Advice - Buy Now or Wait another 2 years

Ceolaguscraic

Hi guys,

Looking for some advice. I am in my late 30s living at home and saving, like half the country at the moment (sometimes can't believe I'm still at home at this age).

I have enough savings now that I could afford a 1-2 bed apartment.

I live at home with my sister who is also saving but we don't really get on with each other too well.

I am wondering should I continue to stay at home and save in the hopes that I may have enough for a small ex-council house in 2 years or should I bite the bullet and get moving on getting an apartment now?

Pros of buying apartment:

Independence

Could rent a room.

Stop keeping track of the constant negativity in the media about housing.

Cons of buying apartment:

Management fees.

Could get stuck like many did during Celtic Tiger.

I'd like to meet someone and have a family and could be stuck in an apartment if this happens.

Pros of Waiting and Saving for 2 more years:

Could potentially buy a small house (380-400k budget)

Could have a back garden

Cons of waiting:

Another 2 years living at home.

Prolonging gaining independence.

Relationship with sibling not great and potentially getting worse.

Thanks a million for any advice. I am also aware that I am in a lucky situation to be able to make these choices.

Mr Hindley

Honestly, I would go ahead and buy now. The market is all over the place, impossible to predict, but even now, when by rights prices should be falling due to inflation and high interest rates, every viewing I go to has gotten busy again. If you buy somewhere, you can give yourself a couple of years off from stressing over the property market, you have your own place (don't underestimate how much that counts for in terms of mental well-being), and you have a degree of certainty. And it's a couple of years of paying down the mortgage. It used to be the most normal thing in the world to buy somewhere small, then work your way up the ladder as your finances improved.

But that's just one opinion. If there's one thing I know, is that no-one knows anything for sure :(

herbalplants

In my opinion, you would make a mistake buying an apartment now. You said it yourself, you would like to meet someone and have kids. When that happens, the value of your apartment may have dropped and potentially incur a loss by selling it and trying to purchase a house then.

There are potential issues with apartments like there is a thread here, where the owner has a leak, affecting his property yet property management is not doing anything about it.

Not getting on with your sibling may not be as bad of an issue when you compare with issues that can derive from owning an apartment and paying property management fees.

My 2c.

The Ging and I

Hold on for a house, management fees are in the 2000 euro plus range per annum.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430982#Comment_120430982

Rubbish!! Management fees on a 1 or 2 bed should be under 1k. I've a three bed and my fees are under 1200.

Fees are development specific, you can't make generalisations!!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430985#Comment_120430985

Just like you did?

whatawaster

Given our increasing population, immigration levels and our inability to build anywhere near enough those units to meet demand, I can’t see how the value of good apartments is going to go down over the medium term (allowing for short term shocks, of course). But land is scarce and homes are scarce and are always going to be expensive in this country

Quandary

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430985#Comment_120430985

I have a 2 bed apt in Dublin and my managment fees are 2600 per year. Maybe a lot less in the rest of the country but in Dublin managment fees of 2k+ are really quite common.

PSFarrell

I was in a similar situation. And I bought an apartment in my early 30s and sold recently to buy a house as I now have a partner. If in the future you do meet someone your budget will increase opening up houses that previously you were priced out of. You do need to factor in management fees mine were 1680 for 2023 and raising to 1880 for 2024. Once you are out of the family home and no longer actively looking the negativity around housing dissapates. If I were in your shoes I would be looking for independence asap.

Ceolaguscraic

Thanks for the feedback guys. It's a tough decision to make but it's given me a lot of food for thought.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431683#Comment_120431683

I'm in Dublin!

covidcustomer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058290755/advice-buy-now-or-wait-another-2-years

If you can, buy. That would be my advice, you're not in a relationship, you have no children (from what you submitted), your mental health, peace of mind and general well-being is what is at stake and I say this because you refer to your current situation. You are in your late 30's and you can afford a place, in that case, pull the trigger, what happens in the future is going to happen, deal with it then.

badboyblast

I cannot see any drop in the housing for the next ten years, we had cheap credit and very cheap houses for over ten years, prices will never go back to where they were. its impossible.

headtheball14

go for it, there is no ideal time to buy.people say they wish they were in a position to buy a few years ago but reality prices were low because so few people could actually get a mortgage .

in two years you will have two years shorter of any mortgage term, you will have higher life assurance.

you might he able to get a better home in a couple of years but do you want a larger home and garden enough to sacrifice your life for two more years ?

riclad

Theres very few houses for sale in dublin ,i can see no chance of prices falling in the next 5 years, the problem i see is

lets say you save 20-30k in the next 2 years the houses for sale will have gone up in price by 35-40 k, its like if you drive a car a 50mph and you are racing a train going at 60mph you are never going to catch up up the train and you are wasting your time.

eg you have no Gaurantee house prices will not rise in the next 2 years

if if was 20 or 30 years old now i,d team up with a friend EG joint house purchase and buy a 2 or 3 bed house rather than buying a 1 bed apartment .

https://www.mortgages.ie/go/first_time_buyers/information_for_first_time_buyers/joint-purchases

https://www.lynchlaw.ie/blogs/thinking-of-buying-a-property-with-your-spouse-partner-or-friend/

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058290755/advice-buy-now-or-wait-another-2-years

I have a theory that when you buy a house it should be somewhere you could end up stuck for the next 10 years and still be happy enough

That kind of rules out most apartments, if you end up with kids in the apartment then it might feel a bit cramped.

Tbh I really like the idea of family apartments, there's plenty of good examples of them in Europe. We just don't seem to be able to build them in Ireland

So if you are looking for a place where you could potentially raise a family, here's my few tips:

You'll obviously want to make sure there's a school in the area. But you'll also want to make sure there's stuff like a crèche, GP, shops, pharmacy and soft play centre nearby as well

You'll also want to make sure there's some playgrounds and open areas nearby where kids can be taken for a walk

And one extra, take a look at the pavements around the area and seem if they're narrow or all broken up. Not much more annoying than trying to navigate a buggy along a crappy footpath

In terms of the housing market, you might as well take answers from a horoscope as anything else.

My personal feeling is that the market can't sustain its current price growth and will begin to cool off a bit

Having said that, developers have become experts at slowing the supply of housing to keep prices high, and I don't see anyone stepping in to force house completions

So I don't think a price crash is around the corner, which kinda sucks for buyers

The other side of the suck coin is that if you buy now you're probably not going to get great value for money in terms of appreciation

One other suggestion, is there another area you can move to which will allow you to buy the house you want now at a more affordable price?

I know that might mean looking in the dreaded suburbs, or even worse, a satellite town 😱

But, it might let you fulfill the other criteria, and some places outside the cities can actually be quite nice to live in. If you can make the commute work, or work remotely then it's something to consider

riclad

theres a limited no of houses being built ,alot of builders prefer to build hotels or office buildings , we have a limited amount of builders working in ireland ,theres not enough to meet the demand for housing

suave.4u

Why doesn't Ireland open up a Visa scheme like this one:

https://www.immigration.govt.nz/employ-migrants/hiring-a-migrant/recovery-visa

get people in for a short period of time from say non EU countries. Build 100K houses and they go back.

Padre_Pio

My advice would be to wait for a house.

The market is so unpredictable and the WORST thing to happen is to get stuck with a property that doesn't suit your needs. A couple will quickly outgrown a 2 bed apartment if a child comes along. At least you're covered if you have a 3 or 4 bed house.

ingo1984

.t

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432698#Comment_120432698

+1

You may have a higher income in a few years or have a partner and your combined income will give more options. Buying any property is scary but if the alternatives are staying in your folks or renting, maybe take the plunge with a 2 bed house or apartment and trade up if your needs change. You'll either pay management fees or spend an equivalent amount on gardens/maintenance/refuse collection in a house so not a deal breaker imo and, if you buy a 2 bed, you can always let the second bedroom for a year or two to help with bills.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432257#Comment_120432257

€2k for the better areas in Dublin is normal enough.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433199#Comment_120433199

Also, it looks like any ex-rental properties being sold will not be available for buyers like the OP who are not currently tenants. According to Michael MGrath, the government will introduce legislation in the next few weeks where landlords will be legally required to offer a property to the tenant or the council / AHB on behalf of the tenant.

Other buyers will be hugely discriminated against and basically locked out from those properties.

DownByTheGarden

I advised a lot of people not to buy in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007.

Most of them loved me for it over the next decade or so and hate me for it now :)

My outlook on buying has changed over the years.

Now I would advise anyone to get out of the rent trap.

Buy even a shed if they live in it. Trade or improve up if you can after that. At least you are out of the rent trap.

Lots of people who waited for prices to come down on that 3 bed house cant even now buy a 1 bed apartment and their rents have skyrocketed.

You could do worse than be stuck in a 1 bed apartment that is yours, paying a fixed mortgage on it.

You could be stuck with nowhere to live after your landlord has been forced to sell. Or you could end up back in with your parents long term.

Nowadays my advise is to buy the best property you can afford right now.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433831#Comment_120433831

But he is not renting in the open market, he is living in his parents home.

LunaLoo

I was in similar position to you 5 years ago renting (very small rent) a granny flat type place from a family member with my husband. We hated being there so bought a very small townhouse knowing it wasn't going to be a forever home. It was just somewhere for max 10yrs, it suited us for where we were then and more importantly got us away from the family. Fast forward 4years and we sold it for a healthy increase and bought our dream home.

So if you can afford to buy your "right now " home with the mindset of it being a short term solution

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433922#Comment_120433922

As the banks say "past performance is not indicative of future results"

A short term solution house should be suitable for at least 10 years. I'm sure we all know people who were stuck in small apartments from 2008 onwards and all of a sudden there's a baby or two on the way.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433719#Comment_120433719

"You'll either pay management fees or spend an equivalent amount on gardens/maintenance/refuse collection in a house so not a deal breaker imo"

Really you pay over 2k in garden maintenance a year? Refuse collection amounts to 250 a year for a house ! Big gap to the 2k a year.

Mrs OBumble

Are you male or female?

If female then you are already old(*) from a childbirth perspective, and I wouldn't be basing plans around possibly meeting someone who still wants to have (more) kids. On that basis, I'd say buy now.

* Yeah I know it sounds mean to say that. But not telling the truth is even meaner.

Shelga

If the OP’s budget is about enough for a 1-2 bed apartment now, I don’t see how it’s helpful advice to just say “oh buy a 3-4 bedroom house”. Of course that’s what we all want. The fact is, if you’re a single buyer, you have to compromise in some area.

I was like you last year, OP, I looked at both houses and apartments. The management fees put me off, but in theory I didn’t really have an issue with an apartment. However, if you buy a fixer upper house, just be aware that that can be stressful and have lots of unforeseen costs too. I’ve had a plumber out this morning for yet another thing that’s gone wrong.

Overall though, yeah I’d aim for a house if you can, but there are pros and cons with everything, when you’re on a tight budget.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433860#Comment_120433860

He clearly doesnt want to be living there if he is looking for advice on whether to buy or wait.

Im just offering my experience of the situation.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434252#Comment_120434252

Management fees includes insurance and maintenance of the building exterior plus a % for a sinking fund for major costs. Individual house owners need to pay building insursnce and regular repairs & maintenance like painting, gutter/ window cleaning, boiler service etc. so it probably balances out over a few years.

Of course there are some lucky owners who can diy everything and never have to pay a tradesman 😉

riclad

if you cant afford a house now i doubt if you can afford it in 2 years time, buy an apartment or buy a house maybe a joint purchase with a friend, go to daft.ie search houses 300k,

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/terraced-house-35-mellowes-avenue-finglas-west-finglas-dublin-11/4678186

2 bed houses in old working class areas coolock, finglas are cheaper than say a house in beaumont .

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/terraced-house-80-macroom-road-coolock-coolock-dublin-5/4680266

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434763#Comment_120434763

There are reasons houses like that in those areas are so much cheaper though.

I suppose one point the OP hasn't really touched on, where are they looking to buy?

They said if they waited another couple of years they could do 380-400k. Where would they be in 1 year I wonder?

If it were me I'd be hanging on to get a house if I was still living at home with the folks.

I always found apartments to feel like stop gaps, bought and lived in one myself for about 6-7 years but always thought of it as a stepping stoned to get to my current house.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434763#Comment_120434763

You'd want to be mad to move to Finglas right now the place is a kip ,

Now if your from there its different as you've grown up there, you know the people & the area but as an outsider no chance, you don't want to be raising your kids there ,

J_1980

Depends really on location of “apartment now” and “house in future”.

riclad

my friend lived in coolock for 10 years ,,he never had any problems there at all

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120437463#Comment_120437463

Did OP say what part of the country they are looking to buy?

riclad

He says he,s looking to buy house 380k _400k approx

that would indicate he,s likely buying in a city probably in a middle class area, since right now you could buy a 3 bed house in a rural town for 200 to 250 k easily right now

There's a one bed house in Dublin 7 going for 200k right now

I'm not sure why he is waiting for 2 years from now does that make sense since house prices could rise by 20 to 30 k in 2 years

I'm presuming he's looking to buy in Dublin or another city

He should go to daft.ie look at houses 200 to 300k in the county he wishes to live in I can't really see the point of waiting for 2 years if for instance he could get a 300 or 340k mortgage right now

It would help to say my income is X amount per annum

I have saved up say 50k

To get more detailed advice here

Since banks lend 3 to 3.5 times your income approx

How much could he save in 2years 20k

40k ?

road_high

Is there any duplex you could afford? I started off with one of those and was a decent compromise with own small garden etc

rob316

Buy if you can and are comfortable with the repayments. If things did start to go south you are still looking at a max of 10% fall in prices and even then I don't see that in 2 years time. It's going to go fairly stagnant for now prices but will remain high. If its somewhere you plan on living in for the next 20 years you won't care how much prices fall or go up.

I dropped out of buying a house just before Covid 240k, needed a lot of work but amazing location. I thought at the time no way prices will drop like a stone with worldwide recessions, how wrong was I. It resold for 400k at the start of the year

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120437463#Comment_120437463

People have been murdered in Foxrock. Different people have different experiences in different locations.

Yes, a lot of folks living in harder, working class areas like that will be fine. Others might not. Some people might not like having to walk past gangs of dodgy teenagers on the way home, some folks might be okay with it. Some folks might not like hearing joyriders flying passed their house, other folks might like to sleep to it.

You are right though re the OP, we really do have nothing to go on. Don't even know where they'd ideally like to buy.

Can't really form any kind of suggestions without that information.

riclad

My friends lived in coolock about 5 minutes from the shopping centre , i went there every 2 weeks, for 7 years i can,t remember seeing any gangs of teens hanging around, i would be happy to buy a 3 bed house there if it was a reasonable price ,

I never remember being worried about walking round there even after 11pm ,the problem is some people thing every working class area is like an episode of love/hate or the wire ,So the,ll pay 300k for a small 1 bed apartment rather than buy a 2bed house in a working class area .before buying a house my advice is go there at friday 10pm, saturday 11pm, drive around the area just to see whats it like .

i do,nt remember seeing even one joyrider in that area over a period of 7 years

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120439081#Comment_120439081

You can get a 2 bedroom house in D7 for 350-400k. I'd put that down as a nice happy medium between your 300K 1 bed southside apartments and Love/Hate land 😁

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120438501#Comment_120438501

Living remote in the countryside is the only way to avoid all of this.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120439132#Comment_120439132

Living remote in the countryside also brings up it's own problems too though.

No public transport, far away from medical facilities, far away from entertainment venues, far away from friends/family. Couldn't do it myself.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120439141#Comment_120439141

Exactly! Long commute, driving to the nearest shop, and everything you said.

the conversation is going in circles without more input from the OP

The Spider

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120439081#Comment_120439081

Ah right ok sure they’re all grand those areas, listen I’m from an area that would be looked on as a bit rough I suppose another city not Dublin, when I was growing up there I didn’t really know any different, I thought it was normal for gangs of lads to chase you and if they caught you beat the hell out of you, I literally thought this happened to everyone, well it happened to everyone I knew.

It was only when I went to college (and getting there was a struggle) and got a different perspective from people from different parts of the country that I realised how truly bad it was, and believe me where I was from would have nothing on Coolock I’m very familiar with it.

I won’t defend these areas and say they’re fine I never saw any trouble, they’re not fine and would be the last places in Ireland I’d bring up kids, sure you may not see any trouble, but if you have kids they’re they’re the ones who’ll see it, they’re the ones who’ll be targeted by gangs of little scumbags. And not even that if they’re surrounded by people with no ambition it rubs off.

having lived in really nice areas I can safely say I’d rather commute than live in an area like that or take the chance on bringing up kids there, having grown up in it myself no way.

SwimClub

In OP's scenario I'd look at moving out, buy a small house that needs a lot of work now but that is marginally liveable in, big relative discount on these due to the cost of labor and materials at the moment. Take a punt that cost of work will probably come down in real terms in the not too distant future and get the work done bit by bit. There is always the safety net of moving home for a bit if needed.

I'd compromise on the condition of the place rather than the location.

riclad

theres a reason most people want to live in citys, living in rural area,s usually means long commutes to work, i live in dublin ,i use the bus or i cycle .keeping a car on the road is not cheap, insurance ,cost of petrol maintenance. i don,t understand the logic of saying ,ill wait for 2 years and then ,ill buy a house unless he can maybe save 70k in 2 years . its a lot more complex than working class area, = love hate , crime,chaos versus middle class area equals heaven peace and tranqullity. my friend lives in a house in finglas, 99 per cent of houses on the estate are owned by the tenants bought from the council.i,d be happy to buy a 3 bed house there even if it was the same price as a 1 bed apartment in the city centre , eg its a council estate

she,s lived there for 20 years and never had any hassle or anti social behavior.

i think you should buy in a place no more than 35 minutes commute from your job

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120441686#Comment_120441686

This bit, +100. Buying a long commute is madness.

i think you should buy in a place no more than 35 minutes commute from your job