Is the modern economy just...

Ubbquittious

...a machine designed to tie as many people as possible into 30 year mortgages?

14bn of mortgages were drawn down in 2022, all brand new shiny fractional reserve money, much of it ending up in government coffers within 1 or two changes of hands.

All those people will be quietly slaving away for the next 30 years providing copious amounts of passive income for the banks and the government. Not protesting. No time to wonder why they are trapped in a **** system for the rest of their days. Nicely dependent on their employers. No resources had to be plundered from the earth to make it happen since a large portion of these mortgages were for houses built in the 70s, 50s and even earlier so even Cabbage Ryan is being kept happy while large swathes of the population are being made eejits of.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058289318/is-the-modern-economy-just

Could be worse- could be renting.

Montage of Feck

"They" want to get you hooked on credit.

dxhound2005

What would people do to pass the time if they weren't slaving?

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120389105#Comment_120389105

DXing

Leisurely strolls in the woods

Planting pampas grass outside house

Smoking weed

Tearing around the place on jetskis

Whatever you are into

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120389170#Comment_120389170

Where would they live though?

I agree property prices are currently insane, but people need a secure roof over their heads and rents are at insane levels too.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120389105#Comment_120389105

Watching T.V or shows on the Internet. There has never been a better time to be into a show if any kind there is so much good stuff out there and just not enough time go watch it all.

As someone else said going for nice walks exploring new places, swimming, jogging running going to the gym or doing Yoga or Rakki whatever you are into.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120389105#Comment_120389105

Humping.

That said I enjoy a bit of the old slaving

Strumms

when most people don’t need to work, that’s a problem for the money men.

Fathom

Debt servitude has been about for millennials. Expanded during the Agricultural and Industrial Revolutions. Wonders what impacts may occur with the Information Age?

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058289318/is-the-modern-economy-just

What might you suggest as an alternative? Free house for everyone? At least with a mortgage you should end up with secure accommodation that you own when you are older and can no longer work. Otherwise it’s rent until you die.

BrianD3

People need housing but they don't need 4000 sq foot muck mansions, a new kitchen every few years, knocking walls and putting in huge windows after watching a Dermot Bannon programme, an energy retrofit that will never pay for itself in their lifetime etc.

Lots of vested interests make lots of money out of exploiting human weakness when it comes to property - and for historical reasons, Irish people are particularly weak in this regard. People are proud of the fact that they moved out of the family home at age 20 and started handing over most of their money to landlords or mortgage providers. They then sneer at others, particularly men, for "living with their Mammy who probably still does their laundry".

Also let's face it, a lot of property madness and resultant debt servitude is driven by the female partner in a couple. She wants her "dream" kitchen where everything is EXACTLY where she wants it. Cue plumbing/electrical work, digging up floors and knocking of walls with a loan to pay for it all. Her partner and her slave away in jobs they hate to pay back the loan. Then a few years later she'll change her mind having watched some Dermot Bannon or Hugh Wallace programme on TV and off we go again.

Gregor Samsa

Hang on OP.

Last week you said that corporations were going to use AI to make us all unemployed and homeless, and take all our property from us:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364234#Comment_120364234

Now you're saying that the entire point of the capitalist system that these corporations promote is to tie us to property ownership funded by credit (that we have to have jobs to pay for).

Would you not at least stick to wearing just one tinfoil hat?

silliussoddius

Bit of a whiff of you’ll own nothing and be happy of this one, tbh.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120391122#Comment_120391122

How much did your wife's extension cost?

Allinall

Some people actually enjoy working.

riclad

The economy is booming ,but we have a housing crisis, high rents ,high house prices , yes you may have a good job but you,ll have to pay 200k plus for a house in urban area,s ,citys .dublin or other citys. its a universal problem, where the best jobs are located is where housing is expensive.housing is very expensive in london, new york, san fran. You have a choice buy a house for 100k in a rural area, commute to work or work from home.its understandable most people would prefer to buy a house vs pay high rent for mediocre rental .most mortgages are 25 years, do you want to be paying rent when you are 50. I dont think most people will build expensive extensions with a new kitchen unless they can afford it , Theres a program on rte build your own house that shows how to save money ,buy an old house,than build and modernise it yourself .its on the rte player

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120390268#Comment_120390268

Speaking of economy and slavery, do you have the record on boards.ie for the longest list of jobs above your avatar?

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120391705#Comment_120391705

That is the new system. The debt slavery one has been in place for many years

dxhound2005

It's all a myth. How could €14 billion be borrowed in a year for mortgages, when nobody can afford to buy a home?

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392568#Comment_120392568

A house for 100k in a rural area? 200k in a suburban area? What is this 2009?

Have you any idea how much renovating a **** box house costs?

dxhound2005

There is a BBC TV programme, Homes under the Hammer, which shows plenty of examples on how to do up houses in bad condition. The budget can be low, in a lot of cases.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006v5kb

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392813#Comment_120392813

It was possible before prices of material went through the roof and our fearless overlords decided to mandate that we use a qualified nail hitter to hang every picture on the wall

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392813#Comment_120392813

That's the UK though, labour is more expensive here and prices for materials have increased dramatically.

dxhound2005

I don't know anything about doing renovations. But probably as much as people who throw out the stock phrases like "increased dramatically", or "went through the roof". Would anyone have the comparison say on how much a basic type kitchen cost before, and how much it is now?

In that BBC programme, some of the work is done by the buyers themselves and family members. Are there rules against doing that in Ireland, say tiling and painting?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058289318/is-the-modern-economy-just

The mortgages drawn down are matched with deposits from customers who save with banks.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392693#Comment_120392693

Here is a chart of FTB mortgages, credit to Seamus Coffey.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393227#Comment_120393227

There is a science which says that money is created when banks give out loans. And it is not linked to the money they have on deposit. There are occasional posts on Boards from people who announce it as some big revelation. The other side which they usually fail to mention is that money is destroyed when a loan is repaid. Plenty on Google about it.

Geuze

Yes, I am familiar with money/credit creation, via the deposit-lending process.

It is linked to deposits.

During the regular money/credit creation process, loans and deposits are accumulated.

Yes, it is not a revelation, it is a normal part of the banking system.

dxhound2005

It should be simple, but as online sources say it can be contentious.

"There is a common idea – even taught in many economics textbooks and academic papers – that banks are simply middlemen (‘intermediaries’) between savers and borrowers. But this is inaccurate. As the Bank of England describes:

“One common misconception is that banks act simply as intermediaries, lending out the deposits that savers place with them. In this view deposits are typically ‘created’ by the saving decisions of households, and banks then ‘lend out’ those existing deposits to borrowers, for example to companies looking to finance investment or individuals wanting to purchase houses.

“In fact, when households choose to save more money in bank accounts, those deposits come simply at the expense of deposits that would have otherwise gone to companies in payment for goods and services. Saving does not by itself increase the deposits or ‘funds available’ for banks to lend. Indeed, viewing banks simply as intermediaries ignores the fact that, in reality in the modern economy, commercial banks are the creators of deposit money. This article explains how, rather than banks lending out deposits that are placed with them, the act of lending creates deposits — the reverse of the sequence typically described in textbooks.(3)” (Bank of England, Money Creation in the Modern Economy)"

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393284#Comment_120393284

They should not fail to mention the destruction as this is part of the inherent evil in the system.

You see when some eejit takes out a 300,000 loan they have to pay back 450,000 or similar due to interest. The missing 150,000 does not even exist yet in the economy. The eejits ability to repay said loan depends on the banks continuing to issue more,newer,bigger loans all the while he is paying it off.

If there is a "credit crunch" or banks colluding to stop issuing new loans they can take the chance to ratchet a bunch of free houses out of fellas like the aforementioned eejit who now can't pay back their loan through no fault of their own

riclad

see here

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/terraced-house-church-street-miltown-malbay-co-clare/4671907

yes ,i,m aware it can cost 100-150k to renovate an old house , by the way you can get many building materials cheap on adverts.ie or donedeal

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393439#Comment_120393439

Yes, I am a person of principle like yourself. I lived in a tent for 53 years to save up the money for my house. Never had an evil mortgage.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392671#Comment_120392671

People buy a house now and pay it off over years. Why? Because the alternative is to rent and save money for a long period in order to buy, which doesn't make much sense.

Due to this demand to buy houses now and pay off later, services naturally exist to meet that demand.

As a country gets wealthier, one of the side effects can be relatively higher priced property (more dual income buyers, higher quality and more expensive building materials, larger houses, property being a scarce resource, etc)

It's not some nefarious conspiracy, it's just basic demand

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393463#Comment_120393463

Fair play. As an avid wild camper I applaud you. I don't think I could do 53 years myself

Fathom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392605#Comment_120392605

Call Guinness!

Andrewf20

Work is good for you, generally. We were born to work. Even millionaires who could retire in an instant continue to work. It give us routine, a purpose, a social outlet and a sense of achievement.

For all of societies issues, its still a pretty good time to be alive, in the western world at least. Has there ever been a better time to be alive? Maybe the 1990s. And I suspect it may be the best time ever as in 100+ years global and other ills will ramp the pain.

riclad

the reason people take out mortgages is to escape the trap of paying high rent to live in mediocre rental units , in theory paying a mortgage can be cheaper than paying rent in the long term .the last things the banks want is a credit crunch or a recession that would reduce their profits .unless theres a recession or they lose their jobs most people end up paying off the mortgage .banks dont really want to be taking houses off anyone unless they have no choice

we saw this in 2008 when house prices fell, banks still gave out loans but it was harder to get a loan ,you would need a larger deposit 10-20 per cent to get a loan. some people opted to declare bankruptcy rather than be stuck paying a large mortgage on a house whose value had fallen by 60 per cent.

we have a housing crisis ,rents are very high versus average income, we are not in a recession ,we have a high rate of employment ,most layoffs are happening in the tech sector, as the long tech boom is ending .

riclad

See build your own home on rte player the people seem to do most of the work themselves with the help of an expert builder . the average budget seems to be 150k re renovation upgrading the price of houses varys widely in each county obviously Dublin is the most expensive place to buy a house

To build an extension you need to get planning permission and plans drawn up by an architect usually

I understand building materials have gone up in price since 2020

One thing I can’t understand about Ireland economy is that in 2008 - 2012ish you couldn’t get a job anywhere.

about 5 - 6 year’s later places can’t get staff.

Wtf happened