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Berlin Marathon 2023 (24 September)

  • 05-04-2023 10:30am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,595 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Time to start up a thread for Berlin 2023 - who else is in?

    Have not made travel arrangements yet but have a couple of accommodation options reserved on Booking.com.

    Looking forward to tackling the Berlin course again, having learned a good bit about marathon running since I did this race previously in 2014.

    Let the preparations begin...

    Gut Laufen!



«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Good to see this thread up and running. I'm in and I've flights and accommodation booked. I was nice and organized and got myself a decent price for a hotel within walking distance from the start/finish line. Flights still worked out quite expensive though. I'm flying out on Saturday morning and back on Monday.

    I've been to Berlin a few times over the years and absolutely love the place so really looking forward to this one. It was the thoughts of getting a guaranteed entry for Berlin that pushed me on during my last marathon block. I've kept the mileage honest since then and my times are improving at the shorter distances so I'll be targeting a decent PB if all goes well.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How did ye get your spots? Via the lottery? GFA? Pay full whack?


    Just wondering, as I want to do this in the future. I've tried the lottery with no luck, and will continue to try, but just wondering what the best method is



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Tried the lottery for years but finally got in as a "fast runner" after breaking sub 2:45 last year in Amsterdam.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭scotindublin


    Thanks for setting up the thread D, I am on the Berlin bandwagon this year aswell.

    Flights (out Friday morning and back Monday afternoon) and accommodation booked, staying at Motel One Tiergarten as a few folks from the club had stayed there previously.

    I got in on the GFA thanks mostly to bumping up to the O45 this year and running a shade under 2.53 in Chicago last year. Didn't hear of anyone getting in through the lottery.

    Will be focusing on shorter stuff until July and crank on with mara training then.

    C



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thanks for the feedback regarding how ye all got a spot.

    In my head, I want to complete all the big 6 marathons eventually. Targeting 3:20 for my next marathon, so not sure if GFA will ever be achievable for me.

    Looks like I'll continue to enter all the lotteries, and every few years, bite the bullet, and pay for a spot through a tour group.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭scotindublin


    I am thinking of the big 6 aswell as a longer term plan, got the buzz after Chicago last year. Berlin in September and Boston April 24 will get me half way there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,595 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    I also got in on the age standards, based on a M60 3:19 time at Chicago last year. No one I know got in on the lottery either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Duanington


    I'm in, but feeling like an imposter now with all the GFA runners here ! (I took a chance on a charity place, which might add a little something to preparations).


    I've run Berlin before, love the event and the city - looking forward to getting back into marathon mode and obsessing over the smaller details.

    Haven't booked accommodation yet but I'll hopefully stay in the same hostel as last time.


    Transitioning to marathon prep from the end of May (although I've put plenty of miles into the tank over the last 4 months in preparation....for prep)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭sk8board


    I’m in too, I bought a bib-only ‘package’ through a TA. €225 premium over the standard ticket price, which was fine.

    the plan is to hit a BQ time, hopefully with some headroom

    Post edited by sk8board on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ooh, that doesn't sound too bad. What travel agent did you book that with?

    Could be tempted to apply that way next year



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭sk8board


    the official Uk agent, swinley travel. Contacted them over Christmas, and got the official registration about a month ago



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭The Davestator


    Hope everyone's training is going better than mine! Knee injury has meant little running over the past few weeks. Back up to 10k without pain this week. Have to balance getting the miles in with preventing a recurrence. I never had a time goal which is just as well as it could be a long day!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,595 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Less than six weeks away now. Nearly time to start cancelling those extra booking.com reservations. 😉 How’s everyone getting on? All good here, getting through the training well, some big weeks coming up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Yeah, it's looming ever closer. I'm getting on pretty well. I'm really feeling the strength that comes from marathon training on my easy runs where I feel like I could run all day.

    I had a bit of a wobble a few weeks back due to holidays and other stuff which meant that I missed a few days and then probably did too much trying to compensate. Stupid really and I ended up with a few niggles as a result but thankfully nothing that's stopped me training. I'm firmly back on schedule now though and looking forward to three more big weeks after this one before starting the taper.

    Would anyone fancy a pre-Berlin Boards social run in the Phoenix Park sometime? Maybe on the morning of the 10th or 17th for example?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14 boardscoffeepen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Yeah, why not. I've ten easy to do. Would Visitor Centre at 9am work ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14 boardscoffeepen


    Sure, works for me. Coffee shack/picnic pickup at 9am, yellow singlet with a water vest. If it's 10 miles I might cut away early as I've a few km to get to the visitor's centre.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,595 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    I won't join on Sun as I have a fairly specific long run to do and the time doesn't really suit, but good luck!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Race details arrived this evening. It's getting real.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,595 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Thanks for the heads up - had gone into my spam folder.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14 boardscoffeepen


    Sorry, in case you don’t see my other thread I just got scheduled for work. See you in the Tiergarten!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭The Davestator


    I've never been as ill prepared for a marathon. 1 x 25k run about 3 weeks ago and aside from that, knee injury has flared up again and again. Just going to give it a shot as I have no plans to run again until the knee is fixed. Muscle memory and pain killers will get me around I hope.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14 boardscoffeepen


    16 (8am) - 20 (1pm) degrees and mostly dry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Not too bad. Would prefer it a bit cooler starting off but could be worse. It's 28° there today so good to see most forecasts agreeing that its going to cool significantly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,595 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    I’m seeing even cooler long term predictions on my favourite site (yr.no). Still a bit early but remaining optimistic!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Like the look of this one. A bit of cloud cover later in the morning would be sweet.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭The Davestator


    Does anyone know the start times. It shows the times for starting for the inline, but only shows letters for time, but I cant see where the letters correspond with finish time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    It's 9.15 for waves A-D. These are assigned based on the time you submit during registration. It's 9.45 for the later waves. I assume the wave letter will be printed on the bib.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Actually I got that wrong. This is correct.

    I can't find info about the best time for each wave this year but the below is from 2021 and I'm sure it's much the same.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    Best of luck to those here taking part in Berlin.


    Does anyone know is there anywhere on tv or online that we can watch the race?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭sk8board



    Eurosport for sure anyway.

    Looks like the forecast is in our favour, 13-18c during race time, dry, low wind, & humidity dropping 85-60% during the race.

    My list of excuses is getting short :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    Very best of luck to you all racing Berlin😊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭The Davestator


    Question for anyone who has done it before. I opted for the poncho option so cannot bring a bag with me (didn't understand at reg time) Is it still possible for me to access showers after? I know I'll have to get back into my smelly gear, but I'll have checked out of my hotel before hand so might not be able to have a shower there unless they are sound.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Forecast looks ideal. Hard to believe there's less than 48 hours to go.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 608 ✭✭✭echancrure




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭sk8board


    anyone planning to wear a hat? It’ll be overcast leaving the hotel tomorrow, but looks like direct sunlight from about 10am.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 834 ✭✭✭marathon2022


    Good luck today guys 🤞 go out and smash it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭Lazare


    What a phenomenal performance from you. Textbook marathon racing.

    Can't wait to read the race report.





  • Good to see the goat getting number 5 at 38 years young



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,595 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭The Davestator




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭The Davestator


    Quick report. My first time doing Berlin and prep couldn't have gone much worse.

    Got to expo early on Saturday and had zero queueing. Very smooth and picked up a few things at the expo.

    Race day start was busier than I though getting into the pens, but plenty of room once you did. Great atmosphere around and loads of info people if anyone needed help.

    On the course, the atmosphere was amazing. I dont know how many bands / Dj's they had but there must have been hundreds.

    Lots of aid stations although how anyone eats or drinks those Maurten gels is beyond me!

    Personally, I had the expected tough day. Knee and calves went around 17km so took a 200m walk and 800m run approach for a good while and just enjoyed the day instead of stressing out about something I couldn't do anything about!

    Amazing finish line and lovely to chill after until the legs started to move again.

    Glad I did it, but never doing another marathon if I am not prepared - its just too long a day.

    Home on the 9.45pm flight



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Fantastic weekend all round.

    the city really embraces the marathon like nowhere else for this scale of event.

    the 3 day travel card is brilliant, and Berlin is easy to get around.

    got to the tiergarten in 30min from the other side of the city on the underground, zero queue for the entrance to the restricted area 1hr before kickoff there was no queue for the bathrooms by the corrals then either, but a MASSIVE queue closer to gun time. Men could use the urinal stalls, and there were loads and zero queue at any time.

    a few loops of little pathway in the forest serves as the perfect warmup.

    i was start wave 1, corral C.

    as said above, there was a pinch point at the start line, which you had to walk past for A,B & C. Should’ve went to D instead and come up to C from the other direction. It got very busy maybe 25min before the gun but it seems the issue getting into corral C was that the A and B pens hadn’t opened yet ( they were small pens, maybe 15/20m long each, so it might’ve been for security reasons at the start line, or to give space to the hand bike racers), but C was open even 1hr beforehand.

    the crowd at the start line might’ve been looking to catch a glimpse of Kipchoge too - especially those going in later waves.

    the start line build up is amazing.

    it ends with the top 3 men and women getting announced, kipchoge announced last, 9:14am, and then the announcer calls “60 seconds”. Amazing time keeping for something this scale.

    got going, only for the person next to me to go arse over t1t just 200m in by sliding on a load of orange paint that was doused around by that protest. Thankfully it was easy to go around it, but if it was in your direct line, you were running 26miles with sticky paint on your soles 🙄. A cruel way to end some peoples months of prep.

    course was brilliant - water and bathrooms every 2.5k. The plastic cups this year were ideal for pinching, last years ones just crumbled.

    I went under the first firehose shower, but wet my shoes, so I just poured water over myself at every 2nd station. It was hot and sweaty from the off.

    bands and music all the way, all brilliant.

    no quiet parts of the course at all.

    The home-stretch is amazing, you round the final corner, a 600m run to the brandenburg gates and 400m to the finish, to the deafening sound of chariots of fire at the blue carpet sprint - really hits you in the feels!

    Had a great day, knocked 9minutes off my pb, a guaranteed BQ time, and 4min quicker than target.

    on the flight back now, the entire flight is tired runners & support!

    edit: forgot to add - the event is almost over-staffed there are so many people there to direct, help or marshal. Fantastic

    Post edited by sk8board on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 591 ✭✭✭FinnC




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,595 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    'Woke' climate protesters disrupt international mass tourist marathon with large merchandising element shock! 🤣 You don't have to agree with the protest methods to understand their point. But the most disruptive methods tend to get the most publicity, so it's vicious/virtuous circle, depending on your point of view.

    The affected area, which wasn't that big, was cordoned off by the time I passed, about 10 minutes after the gun. I'd imagine they had it well sorted by wave two. (Blocks E and later).

    The pictures in that link suggest the incident happened before the race had started. Thw paint blob wasn't very big (I saw it close up as I ran around it) - that part of the road probably could have been cordoned off before the gun. Not sure why it wasn't, maybe the timing was so well executed that it was simply too late.

    Events like this need to factor in the possibility of disruption, because like it or not, and whether you agree with it or not, they will be targeted.

    Post edited by Murph_D on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭Nuttzz


    I've done Berlin twice (though not this year) and I think it starts too late, for the heat they get there. 1030 is very late for the last wave to start. Chicago the last wave is off at 8.35.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭sk8board


    I tend to agree. I was off at 9:15, but saw guys with ‘G’ on their bib who I felt sorry for going off at 90min later, and maybe still another 4-6hrs on track in that heat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Yeah, I thought the same. Seems to be no reason why they couldn't start at 8am. Berlin is a 24 hour city so public transport etc. wouldn't be an issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Okay here goes. This report is pretty long so apologies in advance. I only do this once a year so it tends to be a bit epic.

    Berlin was on the cards from the moment I knew I had the qualifying standard from Amsterdam last year. I'm not really bothered about the marathon majors, even Boston has never appealed, but Berlin had always attracted me, probably because I love the city and have been a fairly frequent visitor over the years (albeit for marathon sessions of a different nature!).


    The Hanson Advanced plan had worked so well for me last year that it made sense to give it another go. I did a good bit of racing over the winter and then spent a couple of months base building, for the first time ever really. I had been averaging 45mpw over the previous year and I built up gradually to 60mpw by the end of March. I wanted to be able to start the marathon plan while comfortable at this mileage level as I was planning on adding extra miles this time around. During April and May I backed off on the mileage a little and did a few races while doing weekly speedwork with the club. I ran PBs for the mile, 5k and 10k during this period and I used these times to estimate my goal marathon pace for Berlin.


    By early June it was time to get into marathon mode and park the shorter stuff for a few months. I again enjoyed the structure of the Hanson plan despite it occasionally feeling a bit stale second time around. This had it's advantages too as I knew what to expect from the sessions and what sort of effort was sustainable etc. I was targeting 6 minute mile pace in the weekly marathon pace tempo sessions, more or less 2:38 pace, and while I seldom hit that pace exactly I was usually within 5-10 seconds of it, so close enough. I'm lucky enough to train with a great masters group in our club so I generally did my Tuesday interval session with them. We did lots of pyramid sessions, mile intervals and alternations, good marathon prep and nice to have some company once a week. I swapped in a couple of races, the Clonee 10k early in the plan (just under 35 mins on a really humid night) and the Tullamore Half four weeks out (75 flat). The latter race gave me a huge confidence boost and demonstrated that the fitness was there.


    I've been fortunate to avoid injury throughout the last few years, despite doing no supplementary work worth speaking of, and I don't think I missed any sessions in this block right up until the taper started. I'd been out for a nice run in the Phoenix Park with @Laineyfrecks and @Lazare when towards the end I felt something in the inner calf, just above the ankle. It continued to be sore for the next couple of days and Dr Google suggested it was posterior tibialis tendinitis which sounded quite ominous. I took the week off which meant missing the final two big sessions of the plan and had a very painful session with my physio. I managed a short run pain free the following weekend and a handful more easy runs during race week but there was still 'something' there and the fear of a DNF played on my mind right through to race morning.


    I flew into Berlin Saturday morning and went straight to the expo, which was painfully crowded. Got out of there asap and checked into my hotel, a basic but nicely located place next to the Tiergarten SBahn. I jogged down to the start/finish area to get my bearings and caught some of the inline skaters doing their thing. Later that evening as I walked the ten mins to a local restaurant for my second pasta dish of the day I could feel pain in that inner calf area with every step, not the most promising sign.


    I watched the rugby later that night, a perfect distraction, and had a great sleep all things considered. I set the alarm for six the following morning and had my usual breakfast of porridge and a bagel, a couple of coffees and then back up to the room to get ready. I had everything nicely laid out: gels, electrolytes, pre race banana, clothes for afterwards, Runglide etc. and I had ample time to double check everything. Despite all that I still somehow managed to apply Runglide twice in various nooks and crannies while both times forgetting the nipples. Talk about a rookie error!


    I walked the 3k to the start area, in hindsight I probably would have taken the train a stop or two, as it was a bit further than I'd estimated to the actual entrance and I felt slightly under time pressure in the end. Once inside, it took me a while to find the correct bag drop area for my race number. It turned out there were two separate areas about ten minutes apart from each other. I probably should have studied the map more closely. That done I made my way through the forest towards the ABC starting pens. This turned out to be absolute chaos with hundreds of runners milling about in the vicinity of a row of portaloos and the path seemingly blocked up ahead. It eventually became clear that the pens hadn't been opened yet as they were being used for the start of the wheelchair race. When they finally opened the gate it was madness with people climbing over barriers and shoving past the stewards. More reminiscent of something you'd see at a summer music festival back home than stereotypical German efficiency!


    Once finally in the pen I was finally able to relax and enjoy the buildup which was incredibly well designed and really sent shivers down the spine at times. Once we took off it was a surprise to find myself at race pace immediately and not having to weave around people who had overestimated their ability, the benefit of an advanced start position I suppose. I encountered the paint thrown by the climate protestors and was able to pick my way through it without issue. From that point on things just flowed and I settled into a nice rhythm. My main concern was that I was going a bit too fast with the watch suggesting an average of closer to 3:40 than 3:45 and I spent much of the first half of the race fretting about this and trying to hold back.


    I remember very little in terms of landmarks, just lots of wide streets, the occasional roundabout and plenty of cheering supporters, bands and djs. It was a riot of sound. I was lapping manually every 5k and checking my splits off a pace band. Between checking these splits, taking gels every 9k and negotiating the water stations time passed fairly quickly. I was very focused on following the blue racing line and managed to do this throughout the race. I ended up running 42.61km so only 400 meters of extra distance which is pretty good I think.


    It was around the halfway part that things began to feel tough. I'd gone from worrying that I was running too fast to having to make a conscious effort to stay on pace. I was also having periods of feeling like crap and having the occasional dark thought that it mightn't be my day. Generally these only lasted for a few minutes and were dispelled by some distraction or other and I'd feel okay again for a bit. Then I got that tell-tale jag of pain in the toe area. I've had it before and it's a sign that a toenail is on borrowed time. This was the worst I've experienced though as it hit both feet more or less simultaneously. It was fairly agonizing for a while and I'd probably not have finished if it hadn't eased significantly as the damaged areas numbed over.


    The later miles are pretty much a blur, just a constant slog of working harder and harder to stay with the pace while hoping that the body would stay (more or less) in one piece to get me within sight of the Brandenburg Gate. I did slow down slightly over this last section but only by a few seconds per kilometer. I had vague ambitions of upping the pace in the last kilometer or two but by the time that came around I was quite happy to just keep ticking along in the knowledge that the 2:38 was safely in the bag. The finish section is just incredible and I was actually able to focus on it and enjoy the moment, raise my hands and finish with a smile on my face. It had been bloody tough but by the end I knew that it had also been a really well paced effort and I felt incredibly grateful to have gotten through it relatively unscathed, particularly in light of the injury concerns of the past fortnight.


    I stumbled around in a haze of emotions for the next hour or so as I enjoyed the free Erdinger Alkoholfrei and the sunshine. Finally I built up the courage to survey the damage to the nipples (I’ve seen worse) and the toes (horror show). I changed into dry clothes and made my way to the fanzone area by the Brandenburg Gate. I had a couple of real beers here and a pretzel and took a proper opportunity to enjoy the atmosphere. Afterwards I shuffled to the Friedrichstrasse station and got a train back to near my hotel. Several more beers followed in a gorgeous old beer hall by the station along with a delicious currywurst and I finally made it back to base around 5pm. Later that evening I had pizza in a beer garden and I even made it to a show (seated, thankfully) to catch a producer that I love playing a dreamy ambient set, a fine way to end a memorable day.


    A few reflections:


    - Hansons Advanced is the real deal. It’s twice taken me to within 30 secs of my goal time. It would be hard to justify switching approaches next time around.


    - Berlin impressed me but I wouldn't really consider it any faster than Amsterdam or all that much better in terms of atmosphere. I was surprised that the road surface was sketchy enough in places. I guess the biggest difference I noticed from Amsterdam last year was the standard of runner. I ran much of the second half of Amsterdam in relative isolation. That never happened in Berlin and it's of course much easier to sustain a pace when you have people around you to pace off or chase down.


    - I need to do something about the toenail issue. It had happened to me before but never to this extent. I think the problem is that my Alphaflys are slightly too big and because they don't have the extra eyelet for the runner's knot I wasn't properly locked down and the foot was sliding forward with every stride. I had raced in them before up to half-marathon distance without issue so it wasn't really something I could have predicted.


    -Nutrition was perfect. I switched from Maurten to SIS Beta Fuel this year, for cost reasons. I took a Beta Fuel every 9k with the exception of km27 where I swapped in a GU Roctane gel for a hit of caffeine. Once again I carried a 250ml soft flask of Decathlon isotonic drink to let me avoid the early water stations and to get in some additional carbs early in the race.


    - This was my third marathon and by a large margin the one where I felt the least amount of pressure and anxiety. First time around in Dublin I was obsessed with going sub 3 while last year in Amsterdam I was chasing sub 2:45 to get the Berlin time. This time there was no obvious landmark goal involved, just a pace that seemed achievable based off recent race times. Despite the lack of that overarching goal, my motivation was as high as ever. I think at this stage I just really enjoy marathon training as a process and that in itself is enough to keep me coming back. If I can keep improving and stay healthy I'll probably have a go at sub 2:35 this time next year.









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