told.

Despite the fact that shooting at someone else's farming stock was illegal anyway the practice of bow hunting was just banned forever.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494198#Comment_120494198

Some people can’t understand hunting when you can go to the supermarket. But obviously we are aware that the traditional way of providing food, takes skills, effort, and respects that eating meat requires animals to be harvested.

I’d see bow hunting as taking some of those concepts to the next level. It’s a much greater challenge. I respect that a lot.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494759#Comment_120494759

For the sake of clarity, It’s already illegal to hunt kangaroo with bows (including with hunting broadheads)

Bow hunting is/was permitted for introduced/feral animals with a hunting permit. This proposal would remove that permission in SA.

Bow Hunting will still be permitted on private land by landowners (or people on behalf if the land owner) where feral animals are causing damage to damage to crops, stock or property.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120499159#Comment_120499159

i assume the retrieval rate would refer to the concern that you would just badly wound an animal? i.e. that a bullet is more likely to result in a kill?

Zxthinger

The facts are that the retrieval rate was quoted as being equal for both harvesting methods.. Other studies I have read place BH at the top with higher returns..

All too often, long ranges rifle shots see animals lost to the bush. The BANG makes the run further. Bow hunted animals will often return to grazing even after they’ve been shot with an arrow..

Anyway. It’s only academic here in good old Ireland.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547534#Comment_120547534

Was there ever a history of bow hunting in Ireland? Be that in the middle ages when bows were a common military weapon (up to 1500s). Or in modern times, say post 1800?

Zxthinger

Well they killed off all the reds and aate wild boar so unless it was all done with spears and slings then bow hunting or trapping must have been used. I have several pieces of worked flint from 4.5k yrs ago that are consistent with arrow head manufacturing.

Ye dont see reference to archery in Irish culture but it had to be there.

Norman invaders and Viking utilised the bow so it was there but it’s not listed beside the Salmon of knowledge lol

Mellor

Well Reds and Elk went extinct about 10k years ago. They may have had arrows back then too. I assume dogs were a feature of the hunt too. I was thinking less about Palaeolithic flint arrows and more about bronze/iron ages and later. It makes sense they they were here. It was probably much later that they were beaten out of us. Can't let the natives carry weapons ;)

Chiparus

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40871414.html

Found occasionally

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120556688#Comment_120556688

Not really.The Irish were more dart throwers, and I don't mean those yokes you throw at a board down in the pub. These were about 3lb and about 2-foot long mini arrows that were thrown out of a sling-like affair. They were using them up to the 16th century with The Kearne against Elizabethan troops.

John Dymmok, who served in the retinue of the earl of Essex, Elizabeth I’s lord lieutenant of Ireland….“ . . a kind of footman, slightly armed with a sword, a target [round shield] of wood, or a bow and sheaf of arrows with barbed heads, or else three darts, which they cast with a wonderful facility and nearness, a weapon more noisome to the enemy, especially horsemen than it is deadly”.

They are still mentioned in our Wildlife act as a prohibited method of taking game.

Did we have bows and arrows,of course? But we never developed it like the English did to make the English archer one of the deadliest forces on a medieval battlefield up to the invention of firearms on the battlefield. Also, the terrain in Ireland at the time wasn't very suitable to the B&A being used in warfare,as it was still mostly forest, and it was a nobleman's weapon that took a lot of time to master properly. So it's doubtful that our peasent ancestors were out and about poaching the local lord's deer either with B&As as the Normans had probably brought in too the first game seasons to Ireland under "the law of venison".Basically death for you and fam for eating or stealing the lord's deer.

Post-Elizabethan times up to independence.It's really hard to find much info on hunting here in Ireland as with the destruction of the great houses and breaking up of the estates, many records of gamekeepers and poaching incidents, or court cases mentioning poaching,if there were any are lost forever. Courtesy of the civil war shelling of the 4 courts and Mick and the lads burning down the customs house.Im sure some local Squire or Lordship did take a flake at a deer with a B&A on his estate.but what was going to stop him? But was it common in Ireland's history any type of bow hunting? No!

Mellor

@Grizzly 45 This more or less what I was thinking above. I always think of the longbow as a very English weapon.

Did we have bows and arrows,of course? But we never developed it like the English did to make the English archer one of the deadliest forces on a medieval battlefield up to the invention of firearms on the battlefield. Also, the terrain in Ireland at the time wasn't very suitable to the B&A being used in warfare,as it was still mostly forest, and it was a nobleman's weapon that took a lot of time to master properly.

Zxthinger

ref to depictions of bows and arrows for 1500s in Irish

https://youtu.be/ReJIDiYMOio

Zxthinger

Open yer mind..

https://youtu.be/nADvv2wNJCY

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120585493#Comment_120585493

But sure bullets and arrows do the job completely differently so penetration tests are a bit pointless.

There's a lot of studies that highlight high wound/low recovery rates:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130918200616/http%3A//www.tuffhead.com/ashby_pdfs/ashby%20ours/PDF%20Arrow%20Lethality%201.wps.pdf

I'm sure bows can be successful but my main point is, firearms are better. I doubt yer man's guide is running about with a bow. Regarding the challenge of stalking that close, sure one can limit themselves to a given distance with a rifle. I'm sure people wouldn't be happy, legalities aside, from an ethical point of view if I was to advocate hunting deer with a .22 Hornet. But sure it's grand lads, I'm keeping shots within thirty yards, be grand.

Zxthinger

It’s not the same.. apples to apples..

BH shots are limited to 30-35 yards for accuracy and shot placement.

When a broad head cleaves through the vitals it’s every bit as effective as a bullet if not more effective…

Retrieval rates are probably a metric that correlated to target distance with long range rifle shots resulting it more lost game.. etc etc

I perceive the issue as follows

A typical BH would general be versed in some tracking skills but as such firearm based hunters don’t believe they need this skill.. etc etc or at least it not a skill set that demanded by their rifle touting peers..

As for the guide, I’m sure it’s Double barrel rifle or similar.

I suppose on dangerous game, the use of a bow might not be the safest path but sure it’s called dangerous!!

The reality here is they are banned form use but it was poor move especially now that we are over ran with deer and especially when you consider the potential for offsetting the ownership of more firearms etc.

The main thing to remember here is that other civilised counties permit it so it’s not internationally outlawed.. lol These same counties also cite minimum calibres and energy levels similar to our own here yet they also cite minimum bow weights and some require hunter training.. It allows for harvesting from areas not suited to firearms and because of the extra difficulty and lower chances of even get a potential shot opportunity, they give you an extended season..

John_Rambo

Not necessary hunting, but very interesting.

Welsh bowmen were the champions (according to my obsession with historical reading). Their bows were over 6 foot tall, made from the heart of yew trees (imported & not from England weirdly) and were almost impossible to draw back for normal people, the Welsh bowmen used their ankle to hook the bow & practised heavy practice musculature to draw. They had a tip called a bodkin that could penetrate the armour of a knight. The arrows were made of ash and the string of silk or hemp and they were treated like a modern day firearm, as in they greased them, looked after them carefully & didn't get them wet.

These were serious weapons & were allegedly banned by the English at one stage & if found the owner was put to death. Some of them took up to four years to make and the fletchlings were cut carefully to spin when released like an early form of riffling. The bowmen had serious musculature prejudiced forms, as in their drawing side (left or right) had huge muscles compared to their non drawing side.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120597945#Comment_120597945

Fair points, a lot of my prejudice probably comes from that fact it's not normalized here.

Zxthinger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120597977#Comment_120597977

Yew bows are not all heart.. the nature of yew wood is such that is provides two different wood types with sap wood on the back and heart wood to the belly.. if it’s not made like this then it’s not a yew bow.

The Welsh were also renowned for using Wytch Elm for the bows and this was not as complex to form..