Considering renting for 6-8 months while working abroad, Ukrainian refugees easiest option?

mrcheez

Assuming my property meets the requirements to rent to a refugee, is renting to a Ukrainian refugee an easier option than putting my place on the rental market for a short term let?

I'd be looking to do it for 6-8 months, possibly longer (will decide while I'm away).

I'm aware I could get more money if renting privately, but there's probably more hassle involved in getting the place back (i.e. don't leases need to be min 12 months)? AirBnB would require I'm here to meet the guest etc, so that's not an option either.

Do I need to pay for the electricity/gas usage for the refugee, or is it simply €800 tax free cash and all their bills are handled by the govt?

Literally only read one page on it so far, so this is my first port of call for information before I start delving into it later :)

DownByTheGarden

Dont know how it works out with refugees if they dont want to leave, but if your rent it normally id say you might be going through the rtb and then the courts for a few years before you get it back. Even the government are advising people to overhold now.

AlanG

You are advised by the government to make your arrangements with the refugees regarding bills etc. This indicates to me that the Gov don't want to be part of the contract. Why?

• Be careful as the gov have a tendency to change the law as suits them and this makes contracts worthless when it comes to accomadation
• What will happen if they refuse to leave and become homeless when you get back, have a plan.

An option may be to rent out all rooms except 1 and fly back every now and again to stay in the house and maintain it as your PPR. You would probably only have to come back once in the six months but check the rules with revenue.

US3

Not discriminatory at all to only want to rent the property to people of a certain nationality.

rje66

Another option could be renting to a family who is having building work done on their own house, and need a place short term...

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407450#Comment_120407450

the €800 deal seems to only be for one nationality or am I reading it wrong?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/ukrainian_refugees_in_ireland/accommodation_recognition_payment.html

mrcheez

An option may be to rent out all rooms except 1 and fly back every now and again to stay in the house and maintain it as your PPR. You would probably only have to come back once in the six months but check the rules with revenue.

That was actually going to be another question... Ideally I'd want to keep one of the two bedrooms for myself (kept locked) and store my stuff in there that I wouldn't want the tenant to access.

I'd assume a standard renter would want access to all rooms in the house, but perhaps the ARP tenants are fine to not need every room?

Esho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407450#Comment_120407450

Irish people are the last nationality a landlord wants to rent to, as I understand.

Esho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407623#Comment_120407623

Best to take the advice to maintain it as your PPR. Overstaying is a huge issue.

Also, be prepared that whoever you rent to may well have no other option but homelessness or emigration after they must leave

Mature foreign students here for a term, so no issues with leaving, payment or antics.

ted1

After 6 months a tenant gets tenure for life , if they reintroduce an eviction ban you will be homeless when you return.

agent_88

You could rent out rooms instead. Up to 14k a year tax free, no leases or registering with the PRTB. It does have to be your primary residence though....if you are coming back alot maybe this would be an option.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120408787#Comment_120408787

Probably because there is more chance of any other nationality actually leaving the place and the landlord getting it back.

Its amazing that we have gone from nobody wanting students neare their properties if they can help it, to only wanting students because they will give the place back to you. It may be in bits, but at least you will have it back :)

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120408309#Comment_120408309

People have cottoned on to the fact that they can tell you thats all grand about you keeping the room, all the while keeping your texts and emails and taking a record of when you are or arent in the house. They will then, when the time comes, go to the RTB with all of this and say they are tenants and that you are lying. They will be helped to do this by charities and the RTB will be on their side. If you are not in it more than you are out of it then they are a tenant and you are out.

4 years and counting to get tenants out in a couple of cases I know of. Its usually 2 to 3 years. Shorter if you get someone who actually wants to leave. Leo Vradkar has just announced that its ok for people not to move out if they dont feel like it when their landlord wants their house back.

dashoonage

Youre better off doing nothing with it for 6-8 months to be honest. The risks far out weight the rewards.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409544#Comment_120409544

If it were me thats what I would do. If you need to move back into the house and cant risk a protracted legal battle to get back in, all the while paying the mortgage and possibly getting no rent, then its your only option. Any other option is rolling the dice.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409517#Comment_120409517

Absolute rubbish

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409587#Comment_120409587

If you say so. But you cant keep your head in the sand for much longer all or you will suffocate.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409913#Comment_120409913

Scaremongering is not going to solve this issue either

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409948#Comment_120409948

Its not scaremongering though is it. Its the reality of the situation. Why again is there a shortage of rental properties?

I know, i know. You are going to tell me now that landlords are not getting out and there are loads of rentals around at all and that anyone can have their property back whenever they want. Maybe if you keep saying it it will come true for you.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409961#Comment_120409961

But we weren’t talking about landlords were we? We were talking about letting out a room in your own home- something completely different- but scaremonger all you like if it makes you happy.

couldn’t be me

if this is your only house to live in upon your return I wouldn’t dream of renting it out. There’s just too much hassle if the tenants won’t budge

Xander10

The 6 month refugee option is the only one I'd consider. For reference, I know someone who done it and it took about 6 mths for the paperwork to be put in place to start the process, so you might want to bear that in mind

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410065#Comment_120410065

I cant believe you dont know by now that when they go to the RTB and say that he was away more than he was in the locked room they will win. And even on the remote chance that they dont win, Leo has told them last week that they can stay as long as they like.

If he intends to take his house back to live in when he comes home he should know what the chances of that not working out are before he puts himself in that situation.

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409156#Comment_120409156

this might actually be the best option.. allows me to keep a room to myself too for storage

I can make sure I'm back in Ireland every 5 months or so to be well within the 6 month limit

Also it means I have a place to stay when I come back and not have to rely on parents house 😁

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410065#Comment_120410065

They’re not scaremongering. The OP should not rent their house to anyone until they’ve understood it from every angle, that includes the potential for the tenants to overhold, open disputes with the RTB (whether they win or not is irrelevant it all causes delays in evicting).

If they don’t want to return home to no home to live in they’d be well advised to consider all of this. Calling it BS is unhelpful at best and dangerous misinformation at worst.

mrcheez

Do rent a room tenants have less ability to overhold/dispute etc?

Easier to evict rent a room tenants if issues?

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410195#Comment_120410195

Talk to an accountant. Revenue and the RTB have different definitions of PPR so no make sure that you meet both criteria before renting a room.

Then you have your mortgage and insurance to consider.

Wanderingmind

The easiest and least stressful thing to do is leave it empty.

What happens if you are away and your "lodger" moves in a partner or sublets?

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410417#Comment_120410417

Unfortunately this is the best advise and you can see it's been repeated a few times. The situation is totally crazy but it's got to where to it is by consistent and total mismanagement of the rental market, to the point that people would rather have a vacant room/premises rather than risking all the hassle.

Don't forget you'll also get all the abuse for being a Big Bad Greedy Landlord too, based on absolutely nothing at all.

Ginger83

I know an auctioneer who owns a property and it's sitting empty. It was only built around 05/06 and they have been approached a few times about renting but won't so what does that tell you

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410534#Comment_120410534

Why not sell it?

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410251#Comment_120410251

No mortgage thankfully, but yeah I'll prob give my accountant a shout about it.

I have several months to decide what to do so interesting to get the views in here before digging in deeper.

Someone I know has rented their place to a quiet female Chinese student, so that sounds like the ideal tenant 🤣

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410217#Comment_120410217

If it's rent a room then the person is a Licensee and not tenant, they have near zero rights. The problem is that if the OP gets people and then moves out to go traveling. When they come back they could claim that they are not Licensee's but tenants as the LL (OP) doesn't live there. They go to RTB, it takes two months to even get a hearing over the phone. They win the op loses, then they have to give them say 90 days notice to leave on day 88 they send a letter disputing it to the RTB new case, they could easily drag it out for two years. All the while they have stopped paying rent so OP is paying their mortgage.

The perception is that in all but exceptional cases the RTB will side with the occupier or tenant and not with the LL. The tenant can make any number of mistakes but if the LL makes so much as typo on a form they are screwed. If you have to give a tenant say 240 days notice to leave and you give them the correct from which you copy to the RTB in the correct way. They have 90 days to contest the notice. But the RTB will accept a case from the tenant on day 240 if they are in the mood.

This is one reason why so many LL's are selling, it's a better time to sell than be a LL.

The other is a pure rental is valued by the rental income it generates in year x N where in is between 9 and 20 years. I use 15. If you have an apartment valued at 400k on the open market but if there is tenant with lifetime right to occupy it on 2 percent incremental rent. Then if it was rent for less than 2220 a month it is devalued by having a tenant there. And only another investor will buy it. There aren't many of them

Say it was rented for 1800 then it's worth 1800 x 12 x 15 = 324,000. And the max capital growth you can ever get is 2% but it could be less if inflation is lower than 2 percent. Say you have a good tenant and you don't put the rent up for a number of years you can easily fall into this trap. They move out, you can't increase the rent for the next tenant they, then they acquire right to indefinite occupation due to new law.

OP what I'd do is delay traveling. Get people to house share with you get to know them. Save the money. Then either take short 3 month breaks or empty the house, and go traveling.

Oh and if the OP gets somebody, they could sublet it to somebody else and then OP is trying to evict somebody else's tenant.

mykrodot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410477#Comment_120410477

Landlords can't win, neither can home owners who may want to rent their house short term like OP, but are terrified to!

I have a friend who has a house in Blanchardstown, 3 storey, 4 bedroom. He has been approached countless times to rent it out but he is far too scared by what's happening in the market. Right now he is in another county minding his elderly mother who has a terminal illness, but if and when he needs his house back he is too worried he won't get tenants out. So it remains empty....... for the last 18 months. This is the monster the Government and the opposition have created . Anyone who owns a home is a villain, Govt are advising people to overhold.

SF and People before Profit are even worse. There will be no private landlords left very soon.

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411938#Comment_120411938

or choose the quiet asian student and try my luck that won't happen 😂

Former colleague was given an opportunity to work in San Francisco for a year decided to rent out two rooms in his house and keep one for himself while he was gone, he believed that it would be easy to remove the licensees on his return. His dad would check in on the place from time to time but after four months the two licensees had a disagreement and one moved out. The one that remained changed the locks and claimed that they were a tenant and not a licensee as the landlord didn't live there. It took him a over a year to get him out, he stopped paying rent when he knew he was going to be evicted, he destroyed the house and my colleague only had a deposit of one month for a single room. He had to come back from San Francisco early and had to live with his parents until he got the house back and renovated.

enricoh

Rent it out to someone refurbishing their house or else forget about it. Worst case scenario their builder takes an extra couple of months to get their house done.

thehairygrape

I’d leave it empty. Hopefully you have a family member of good friend to check it out occasionally. No wonder there’s a housing shortage when this is the best advice most posters can give. But that’s the Governments problem, not the OP’s.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120412336#Comment_120412336

The quite student may not be as quite when you try to evict them and there's nowhere for them to go. You can make €14000 tax free but you are risking loosing a lot more because the rental crisis isn't going to get better in the next few years, so anyone who moves in will be difficult to remove.

Another risk is the current government collapses and an SF coalition of populist parties changes the law with regards to the rights of licencees

With no mortgage leave it vacant.

Toby22

Hi, one family member had a nightmare when trying to move back into their own property after renting it. I have a friend who when current tenant leaves is selling up as she has had so much grief. Leave your property empty

sparkledrum

What a mess the government have made! I've gone abroad and rented rooms out in the past ( as a licensee) but I wouldn't do it now. It's too risky. I'd leave it empty or have a house sitter to mind it.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409065#Comment_120409065

Because the contract is a licence the 6 months rule does not apply. Also you do NOT have to register with the RTB . The €800 / mt be age USC is tax free but probably subject to the other taxes

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414131#Comment_120414131

It is the county council that pays the €800 and not the tenant. What I do not know is that if there is a one year licence agreement in place and the co council do not want to extend it for the same tenant then is it between the landlord and licensee only re getting the tenant out of the LL wants the property back

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414131#Comment_120414131

If it’s a license rather than tenancy, why would there be a problem with over holding? The owner needs only to give reasonable notice, if the licensee refuses to leave, then their stuff can just be put outside the door. A licensee doesn’t have the protection of the RTA so no reason to stand on ceremony.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414170#Comment_120414170

As has been said here already if the licencee disputes with the rtb and claims the OP wasn’t living there at all then it becomes a farce.

The fact is inviting anyone into your house to rent it (or a room therein) is not 100% risk free and the OP may well encounter problems on his return.

If this is their only place to live when they’re home again it’s not a good idea to rent it.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414108#Comment_120414108

They would be a tenant as opposed to a licence.

*if you insist that they are a licencee (which they are not) they can request to become a tenant. Which can’t be reasonably refused

under which basis are they a licencee?

https://www.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/types-of-tenancies-and-agreements/licences

the landlord is not lining with them.

mrcheez

An apartment block near me rents out exclusively to a large corporation (probably Google) and new tenants move in regularly and stay for 2-3 months.

Maybe something like that might be better?

Not sure how you go about arranging something like that though.

Interesting reading,

depressing really that the best option is you’re better off leaving it empty in a housing crisis with record rents to be made.

mrcheez

I'm surprised that the Ukrainian refugee ARP scheme (which I originally thought would be less risky due to govt involvement) has similar potential issues... although probably less risk of non-payment of the €800

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414170#Comment_120414170

Imagine OP is off on their travels while the licensee is in the house. Licensee is recording all the dates the OP is there. OP throws all their stuff out on the road and boots them out. They go to the RTB, RTB find that they were a tenant. A lovely bath in the newspapers for the landlord along with $$$$$ he has to pay to the now tenant, who can probably move back in at that point if they feel like it too :O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414563#Comment_120414563

The companies tend to want longer term leases and probably wouldn't be interested if the OP wanted to keep their stuff in the house.