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Every type of food is unsustainable now

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,970 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    in the 60s and 70s cars, cows, and flying weren't being consumed at anywhere near the rate they are now, so you could just think "aww isn't that nice they're trying to do something for the environment without infringing on my life in any way". They would have a lot more to be concerned with now than just hunting etc.

    You'd swear the "green" movement was harming people's lifestyles the way people go on. We are flying more than ever, there's more cars than ever on the roads than Ireland and more per capita than ever, we're producing more and more meat and dairy, and the airports are busier than they ever have been. You're grand, no one's taking anything away from you.

    People merely try and suggest maybe we should take a moment and look at home we are consuming, for the sake of our own country and the world, and try and do things a little differently for the sake of future generations, and you all lose your sh*t.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Well before chemical fertiliser the world population was much smaller and even so famines were a regular occurance.Also people spent a much greater proportion of their income on food compared to nowadays.

    What's not to like ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Go work on a dairy farm for 1 year & you’ll see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭NattyO


    "You'd swear the "green" movement was harming people's lifestyles the way people go on"

    Carbon tax hike leaves people with 'impossible choice' between food and heat

    National herd halved and enough trees to cover Dublin five times over – what we must do to hit climate targets

    Radical plan to cut car use will focus on cities and be ‘mindful’ of rural communities, says Transport Minister Eamon Ryan

    Yeah, no lifestyle changes there at all. You'd want to be living under an ecologically-friendly rock in a leafy Dublin suburb, being kept in clover by a rich husband to think that "green" policies aren't harming the lifestyles of the little people.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,970 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Ok so no herd numbers haven't been touched and there are no plans to do so so I don't know where you're going with that, and the other link is Eamon saying that rural communities wont be affected by plans to cut car use.

    The car use thing is pretty simple though, we can't keep putting more and more cars on the road and have to make other options available, no way around that I'm afraid, space is limited.



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭NattyO


    "To hell with the poor, let them warm themselves in their EV's"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Id happily spend my money on quality healthy food that will sustain my health, the environment & keep farmers in business

    instead of most of the crap we have spend it on at the moment.

    over 20 Billion spent on healthcare in this country alone

    If we took 1 billion of that budget and put it to producing the best food possible im certain we wouldn’t need another 19 billion for healthcare.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭JDD


    Insects.

    Full of protein. In abundance. In the right environments reproduce like wildfire. Don't need to be farmed, as such.

    We already eat crab and lobster. They're basically just sea insects.

    Insects mixed in with sustainably farmed crops, and we've got protein, carbs and fat covered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,970 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    or we could just eat meat once or twice a week and more pulses and the likes which are very good for you



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭JDD


    How does eating insects result in desertification? Surely we could eat our own local insects, without actually reducing their numbers in the natural environment to feed birds, spreads seeds and what not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    I daresay I might know a tad more about livestock than you but perhaps not.

    Where are all these dairy farmers pumping their stock full of antibiotics?

    Better tell glanbia dairygold kerry etc so they might upgrade their testing facilities to catch them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    If everybody in the world ate insect’s & if every cow sheep and horse was gone, desertification will increase rapidly & humans will be f u c h e d

    We need animals to keep the land healthy



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Stop now lad what age are you 7

    it’s standard practice on every farm

    nobody is asking the question why we need to use them. What’s causing the ailments to that livestock that we need to use them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Jack98


    Wow, what an ignorant comment.

    Livestock the same as humans get sick from time to time and are administered antibiotics the same as humans would be.

    There is clear withdrawal periods for all of these antibiotics for meat or dairy consumption which is adhered to by farmers who administer the antibiotics before reentering the food chain.

    Also to add as mentioned above meat and dairy is tested rigorously by processors to make sure no antibiotics enter the food chain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Yes i no all that but i still strongly believe allot of antibiotic use / dosing etc it isn’t necessary

    Why do we have organic so if the conventional way of doing it is grand?

    why is it so highly regulated on organic systems? must be something they aren’t telling us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Jack98


    Because conventional systems rely on animals being healthy in order to maximize production.

    Animals in conventional farming receive antibiotics but are not pumped with hormones as they are in different parts of the world to grow in Ireland. If this was the case here I think you would have a relevant argument but agricultural produce in Ireland is produced to a very high standard compared to other parts of the world. No doubt if one has ever traveled to the states or other such countries it is clear to see the difference in quality where animals are exposed to such hormones.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    I never said anything about growth hormone’s or the likes being used, im saying in conventional farming system’s there is an over reliance on medications & chemistry science’s.

    Farming has to be based on biological practice’s.

    But i will agree with our welfare standard’s are very good, a lot of room for improvement though but by no means the worst in the classroom.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Old enough to know better but anyways. Its not standard practice on every farm and anyone who thinks it so is deluded.Antibiotics are used on animals when they need them ie in plain simple language when they are sick.

    Animals get sick.Thats hardly startling information I would think.Do you think if we did things differently no animal would get sick?


    As regards organic farming; we have that because its a belief system in the main,not an alternative to normal farming.Yield and return is so poor that without support far far in excess of conventional ag. its a total non runner.

    Antibiotics are fully allowed in organics ,the withdrawal period doubles thats all.Same for wormers etc.


    And yes there seems to be a lot of stuff you weren't told or perhaps ?????



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Your talking absolute scutter lad.

    Organics is a belief system.

    do you Wonder why that was started? Because people are blaming the conventional way of farming for allot of our problem’s & there right.

    Before all these chemical’s came into the market in the past 100 year’s or whatever all we had was organic & it sustained us & the environment for hundred’s of year’s.

    Since they came on stream there’s been ecological Armageddon.

    And antibiotics, dosing, fertility enhancers etc are all very common practices used on farm’s in Ireland. it’s institutional belief & marketing that we need these when history tells us we can get on fine without them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    This is holistic management planned grazing. https://youtu.be/8vKvDib_PKw



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,970 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    jmayo has usually shown up by now to tear us all new arseholes is he OK?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    I am talking scutter because I understand organics to be a belief system or I am talking scutter and organics is a belief system?


    Why/Where did organics/green movement start ?

    I always thought it had its roots in 1930's European fascism with the Nazi fascination of getting Germany back to a healthy ,rural based,clean living society.So basically a middle class dream like the current fad.

    People blame a lot of things on other things but that doesn't mean they are correct although blind faith is a great thing to have.

    Again where is this ecological Armageddon happening?Not here anyways as I look out the window place looks like it did 20/30/50 years ago.Bit more grass and no wet boggy bits and all the scrub is gone but then again all those nice bio diverse hedgerows were planted generations ago and aint natural either.

    Organics would sustain us if (A) population was 10% of current one (B)people were prepared to spend 50% plus of their income on food (C)people were prepared to eat a very bland and unvaried diet.

    If you can tell me how to prevent sheep dying of acute liver fluke without dosing then I am all ears or what should I do with a bullock with pneumonia instead of giving it a course of antibiotics.

    Yes I do use both antibiotics and worm doses but then perhaps I am brainwashed by big pharma and instead should leave them to get sick and/or waste away from a chronic worm burden ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Do you think the conventional way of farming as of right now is going to sustain us, our environment & biodiversity for a couple hundred year’s?

    I don’t think so anyway.

    I told you how we can feed people sustainably, only through holistically managed livestock back on the land in Seasonal rainfall environment’s.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit



    This is serious serious stuff.

    We need to get real here with what we’re going & change before it’s too late because once it’s gone, it’s very hard to bring back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    To you perhaps but not to me.Whats the issue with 60% of our land as grassland ?


    What exactly would you like to bring back ?Could you perhaps suggest a date in history we should revert to ? If I changed the place here like it was in 2000,1980,1940,1900,1850 perhaps ?Griffiths Valuation maps show the farm here c.1850 with fields somewhat similar to today,probably less than 1k of hedges gone in that time.All the wet land shown at that time is drained and productive grass or tillage ground now.What exactly do you think I should do ?Plant it with trees ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Well I do know organic farming aint gonna feed us for sure.Buzzwords like sustainability,biodiversity,holistically managed etc etc are all meaningless nonsense in my opinion but you are free to disagree.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Prove me wrong Paddy.

    You asked for proof that farming management & practices are some of the top contributors to Ecological & environmental damage & i gave it to you.

    It’s thinking like that that’s got us in serious trouble now. Now you show me how your way Of farming is sustainable.



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