Council Plan to build public road through private estate

wagonwheel2

I'm not sure this is the right forum but i am hoping it is. I have reached out to two councilors and one TD in relation to my query and have not gotten anwsers.

We recently noticed that the draft town plan for our local area includes a public road being built through our estate. Nobody in our estate has been consulted about this to our knowledge.

The estate was started in circa 2016 and completed in 2019. There's aroind 160 houses in the estate. When we bought our house in 2018, there was nothing on the plans that stated there would be a public road built through it.

It's a private estate and has not been taken over by the council yet. The public road they are intending to build goes by a playground and a number of green areas where all the children play. The houses on that road have no wall boundaries and are bordered by hedges only, so really very open. The footpath also is in line the road itself.

My query is, can a council build a road through an estate without a consultation with the residents in the estate? Do we have any legal ground that would stand to us that would stop this going ahead?

Peregrinus

When you say that the estate "has not been taken over by the council yet", that suggests that you have expected all along that at some point the roads and services will be taken in charge. Or were you expecting the roads and services to be maintained indefinitely by an estate company, funded by annual contributions from yourself and the other property owners?

If you were expecting the roads to be taken in charge at some point, that would make them all public roads. So what is the local government proposing to do now that you were not expecting? Are they proposing to construct a new road where currently there is no road at all (and, if so, how is on which the road is to be built used/occupied now)?

wagonwheel2

Hi, thanks for your reply. I do not know what the future entails in regards to the council taking over the estate, this just seems like what normally happens in this area. i am not part of the residents committee so don't have the details on this. (I am going through cancer treatment at the moment so joining the resident's committee is not something i plan on doing yet.) We pay fees for grass cutting etc but this is not to a property management company, rather to a fund set up by the resident's committee.

The council are planning on rerouting some of the traffic from the town through our estate by building a new road through a large unused field, that is adjacent to our estate, then joining this road to one of the residential roads here.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486572#Comment_120486572

So it seems that contrary to what you said in your first post, that they're not planning on building a public road through your estate? And that instead, there might instead be a public road built through a field that adjoins your estate, that simply somehow joins an existing road through your estate?

Where exactly it would join might be relevant here. But either way, if it's a draft Town Plan, there'll be a process whereby you and other residents can make submissions on it. Put up a strong enough case, and they may reconsider.

walterking

Unless you are paying annual management fees (insurance, lighting, road upkeep, drains upkeep etc) and are part of an OMC and the residents own all the public space, you are not a "private" estate.

That the "taking in charge" has not happened yet is of little consequence

elperello

Is there just one road entrance/exit to your estate at the moment?

Victor

"Nobody in our estate has been consulted about this to our knowledge." - you are being consulted now. Were you expecting consultation about the consultation?

Peregrinus

What Uncle Pierre said. The whole point of issuing a draft town plan is so that interested or affected parties can make observations on it before it is adopted. So, yes, you will be consulted about this — you are being consulted right now.

There will be a consultation period, probably stated on the local government's website but if you can't find it there just ring the offices and they'll tell you. Be sure to get your observations in before the consultation period ends.

Observations from residents' associations, etc, usually carry more weight than those from individual citizens, so try to get together with your neighbours on this. Also liaise with your councillors; they will help you make your observations most effectively and of course will be in a position to advocate for you when the decision on adopting the town plan comes to be made.

Also what waterking says — from the sounds of it you are not living in a "private estate"; just a new estate where the roads and services have yet to be taken in charge. Representations based on the supposed private character of the estate will probably not carry much weight; focus instead on the suitability of the existing estate road to act as a connection between two major roads, the likely volume of through traffic, safety concerns, etc.

wagonwheel2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489838#Comment_120489838

It's not contrary to what i said. They are planning on making a residential road in an estate, a public one by joining a road to it.

We have made submissions, along with numerous others in our estate. There is a meeting to meet councilors in regards to this so i wanted to ask any questions about this before hand

.thanks for your input.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490498#Comment_120490498

Okay. Whatever about the semantics of "residential" road, "public" road, building a new road through your estate, or building a new road through an adjoining field and somehow joining it to an existing road, fact remains that this is a draft Town Plan, and you're being consulted on it now in the normal manner.

To go back to your original question, there are probably no legal grounds to absolutely and fundamentally prevent the plan from going ahead, but the plan could be redrawn if submissions and representations carry enough weight.

Peregrinus

It's already a public road — as in, anyone can enter it and use it. It's just that, as currently laid out, it's not much use except for accessing the adjacent properties, so that's pretty much all it's used for.

The council propose to connect it to another road which will make it useful as a thoroughfare - a road that you might travel along, not because you have any interest in the properties that it directly serves, but because it's a convenient route to somewhere more remote. The forseeable result is an increase in the volume of traffic and (possibly) the mix of traffic types.

So, yeah. I can see why the OP would be concerned, and would want to make representations. But, the thing is, this isn't an unusual state of affairs. Pretty much any road-building or road-altering plan will have effects like this for some group of people, whose concerns will be entirely legitimate. The unpleasant task the local government has is to balance those concerns against the wider public benefit of having a road system that enables people to make journeys outside their own immediate neighbourhood.

wagonwheel2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490583#Comment_120490583

Thank you for your reply.

wagonwheel2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490551#Comment_120490551

Thank you for your reply.

loyatemu

it seems unlikely that they gave permission for the estate without some idea that the road into the estate would eventually be extended to become a through-route - have you looked at the previous version of the development plan? Councils usually plan these routes decades in advance.

There's a number of estates near me that were built as cul-de-sacs but later had the main road opened up to through traffic, but in every case the through-route was on the development plan already.

As mentioned above, if the plan is a draft then it's for consultation, and this is the consultation. But if the road was also on a previous plan then they're unlikely to remove it from the new one as they'll consider it already approved. You should concentrate your efforts into making sure it is built to current standards for a road through a built up area , with appropriate speed limit and priority for pedestrians and cyclists (see the DMURS design manual that councils are supposed to follow but routinely ignore).

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490583#Comment_120490583

It’s currently a “public place” not a “public road”. Until the council assumes responsibility for its maintenance and upkeep, it is not a “public road”. Being a “public place” for RTA confers no power or n the LA.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493061#Comment_120493061

Edit.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493061#Comment_120493061

You're right, of course. But the key point is that, as a road, it's public; anyone can use it. It's not in any sense a "private road", like a road on private land to which access is controlled by the landowner.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that any representations the OP wants to make should not focus on the supposed public/private character of the road. That will cut no ice. Focus on the suitability of the road, safety issues, effect on the environment and amenity of residents, that kind of thing.

wagonwheel2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494032#Comment_120494032

That's what the residents have been doing so far. There are alot of young children in the estate who play freely in the boundaries of it. In particular, the playground which this road runs by.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058292639/council-plan-to-build-public-road-through-private-estate

Is this Lis Na Dara by any chance? Same thing happening there.

wagonwheel2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494126#Comment_120494126

It's not, it's an estate in Kildare Town.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494032#Comment_120494032

It be presumably is a road on private land, who ever owns the freehold or leasehold interest of the common parts of the development. A lot of private estates are not now taken in charge by council’s so it should be a more labourious process to decide to open up an entry for a road built upon public land to create a cut through what is otherwise a dead end.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120495856#Comment_120495856

From what we read in this thread the Council are expected to take the roads and services in charge at some point, because there doesn't seem to be any structure set up through which the property owners will fund their maintenance. And they will probably do that at the time when they open up this road to turn it into a thoroughfare, if not before.

TooTired123

People buy houses in estates and for some there is total confusion about exactly what it is they bought.

As soon as I hear the descriptor “private estate” I know what’s coming next…..

brownej

I'd say you are going to be out of look here.

Looks like the road was included on the Kildare development plan in 2012 page 83

It was also noted on the planning grant for the Oaktree estate. Aspects of the development were declined based on the kildare town development plan for the road.

The builders knew this was the case when they built the estate. Its all in the public record.