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Is the modern economy just...

  • 22-03-2023 8:20pm
    Registered Users Posts: 6,200 ✭✭✭

    ...a machine designed to tie as many people as possible into 30 year mortgages?

    14bn of mortgages were drawn down in 2022, all brand new shiny fractional reserve money, much of it ending up in government coffers within 1 or two changes of hands.

    All those people will be quietly slaving away for the next 30 years providing copious amounts of passive income for the banks and the government. Not protesting. No time to wonder why they are trapped in a **** system for the rest of their days. Nicely dependent on their employers. No resources had to be plundered from the earth to make it happen since a large portion of these mortgages were for houses built in the 70s, 50s and even earlier so even Cabbage Ryan is being kept happy while large swathes of the population are being made eejits of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,579 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck

    "They" want to get you hooked on credit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,903 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005

    What would people do to pass the time if they weren't slaving?

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,200 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Leisurely strolls in the woods

    Planting pampas grass outside house

    Smoking weed

    Tearing around the place on jetskis

    Whatever you are into

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,776 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject

    Where would they live though?

    I agree property prices are currently insane, but people need a secure roof over their heads and rents are at insane levels too.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,829 ✭✭✭✭AMKC

    Watching T.V or shows on the Internet. There has never been a better time to be into a show if any kind there is so much good stuff out there and just not enough time go watch it all.

    As someone else said going for nice walks exploring new places, swimming, jogging running going to the gym or doing Yoga or Rakki whatever you are into.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭Roger Mellie Man on the Telly


    That said I enjoy a bit of the old slaving

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,145 ✭✭✭✭Strumms

    when most people don’t need to work, that’s a problem for the money men.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom

    Debt servitude has been about for millennials. Expanded during the Agricultural and Industrial Revolutions. Wonders what impacts may occur with the Information Age?

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭crusd

    What might you suggest as an alternative? Free house for everyone? At least with a mortgage you should end up with secure accommodation that you own when you are older and can no longer work. Otherwise it’s rent until you die.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,346 ✭✭✭BrianD3

    People need housing but they don't need 4000 sq foot muck mansions, a new kitchen every few years, knocking walls and putting in huge windows after watching a Dermot Bannon programme, an energy retrofit that will never pay for itself in their lifetime etc.

    Lots of vested interests make lots of money out of exploiting human weakness when it comes to property - and for historical reasons, Irish people are particularly weak in this regard. People are proud of the fact that they moved out of the family home at age 20 and started handing over most of their money to landlords or mortgage providers. They then sneer at others, particularly men, for "living with their Mammy who probably still does their laundry".

    Also let's face it, a lot of property madness and resultant debt servitude is driven by the female partner in a couple. She wants her "dream" kitchen where everything is EXACTLY where she wants it. Cue plumbing/electrical work, digging up floors and knocking of walls with a loan to pay for it all. Her partner and her slave away in jobs they hate to pay back the loan. Then a few years later she'll change her mind having watched some Dermot Bannon or Hugh Wallace programme on TV and off we go again.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,987 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa

    Hang on OP.

    Last week you said that corporations were going to use AI to make us all unemployed and homeless, and take all our property from us:

    Now you're saying that the entire point of the capitalist system that these corporations promote is to tie us to property ownership funded by credit (that we have to have jobs to pay for).

    Would you not at least stick to wearing just one tinfoil hat?

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,944 ✭✭✭silliussoddius

    Bit of a whiff of you’ll own nothing and be happy of this one, tbh.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭downtheroad

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Allinall

    Some people actually enjoy working.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad

    The economy is booming ,but we have a housing crisis, high rents ,high house prices , yes you may have a good job but you,ll have to pay 200k plus for a house in urban area,s ,citys .dublin or other citys. its a universal problem, where the best jobs are located is where housing is expensive.housing is very expensive in london, new york, san fran. You have a choice buy a house for 100k in a rural area, commute to work or work from home.its understandable most people would prefer to buy a house vs pay high rent for mediocre rental .most mortgages are 25 years, do you want to be paying rent when you are 50. I dont think most people will build expensive extensions with a new kitchen unless they can afford it , Theres a program on rte build your own house that shows how to save money ,buy an old house,than build and modernise it yourself .its on the rte player

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,274 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump

    Speaking of economy and slavery, do you have the record on for the longest list of jobs above your avatar?

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,200 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious

    That is the new system. The debt slavery one has been in place for many years

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,903 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005

    It's all a myth. How could €14 billion be borrowed in a year for mortgages, when nobody can afford to buy a home?

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,019 ✭✭✭✭rob316

    A house for 100k in a rural area? 200k in a suburban area? What is this 2009?

    Have you any idea how much renovating a **** box house costs?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,903 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005

    There is a BBC TV programme, Homes under the Hammer, which shows plenty of examples on how to do up houses in bad condition. The budget can be low, in a lot of cases.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,200 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious

    It was possible before prices of material went through the roof and our fearless overlords decided to mandate that we use a qualified nail hitter to hang every picture on the wall

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,776 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject

    That's the UK though, labour is more expensive here and prices for materials have increased dramatically.

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,903 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005

    I don't know anything about doing renovations. But probably as much as people who throw out the stock phrases like "increased dramatically", or "went through the roof". Would anyone have the comparison say on how much a basic type kitchen cost before, and how much it is now?

    In that BBC programme, some of the work is done by the buyers themselves and family members. Are there rules against doing that in Ireland, say tiling and painting?

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭Geuze

    The mortgages drawn down are matched with deposits from customers who save with banks.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭Geuze

    Here is a chart of FTB mortgages, credit to Seamus Coffey.

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,903 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005

    There is a science which says that money is created when banks give out loans. And it is not linked to the money they have on deposit. There are occasional posts on Boards from people who announce it as some big revelation. The other side which they usually fail to mention is that money is destroyed when a loan is repaid. Plenty on Google about it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭Geuze

    Yes, I am familiar with money/credit creation, via the deposit-lending process.

    It is linked to deposits.

    During the regular money/credit creation process, loans and deposits are accumulated.

    Yes, it is not a revelation, it is a normal part of the banking system.

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,903 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005

    It should be simple, but as online sources say it can be contentious.

    "There is a common idea – even taught in many economics textbooks and academic papers – that banks are simply middlemen (‘intermediaries’) between savers and borrowers. But this is inaccurate. As the Bank of England describes:

    “One common misconception is that banks act simply as intermediaries, lending out the deposits that savers place with them. In this view deposits are typically ‘created’ by the saving decisions of households, and banks then ‘lend out’ those existing deposits to borrowers, for example to companies looking to finance investment or individuals wanting to purchase houses.

    “In fact, when households choose to save more money in bank accounts, those deposits come simply at the expense of deposits that would have otherwise gone to companies in payment for goods and services. Saving does not by itself increase the deposits or ‘funds available’ for banks to lend. Indeed, viewing banks simply as intermediaries ignores the fact that, in reality in the modern economy, commercial banks are the creators of deposit money. This article explains how, rather than banks lending out deposits that are placed with them, the act of lending creates deposits — the reverse of the sequence typically described in textbooks.(3)” (Bank of England, Money Creation in the Modern Economy)"

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,200 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious

    They should not fail to mention the destruction as this is part of the inherent evil in the system.

    You see when some eejit takes out a 300,000 loan they have to pay back 450,000 or similar due to interest. The missing 150,000 does not even exist yet in the economy. The eejits ability to repay said loan depends on the banks continuing to issue more,newer,bigger loans all the while he is paying it off.

    If there is a "credit crunch" or banks colluding to stop issuing new loans they can take the chance to ratchet a bunch of free houses out of fellas like the aforementioned eejit who now can't pay back their loan through no fault of their own