HAP tenant getting council house

The Polisher

My hap tenant of several years notified me today (verbally) that LA will be providing house for them. Tenant seems to think this will happen over the next few weeks. I've tried looking for info regarding this but I've come up against a brick wall. I did find out though that tenant is required to give 3 to 4 months notice and in writing.

Currently, I have not sought or received any info from LA or HAP.

Anyone got any experience of this situation?

Does LA through HAP need to give notice etc?

Will HAP cover rent for the notice period?

Any help with what to do etc gratefully appreciated

Browney7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058290136/hap-tenant-getting-council-house

Is your property going to be difficult to rent out to a new tenant even though there's a dearth of rental options for people?

DubCount

Notice from the tenant should be provided in writing for the term outlined in the legislation, but in practice, its never going to be enforced. Your tenant will stop paying their contribution when they move out and HAP will stop paying you. Attempts to legally enforce the required notice will bring you nowhere.

Be happy. The great Irish Rental Market lottery has given you vacant possession from a good tenant who has not wrecked the place, and has not left you with years of arrears that you will never see. Take your good fortune and sell up. There are many landlords who would give their right arm to have this "problem".

spaceHopper

In May 2019 you dogged a bullet, and were thinking of selling. I'd sell now while you can. You could sell to the council. Set a price and see if they will match or better it.

DownByTheGarden

I would look at this as getting lucky. Now run, while you still can. You may never get the chance to give up being a landlord again.

The Polisher

Thanks for replies. All very sensible suggestions.

I am seriously considering selling up. I doubt I would get as good a tenant .

Selling to the council is an option of course , anyone have experience of this?

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414909#Comment_120414909

Yes I sold mine to the council (well nearly, should be closing in a week or two). Their first offer was good enough for me but EA advised me to put it on the market anyway and hold that offer in reserve. Hsome more bidders and council bid again even higher. Enough of a difference to buy 2 cars :) So dont take the first bid you get. Put it to the market and let the council know they cam bid with everyone else.

rob316

Sell sell sell, you've got a serious lifeline here I'd take it and get out.

Ray Palmer

My tenant was told this 3 years ago and they said it would be a couple of months at most. They still haven't got a date. She has also been on the list for decades

Rows Grower

You are entitled to written notice of intention to quit.

If you are not given the correct notice you are entitled to, retain any security deposit you are holding since the start of the tenancy up to the value of the rent your tenant has not paid to complete the mutually agreed contract.

You have rights too and don't let anyone convince you that you do not.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416736#Comment_120416736

General result at RTB hearings is that you can only retain the deposit for lost rent for as long as it remains empty; and that you must have made an effort to fill it. Claiming that you can't find a tenant in the current market would be laughed at.

I also suspect that if you are intending to sell; you will have no justification for retaining the deposit for lost rent and will be made return it; but I've not seen that one played out before.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416746#Comment_120416746

The RTB is there to protect the rights and responsibilities of both the landlord and the tenant, a landlord can take as long as they like to find a suitable replacement tenant. A tenant not giving correct notice to quit a contract is in breach of the contract and liable for any losses incurred by the landlord. Any new, inexperienced, or none the wiser landlord reading your first paragraph would think in this scenario they are fighting a lost cause, they are not. They are entitled to hold back any money due from the tenant as per the written contract.

As for your suspicions in the second paragraph you haven't seen it played out because it hasn't happened. Some landlords are getting confused with what is actual law and what is an unqualified opinion on the internet. Landlords have rights too and if the tenant breaks a written contract the landlord has every right to hold back some or all of the deposit to right this wrong and is further entitled to pursue the tenant for any other money lost not covered by the deposit.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417233#Comment_120417233

Landlords who do not seek to limit their losses by finding a replacement tenant have had the amount of deposit they are allowed retain reduced or eliminated.

It isn't a lost cause, but if someone followed your implication that its OK to "take as long as they like" they would end up losing money.

Long Sean Silver

there was a time in this country if a person/family stayed in LA housing long enough, then they were practically guaranteed a LA house. this model is now utterly broken and people are now expected to pay for their own house/flat by obtaining a mortgage, and paying it off over 20/25/30 years.

i am LL and i would happily sell my properties to the LA in order to house people. BUT i must get a proper market price. if they are prepared to pay me that, then like many other LLs i will gladly sell up!

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417253#Comment_120417253

Putting a word in bold doesn't make your argument any stronger, you are doling out supposition and scaremongering.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417479#Comment_120417479

And you restating that you're right doesn't make it so either.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414909#Comment_120414909

Yea going through it at the moment. Getting market rate and saving estate agent fees

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417292#Comment_120417292

They do pay market rates , just ring them

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417753#Comment_120417753

They made an offer to me of what i thought was very good. EA told me to continue with the bidding. After a few bids then the council bid again, far higher than the highest bid. If id accepted their first one, and i was going to but the other half didnt want to, I wouldnt have got the higher price off them. The difference was enough to buy 2 cars. My lesson was, always test the market to find the real market price.

Cuddlesworth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417479#Comment_120417479

You ever heard of the phrase "drawing blood from a stone", its very applicable to the situation of recouping funds from lifetime social welfare recipients.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120425539#Comment_120425539

Yeah I've heard of the phrase and know exactly what it means but don't understand the relevance of it in this discussion.

Do you know what a legally binding contract is, what a deposit on a rental house is, what the purpose of it is and who holds it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120426664#Comment_120426664

Two things LLs fear most, tenants who do not pay rent and tenants who refuse to leave/overhold. If the op has a good tenant who pays rent/has it paid up until the day they leave, and leave voluntarily, the op should do three things, say a prayer in thanks, give the tenant back their deposit less any fair and legal deductions, and then sell the house.

The “blood from a stone” inference I presume, is in relation to getting any joy from taking a case against a social welfare recipient for any money owed as a result of not serving correct notice to the LL. If the op holds on to all the deposit, the tenant gets a free shot with the RTB and has a good chance of getting their deposit considering how easy it is at the moment for LLs to find tenants. In an earlier post you said the RTB is there to protect the rights of both LLs and tenants, it seems easier for a tenant to secure money from a LL than it is the other way round, because you can’t get blood from a stone.

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418243#Comment_120418243

Fair play to you, but I do feel a bit for the people being outbid by the council for the house. Must be hard to take for them.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430296#Comment_120430296

The blame here lays with the council who outbid normal Joe soap. Normal people cannot compete with the council,who spends tax payers money recklessly.

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430646#Comment_120430646

100% agree.

patrickc

The new circular for LA's in they can only buy houses now with tenants with a valid NTQ in HAP or RAS. Not private rented.

AHB's can buy private rented houses with valid NTQs

Jeff2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433213#Comment_120433213

What's NTQ.? Notice to...

patrickc

yes Notice to Quit

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430296#Comment_120430296

I agree. And I was very vocal and dead against the councils and the charities using taxpayers own money to outbid them on properties.

But I was desperate to get out, and nothing focuses the mind like the potential to be trapped and then money on the table to be able to get out. And if someone that you dont want to do business in the first place is offering you several 10s of thousands of euro more than than the next person you will take it. I feel guilty and even annoyed that i sold to the council (well its not done yet. Should be completed this week or next week), but it was the right thing to do for my family.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433213#Comment_120433213

They can buy empty ones too

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433861#Comment_120433861

Ireland is notorious for the amount of empty properties.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434840#Comment_120434840

What I mean is the council are not just buying HAP and RAS properties. They are buying properties with vacant possession too.

patrickc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434876#Comment_120434876

But regarding tenants in situ what I said above is the latest directive.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120437886#Comment_120437886

It may be but im just pointing our that the council will buy anything. Not just HAP or RAS properties.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433213#Comment_120433213

whats an AHB?

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120438161#Comment_120438161

Approved Housing Body.

Cluid, Respond, Tuath, etc.

Browney7

Dataset compiled by the housing agency outlining what new build social housing is coming on stream. Might be of interest to some. Q4 2022 looks to be published late https://data.gov.ie/dataset/social-housing-construction-status-report-q3-2022

Guffy

Partner has received NTQ. She rang LA and was advised if the LL wants to sell to them they have to contact them first. Is there a specific route to go in relation to tenant in Situ scheme or is it just the usual selling property to LA route?

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417233#Comment_120417233

The landlord would have a common law duty to talk all reasonable steps to mitigate his/her loss. They cannot take as long as they like and if they take no steps to mitigate and assume they can simply take the deposit they wilL lose and that would be upheld in court, not to mind the RTB.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452076#Comment_120452076

Landlord makes contact with council and council will forward on a specific form (expression of interest) to be completed by the landlord.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453065#Comment_120453065

Oh look, someone on the internet who makes up their own laws and also thinks they know how a judge will decide a case before the judge even hears a detail.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453299#Comment_120453299

Seriously; probably the most recent application of this is Hyland v Dundalk Racing Ltd.

No need to hide your own ignorance with snide comments.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454063#Comment_120454063

The case of Hyland V Dundalk Racing Ltd has absolutely no bearing, influence or relevance to this discussion.

Take your bluffing elsewhere.

The Polisher

UPDATE......back to the subject matter

I have been notified by HAP that payment will/has ceased on x date. Tenant has keys to new property and I've allowed a few days for tenant to move everything out.

Selling up looks like the best option at the moment. Time now to redecorate and we'll see what happens.

Cheers

SNNUS

To hell with your neighbours

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454333#Comment_120454333

Finlay Geoghegan J and Irvine J held that the bookmakers failed in their lawful obligations to mitigate their loss.

dragona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414967#Comment_120414967

Hiya, I am currently in a rental property for 20 years and was given a notice to quit.

The council has come for an inspection with a view to purchasing, and I was told that after an evaluation they will make one offer only, and that is it. Market rate, no negotiations, take it or leave it, to my landlord.

I am desperately keeping fingers and everything else crossed!

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476565#Comment_120476565

Yeah they said that to my EA too. EA said to reject their first offer and they would be back. He was right. You landlord is being very silly if he is not putting it on the market to give the council some competiton, but that works out for you though.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476565#Comment_120476565

They should take it.

it’ll save them the expense of advertising , estate agent fees, have no rent while the house is on the market and sale going through.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120477294#Comment_120477294

Why did you have an EA?

dud the council approach you or did you approach them?

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120480113#Comment_120480113

Luckily my tenants were moving out anyway, so it was empty when it came to selling, so it was easy to put on the market to get the proper market price for it.

Council came to the EA.