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So Prime Time done a piece this evening on retail crime and how its only getting worse and how

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,243 ✭✭✭Mav11


    If you actually look at the show it wasn’t the woman with the 2 kids that is causing the problems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    don't have RTE but last time I was in Dublin I was in Fairview in the little Tesco Metro and there was an addict woman shoving whatever she could into her jacket and then telling some other woman about her two kids. I've seen these types in Dublin many times and they need serious help, not their dole to be docked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,327 ✭✭✭Tow


    Finish off Thornton Hall, American Super Max style. We don't need to lock people up like in America. We need to start with short sharp shocks, rather than slap on the wrist clocking up another conviction.

    It is demoralising for everyone evolved (public, shopkeepers, Garda etc) to have to put up with a small number of out of control people.

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,243 ✭✭✭Mav11


    Yes I agree. But as I said that is not the focus of the show or the discussion here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭thomil


    Except Ireland hasn't been doing any of that, not by a long shot. Housing estates are uniformly dreary affairs, shoved into every corner without any thought wasted on services in the area, walled off from their surroundings and without access to amenities. If you don't have a car, you're screwed. Public spaces, where they exist, have been sanitized to the degree where there are no places for kids to sit down and hang out, often being no more than empty open areas filled with either grass or pavement. There are virtually no activities available for teenagers apart from GAA or other team sports, I haven't seen any youth centers worth their name, certainly none that operate without some sort of ulterior agenda. As for schools, they continue to be contaminated by numerous religious orders and organizations, often staffed with teachers that are in no way qualified for their jobs, under resourced as well as being extremely tightly regimented in their curriculum, doing little if anything to actually engage with students. This is also borne out by wider society, where getting a proper education is seen as something to be mocked and derided, not celebrated.

    Then, there's the societal issues. To put it bluntly, there's no sense of community in this country beyond platitudes. Ireland is suffering from the same epidemic of pathological individualism and a misplaced sense of superiority that is already destroying the US and the UK. Everyone only cares about themselves and doesn't give a flying f**k about anyone outside of their immediate family. Where there is "civic" engagement, it is usually to prevent something from being developed, the ongoing protests against increased cycling facilities, public transport projects, flood defenses and similar initiatives are a clear indication of this. And even if an initiative gets wide support, such as increasing capacity in the prison system or hiring more gardaí, no one is willing to pay even a single cent in extra taxes to finance these measures. Instead, all you'll hear is hysterical screaming that [INSERT UNPOPULAR GROUP HERE] should foot the bill as they're getting too much money anyway.

    Sure, there's a definite argument to be made that the Irish law enforcement and judicial systems are too soft. There's definitely a need for a more aggressive attitude towards prosecuting offenders, there need to be minimum sentences introduced, but these measures alone will not solve the issue. Ireland as a society is thoroughly dysfunctional and barring a complete replacement of the political leadership, the civil service and of significant parts of the population, I can't see how this will change anytime soon.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    the far right may rise but there'll still be enough people in government who vote against taking dole from poor people for committing a crime. unless we get some totalitarian thing going on, which i'm sure would be to the liking of this site but i think we're a long way off it in ireland anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,365 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...so if you rob something cause you cant afford it, you should somehow pay more for it, hows that gonna work?

    ....filling up prisons will definitely resolve these issues, definitely!

    ....oh and when you stress your society to the point a growing number of people are unable to adequately meet some of their critical of needs, housing, health care etc etc, crime increases, maybe we should start there!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I suggested shooting them directly. I'm fairly sure that would deter most people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Bring in community service for these offences, then tell them perpetrators that its 3 strikes of community services then you're off to jail. Martin Nolan had no problem jailing a woman this week who stole €600k from her employer (and she deservedly so goes to jail for that) but there's no jail time for those stealing from a shop. Is there a theft monetary value that has to be exceeded before jail is on the cards?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,365 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    whats the craic with some and filling up jails, they must love paying even more taxes to run them!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    If their income is coming from the state then its a free house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    another lock up the kids for messing and everyone on social welfare is a crimiunal thread 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Allinall




  • Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭thegame983


    Unless there is a hate angle to pontificate on the powers that be don't care about crime.

    It doesn't effect them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Allinall




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Ok, if their only income is social welfare i.e. they don't work for it, then is it not a case of money effectively being transferred between two state institutions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,327 ✭✭✭Tow


    The problem with out current jails is the staff to prisoner ratio. That is why I mentioned American Super Max style, minimal staff are required. In saying that I dont want is jails to become a profit making industry or a long term solution like in the states.

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603


    These scrotes are why I have to shout into a microphone hole in a plexiglass window when I just want some snacks on a sat night.

    Its so demeaning for all involved.

    To have to guide some poor foreign lad around by instruction to get the large bar, no the raisin and biscuit one. Yeah two of them, no two... two ... yeah of the raisin and biscuit, yeah that one. Two please. Yes two, of the raisin and biscuit, no large. Large. Two. Please. Thank you.

    All because of thieving layabouts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    They dont want to make that work. If they are really stuck come to me. i'll have the two systems linked by the morning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    The state already docks people's dole if they don't engage in back to work schemes.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭JohnnyFortune


    Hug a thug has been trialed for years now, we've more feral scum than ever. Get rid of the carrot and bring out the big stick.



  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭JohnnyFortune


    Do they? Why does DCC have millions in arrears if this is the case?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭thomil


    What's the obsession with jails? Given the prevalence of electronic surveillance measures and geofencing, banishment should be an option as well:

    "In lieu of a custodial sentence, you will be sent to [INSERT REMOTE AREA HERE] for the duration of your probation period, where you will be required to stay within [AREA X]. Your position will be monitored at all times, as will your communications. You will be fitted with an electronic position tag. Contact with your former associates or family, failure to remain within your allocated area, removal of your tag or any other attempt to evade these or other conditions of your monitored release without due cause and documentation will result in incarceration for the full duration of your sentence. You will be required to check in with your local garda station once per week and any necessary exception to the rules of your confinement, such as for medical appointments or court appearances, must also be reported to your local garda station and are subject to approval."

    There are situations where jail is warranted, such as anytime violence is involved or an activity results in the injury of a third party, and I do in general believe that a tougher approach is needed. But from what I can see, jail sentences don't really reduce the chance of repeat offences here in Ireland. Removal of a perpetrator from their known environment and their previous associates and family seems to be a better option, particularly if it is coupled with some sort of employment program or job. It will not work for everyone, but I can imagine that there are quite a few people wouldn't want to go back to their old life once they've seen that there's another way of living out there.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    except you're wrong, far less poverty in ireland now than there used to be, and areas especially in the inner city of Dublin that used to be full of "feral scum" and you couldn't even walk through in the 90s have greatly improved, basically because people have more money and opportunities.

    so keep up the hugging Johnny!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    The amount of money that retail makes in Ireland is insane, hire some "Proper" security (not some oul lad at the door)

    M&S and Pennys are a perfect example of good security.

    Listening to people who are most likely very wealthy whining about some skanger robbing an item that they trying to sell for 3 times the price they bought (minimum) it for, is irritating. They just write it off as a loss, it costs them very little.

    If staff are employed by the shop that are not security, it's there job to "report" and that's it. Anyone taking on criminals is an idiot (There's to many crazy's out there right now)



  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭JohnnyFortune


    I grew up in the 90s. You could happily walk around town without bother, as I did as a teenager most Saturdays. There was on zombie apocalypse gauntlet from Connolly to O'Connell Street like there is now, there was no junkie playground like the boardwalk.



  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    rubbish i do be out an about in town and never have any troble just keep your head down and keep to yourself and you wont have an problems



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    There was a huge heroin problem in the 90s. I actually got held up by 2 lads with a syringe in 96 when I was 15. Sherriff st, Foley st, Dominic Street, Summerhill, you'd be mad to even walk through them back then. Not like that at all now. Much improvement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I mean not every store is a Penny's or m&s, some are small businesses or franchises that could be just scraping by, you don't know and nor is it relevant. If the store is overpriced l, go elsewhere. The cost of thievery is felt by all of us, from the prices of the goods to the price of insurance, to the tax needed to pay for the gardai, the courts and the prisons. I have never stolen a thing in my life and I'm mid thirties, why is that hard? Why have such low respect for other people and their property. The solution is that owners should be given more legal leeway to protect their property, the cheapest and simplest solution is to be allowed to physically protect your property without fear of legal prosecution. The fact that these thieves are immune from prosecution creates an unfair advantage in favour of the thief, this needs to be evened up.

    If this was 200 years ago, you would find them hanging from the local bridge as a warning to others.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭JohnnyFortune


    Keep your head down and don't draw attention. It's the capital city ffs, not the DMZ between North and South Korea. Expect more of your country ffs, rather than cowering with your head down hoping you don't draw the ire of some scum.



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