Tracking done - now I hate the way the steering feels

Auntie

Audi A4 2007

Put new tyres on the car about 10,000 miles ago and the guy mentioned the tracking off and the tie rods seized. Thought little of it but recently noticed the outer 1" of the front left had worn down badly. The car always had a distinct pull-to-the-left feel to it - if you were in the fast lane of the M50 and let loose the steering, the car would be centre of the slow lane in about 200 metres.

Down to a fast-fit type joint: two new tyres, new track rods and the tracking done.

Now the car feels horrible. The steering is completely neutral (nudge the wheel left, let go and the car will track left, nudge right, let go and the car will track right)

Reason why:

The old way, with the distinct left bias:

I held the wheel with one hand, applied constant (light) pressure holding the wheel "to the right" and that would hold the car in lane. Slight adjustments only involved the one "right steering" muscle group. If I relaxed that group the natural track left would start the car leftwards. If I added more force to that same muscle group, I steered to the right.

Summary: One muscle group: slight adding force, slightly reducing force could maintain the car going straight or going around curves in the road.

The new way, with neutral steering.

(Note: The steering wheel has a bit of freeplay (when you rock it side to side) where nothing happens - very little freeplay, but its there.)

If I apply "right muscle force" the car tracks right. But reducing applied "right muscle force" doesn't achieve anything like it did before - the car keeps tracking right because of the neutral steering. If I'm on the M50 the car is now tracking toward the white line. I have to reduce "right muscle force" completely, turn the steering left through the neutral zone (using left muscle force) and then continue to apply left muscle force to get the car to track away from the white line.

The car now heads towards the white line on the left and I've to reverse the muscle group, back through the neutral zone and then head to the right hand white line

Its a complete pain in the arse - what used to be a relaxed, one arm resting on the window ledge style of driving require two hands on the wheel constantly keeping the car between the white lines.

Is it normal to set up a car completely neutral like this, or should it be that it has a bias. The former requires two muscle groups and a lot of work, the latter one muscle group (the bias left acting as a muscle group in itself)

Thanks for any ...um ... steer

Del2005

Cars are supposed to track straight unless you are doing oval racing.

colm_mcm

You just need to relearn driving in your head again.

mickdw

They fixed your car and by the sounds of it, it's spot on.

If on the left side of a road with a crown in the centre, your car should drift left slightly but on a flat road, there is no way it should be pulling constantly in 1 direction.

I'd say it would be a first for a garage to have a customer coming back saying the car is driving too straight after alignment.

wotzgoingon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416926#Comment_120416926

Exactly this and your tyres will also last longer too as they will now wear evenly.

L1011

You've trained yourself to drive a 'broken' setup, and will need some time to get used to it not being like that.

My own car pulls slightly to the left by design (it seems - lots of other people complain about it but it has always passed the NCT on that without issue) and I notice it when driving anything else; but only for the first few km. But I can drive the left-pulling car with one hand on the wheel rather than two if I so wish; it doesn't cause any noticeable strain!

blackbox

There should be a certain amount of castor to your steering so that it has a small preference to straighten up on a perfectly flat road.

I'd agree with suggestions above that you need to give yourself a chance to get used to it, but if not happy go to a place with four wheel tracking and get it checked again.

Auntie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416962#Comment_120416962

It would sound funny if I went back and asked them to put a slight left pull on it.

Maybe it's as folk say - give it a chance. Which do you prefer?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417558#Comment_120417558

Most places wouldn't do it; basically. Too much chance of someone coming back and demand its re-done after it fails the NCT; or claiming uneven tyre wear that wasn't there before etc. They'll do it to what the systems says and nothing else.

I prefer cars that stay straight themselves, basically; but as its not something actually fixable on mine (so far as it seems) I don't really have a choice.

BlakeS94

You're a lunatic Auntie, it drives me mental if my steering wheel isn't centred and car isn't driving straight and true, I even went to the bother of putting new inner and outer rods both sides to make sure of it.

You're putting a lot of thought into successfully correcting your cars bad geometry. Instead of having it drive as designed and using less input/effort into the steering.

As others have said, give yourself time to get used to it driving correctly.

cml387

And both hands should be on the steering wheel at all times.

It's a dangerous habit to get into because if you hit standing water you'll be out if control before you can react.

Dirty Nails

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058290308/tracking-done-now-i-hate-the-way-the-steering-feels

No car is designed by default to pull either way, a veer of 1.4m/100m is even an NCT fail & that would be to one way only. Your problem is different in that the steering is too tight at the centre point. What you need to get done is disconnect both track rod ends with wheels off ground & check for smooth lock to lock turning of wheel either side. If that shows nothing,likely your issue is a tight spot in the rack. Not unknown on them.

Auntie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417959#Comment_120417959

Coming up to a week and its still driving me mad - but then again, I'm focusing on it alot.

I'm in engineering and the simplest (efficient, cheap, effortless) control system is one which is set to (slightly) drive the process one way, with the control being the periodic pulsing to drive it the other way.

A complex control system is one which has to operate in two directions

The latter is more complex, more expensive, involves more effort. :)

Auntie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420578#Comment_120420578

I wouldn't describe it as too tight (indeed, it feels very light (even vague) now that there's no pull at all)

There is this dead zone between car steering left and steering right - where you can wiggle the wheel from side to side and nothing happens. I understand there's always got to be a dead zone and I don't think it's excessive (maybe 5 degrees in total?).

Consider the sequence:

Apply effort right. Car tracks to the right.

Stop applying effort right - car keeps tracking to the right (because of neutral steering), and you're heading to white line

Start applying effort left - because you're now going through the dead zone, there is little steering resistance

Through dead zone - you feel resistance - you now have to apply more effort left.

Car starts tracking left

The bolded bit is where things become complex from a control perspective. Control systems usually consider what is currently happening in considering what adjustment to make next. It would "think":

"the amount of effort I am currently applying to the steering wheel is causing me to move left at too fast a rate"

"therefore I will reduce effort by such and such rate to slow the rate of moving left"

"I'm still moving left at too fast a rate, I will reduce effort a little more and see what happens"

It's called proportional control: your next move is proportional to what has been already going on.

When you move through the neutral zone (low effort) and then encounter resistance, your brain has nothing to reference against. It must make a stab in the dark as to how much effort to apply. It's response cannot be proportional because there is nothing to reference against.

What happens is that you overcook it and the car starts veering in the other direction.

If you were to track yourself, you'd see the car going down that road veering left to right to left to right.

The old way my car was (i.e.with a bit of bias left) means you are always making adjustments in the same muscle group (right muscle group, in the event the car is biased left). And those adjustments are proportional.

Therefore the line you drive on the road will be left towards straight towards left towards straight.

Which is overall, a straighter line. Less side to side and more a gently waving line.

If you see what I mean:)

Alun

A simple solution would be to get someone else who you trust to drive the car and report back to you on how it feels. You've been driving the car with faulty tracking too long to make a proper evaluation.

If they report back that there's nothing wrong, you know you just have to stick at it and get used to it.

Auntie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120419032#Comment_120419032

I drove motorcycles for years and at a fairly late stage in life was given my first car by my sister. A Ford Escort. A bit of a banger but when you're stepping away from the danger and the cold and the wet of a motorcycle ... well, lets say I loved it.

I remember when the snows came (what was it: 7 or 8 years ago?) and having great fun skidding the car around and getting used to the whole idea of opposite lock and the like. It was remarkable what could be recovered (there was a limit what you could do with a motorcycle, especially something like a heavy 1000cc)

What I found what that a single hand holding the steering about 11 O'clock provided the best control of all - you had the speed of movement and the strength of grip to keep the car snaking around just as you wanted it.

Anyway, I don't tend to take my hands from the wheel momentarily to check tracking whilst driving through pools of standing water :)

pooley124

Give it about 500 miles until the tyres wear in, and then see how it is. Sometimes a car can feel strange to drive after new tyres are fitted, but it settles down after a while

Alun

Also if new tyres were fitted, check the pressures!!! Most tyre places tend to over inflate them, sometimes by alarming amounts, resulting in some odd steering sensations.

Auntie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422974#Comment_120422974

Good point - the steering does feel very vague and floaty.

Auntie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422890#Comment_120422890

Good point ..

Dirty Nails

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422382#Comment_120422382

Lets try a mechanics approach here instead of a typical engineers over analysis.

Your steering wheel feels neutral but your steering is certainly not neutral. Steering should self centre,no if's or but's about that. Rack,upper or lower ball joint,shock top swivel in the case of mcpherson struts is binding & you've lost road feel back to the steering wheel. That's why your steering wheel feels neutral.

Sorry man, Your description of the fault is perfect but your thought process is seriously flawed.

Go back to my earlier suggestion & go one step further. With the track rod ends off start the car. Put one finger in the spoke of the wheel & turn steering slowly lock to lock. Look for a tight spot in the centre. You're looking for a tight spot that'll be barely noticable here.

antodeco

Literally had the opposite to this today. Except now that wheels etc are all aligned, the steering wheel needs a few degrees down left to steer straight. So just reset it up with the steering wheel boss and as good as new. Im actually finding the steering toooo responsive now!

mickdw

Assuming the steering boss hadn't been messed with before, that is the wrong way to fix that.

The alignment guys messed up.

antodeco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120424914#Comment_120424914

Definitely boss on mine. Fully replaced suspension and wheel parts (tie bars/rods/etc), so the car is actually properly aligned now 🤣

John_Rambo

Is this a joke?

wotzgoingon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120425191#Comment_120425191

I'm pretty sure it is he has another thread on here saying his battery kept going flat then later in the thread he said it was because he was locking the car wrong or some shít. WTF!

Dirty Nails

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120425343#Comment_120425343

Ah but if defence of the poor man - he did say he was an engineer :)

Engineers - the main reason cars are badly made.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422273#Comment_120422273

Please tell me what field of engineering you work for so I can avoid them products if they are designed them to be faulty. You don't design flaws into the process everything should default to neutral or fail safe.

Auntie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423982#Comment_120423982

I was a motorcycle mechanic and what you're describing for a car is precisely what you get if you overtighten the headstock bearings. You get a tight spot in the middle which you constantly fall either side of. Leading to you driving in a wavy line down the road through constant overcorrecting.

This feels different - not a tight spot but a "nothing happens when you turn the wheel" spot (but only for a couple of degree of turn). Once through that you immediately feel the wheels again and some resistance.

But an update: a poster above suggested checking my tyre pressures (given the front tyres where changed at the same time as the tracking done). I checked on the way home (after a wavy journey) and found all tyres pumped to 36psi instead of 32psi. I set them back to 32psi.

Now, I was off the motorway at this point and had only a mile to go, but the car felt more planted and that super light, vagueness seemed to disappear. Might well be that?

Thanks for the contribution in any case, I'll post when I've driven a few miles

Auntie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423341#Comment_120423341

All tyres were 36psi (normally they are 32psi). I lowered the pressure and the front seems a little more planted. As if the wheels are on tarmac as opposed to ice. I haven't driven motorway (where it felt worst) yet but will update here when I do. Fingers crossed and well spotted.

Auntie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120426500#Comment_120426500

Your heating thermostat works on the basis of a bias (your house is going to cool down / pull to the left) and simply turns the heating on to counter the constant bias (adds force to the right).

There is nothing faulty about it.

Auntie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120425454#Comment_120425454

Not true: if the engineers had their way, the car would cost 3 times the amount it currently does.

Auntie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120425343#Comment_120425343

I did say in another thread that my battery was going flat. And did, later in the thread say it was because I was locking my car wrong.

Now, unless you're the type who took a "how to lock your car right" course at some point, there's a chance you might end up locking your car wrong too.

😉