Universal Free School meals

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122131738#Comment_122131738

I always saw schools as places where kids go to receive an education

Not places where hungry children go to get food...

The dysfunction for me isnt the school providing the meals out of necessity, its the fact there is a group of studrnts turning up at schools hungry/not fed

Thats dysfunction in my book, regardless of what country it occurs in

Your point that it happens in other advanced westetn democracies may mean they arent as advanced as we think....theres something going wrong with the way we organise our societies/distribution of wealth/resources if schools have to feed kids not because they are providing a service but because they may be the main source of nutrition (never mind anything else) in a certain cohort of students lives...

Tbh I think if thats primarily the case education will out of necessity take a back seat and the school is esentially a soup kitchen...

The "advancements" arent evident across all parts of society etc

As to what to do about it, well its no short term fix thats for sure, in the immediate term, provide the meals, in the long term look to reduce the need to provide meals out of necessity because so many hungry undernourished kids are showing up at school...

Maybe a certain cohort of parents should have to take responsibility for their kids to some degree?

Maybe both parents shouldnt have to work fulltime just to provide a semi d and feck all else for their family?....maybe if money went to provide more work flexiblity for parents during their kids childhood so they could be more present in their kids lives....some people just dont have that luxury...and its not about them being willing to make sacrifices...if they both dont work the show which is already teetering on the brink loses its wheels entirely..

Maybe the small cohort of wasters lifetime social welfareites that see it as a lifestyle choice shouldnt be incentivised and some moves towards winding that down over 20/30 years could be made? If that money isnt going to provide food and is ending up in the bookies or the pub maybe that should be disincentivised/discouraged etc

I dont know all the solutions and perhaps the above would be disastrous but I stand by my point if large amounts of kids are showing up hungry to school theres something dysfunctional about that society ...no matter how advanced it is.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132246#Comment_122132246

What if the place the children spend all their day just provided for their needs while they were there? That seems like a simple solution.

witchgirl26

I genuinely don't understand the massive issue with this.

My dad was a principal in the 1980s/1990s in a primary school in a disadvantaged area. He helped set up a breakfast club for kids because kids work better (I don't just mean academically but also play etc) when they have a full belly. The breakfast club was basic - cereal & toast was offered but it meant that all kids had an equal opportunity. A lot of the kids coming there wouldn't have bad parents by any stretch but they had parents who were struggling financially or maybe didn't understand the connection between food & behaviour etc.

As for the current school lunches, I know people whose kids are in schools where its been in operation for a while & they think it's great. 1 in particular has been running for over a year now. The parents are asked to pay a subsidy of about €10 a week to get a better choice etc (this was voted on by the BOM). There's hot options that are really good as well as some salads/sandwiches. The kids eat in their classrooms like they would have done if they had a packed lunch. They pick a week in advance. The school has dictated to a level the menu so things like burgers, chicken goujons and the like are only available on a Friday. All allergens are catered for as it's an outside company delivering so they have the proper segregated kitchens & allergy meals are delivered in separate boxes.

My son's school isn't part of it at the moment but I have no problem with some of my tax money going to ensure that every child in this country has a proper meal in the middle of the day. I mean, seriously how can that even be a question?! We can all spout on about how kids going hungry at school is wrong and something should be done to the parents blah blah blah but why should the children continue to suffer when they don't have to? To prove a point? To make their parents learn something? In the history of the world, when has that been ok? Feed the kids, sort the other problems separately. You don't have to stop one to solve another. And school location doesn't always indicate that there are disadvantaged kids there. My primary school was in a "posh" location but kids came from other places that were decidedly less so.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132288#Comment_122132288

Perhaps it "seems" that way....but perhaps its not really a solution at all.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132200#Comment_122132200

A few things.

a) Are we saying that they are incapable or unable, as they are different things

b) It is not a situation I would be happy with so mitigation attempts like a hot meal at school is a good outcome.

c) Ill repeat, what is your end game here? Take away kids from their parents? That is a lot of kids for the state to look after and the outcome for children in state care is often and usually way way worse.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132246#Comment_122132246

Thats dysfunction in my book, regardless of what country it occurs in

Your post is a rant on 'why of why dont we have Utopia with perfect people and perfect parents.."

There is no Utopia, all countries and societies have problems because humans are imperfect.

What matters is how the state attempts to mitigate and help those who can't help themselves. Having a hot meal at school is one way to help.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132288#Comment_122132288

Kids are in a school for six hours a day.

That's 25%.

Even if you think about their waking hours it's a maximum 50%. And that's if you assume they are getting adequate sleep - which they won't be.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132999#Comment_122132999

And?

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132600#Comment_122132600

Exactly...its one way…perhaps not much of a solution on its own..it could just be a sticking plaster...but youll notice I did say perhaps it should be done but perhaps the state should mitigate in other ways too and maybe just maybe there are drawbacks to this in that it masks more serious issues etc etc

Have school meals been a rip roaring success in these developed countries you speak of? are less children showing up at the point of entry hungry because their parents cant or wont feed them? Are the meals being provided nutritionally balanced or tendered out to the lowest bidder? Are more kids now receiving worse nutrition because the school is tasked with providing their food with a totally inadequate budget (and given the govts inability to manage a piss up in a brewery here that wouldnt be an outcome beyond the realms of posdibility) Is it possible there may be other measures or a suite of actions that would have better outcomes could be considered. Is someone allowed voice an opinion without yourself taking them on like a govt press/pr spokesperson.

Tbh you are the one on a bit of a rant, im stating my opinion calmly. You seem determined to aggressively shut down anyone with the temerity to voice another opinion .....on a discussion forum no less.

Starfire20

theres a sentiment, usually on the right, where they dont care how many children are hungry, not my problem pal.

they just dont want a single cent of "their" taxes going towards school meals for children.

bootstraps, something something, shur didnt i have it hard and i turned out grand etc.

pure begrudgery and "im alright, jack" politics.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133830#Comment_122133830

turned out just fine, im not so sure about that!

you ll find many with all sorts of psychological issues, some engaging in all sorts of dysfunctional behaviors from excessive alcohol consumption, drug use, gambling etc etc etc, some showing signs of narcissistic behaviors etc etc

just fine, i dont think so….

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133629#Comment_122133629

Have school meals been a rip roaring success in these developed countries you speak of?

Yes, yes they have.

https://frac.org/programs/national-school-lunch-program/benefits-school-lunch

Soc_Alt

All schools should have free lunches to all attending children.

Shouldn't be based on poverty.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135902#Comment_122135902

Thats more like it, its nice not to be dismissed brusquely just because one expresses an opinion.

Good, and I see they have measures in place to try make the meals nutritionally balanced too....so it doesnt degenerate into nuggets and wedges.

Id hope the same would occur here and it doesnt require fund raising to provide poor quality food, tonnes of which get wasted or quangos wasting millions.

And tbh to use an analogy I still think theres an element of treating the symptoms and not doing anything to work towards addressing causes....its not like Im necessarily against the symptoms being treated as I made clear throughout (despite some jumping the gun and assuming rather than fully reading what I posted) however there are reasons so many students turn up hungry to school that should be tackled too imho

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136045#Comment_122136045

And tbh to use an analogy I still think theres an element of treating the symptoms and not doing anything to work towards addressing causes....its not like Im necessarily against the symptoms being treated as I made clear throughout (despite some jumping the gun and assuming rather than fully reading what I posted) however there are reasons so many students turn up hungry to school that should be tackled too imho

That is fine, but the sentiments and opinions echoed here by some clearly state that and allude to the fact that kids should be taken off their parents who don't or can't feed them in the mornings.

That is much more damaging and harmful to children in the long run.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122131766#Comment_122131766

So you’re happy for 1 in 16 families to neglect their kids?? Yet your on your high horse about homes that were around decades ago?!

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138131#Comment_122138131

Am I happy about it? No.

But I dont want to turn back the clock 80 years and reopen the industrial schools either, which is what you are suggesting we should do. The latter is more harmful to children.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141680#Comment_122141680

I never once mentioned industrial schools.

Ban surrogacy and offer adoption.

Hotblack Desiato

Jaysus

drury..

School meals feed kids a hot meal

How is that not working?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145049#Comment_122145049

It's ignoring/hiding all the other problems that kids who need free meals have, while spending truckloads of resources on kids who don't need free meals.

Hugely wasteful and enabling neglect at the same time.

That's without even thinking about the social benefits of having families eat together, and the cultural issues of institutional feeding: how does a parent know that their kid is only eating vegan / halal / pork-free / beef-free / whatever food?

People seem determined to say that I'm advocating industrial schools. I'm not. I'm advocating family resource centres, neighbourhood programmes, in-home family support workers, extended family support workers - and foster parents as a last resort. Anything which gives support and autonomy to individual families - not large institutions.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146275#Comment_122146275

The parent knows because it's the parent who orders what the kid gets, at least this is how it works at our school.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146275#Comment_122146275

You're arguing different points but neglecting the major point

Frees school meals provide children a hot meal

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146275#Comment_122146275

….so you re advocating for taxes to be raised in order to try to offer such services? id have to agree, but heres the reality, taxes arent gonna be raised in any great way, so….

Hotblack Desiato

They won't be eating a meal with their family in the middle of the day because they're in school

Some of the things people come up with are just off the wall ridiculous.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148551#Comment_122148551

Where did the middle of the day idea come from? None of us are living Dev's dream any more. Dinner is an evening meal.

Gary_dunne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148626#Comment_122148626

You had mentioned That's without even thinking about the social benefits of having families eat together

This aspect wouldn't be removed as the free school meals is a lunchtime thing. They get a hot meal in school at lunch, doesn't mean they don't have dinner in the evening with their families.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122144342#Comment_122144342

You think that will solve the issue?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146275#Comment_122146275

One one hand you give out about this being a waste of money and is an enabler, but then advocate massive increases in the budget to offer all the extra services you mention, which will cost a lot more and will probably just do the same thing anyway, that is offer a hungry child a hot meal.

Mrs OBumble

If a kid has had a hot dinner in school, they don't need and shouldn't have another dinner at night ('cos you know, obesity etc). They just need a light supper, which is a lot quicker, and has less time for family interaction.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149039#Comment_122149039

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149548#Comment_122149548

In-depth family services will increase the adults capacity and willingness to parent their kids. That involves a lot more than just feeding them, and it improves the capacity of the kids to become functional adults who don't need the services. Just feeding the kids does none of that. (It's "give a man a fish vs give him a fishing rod".)

It's kinda scary the number of people who can't see that a parent who is not feeding their kid is almost certainly not doing other equally important things like adequate sleep, clothing and emotional support. Maybe it's some weird famine hangover in the psyche that sees being hungry as The Worst Possible Thing.