Supersoil- Snake oil?

Bangoverthebar

Have you seen the ads and all the articles about Supersoil.

There is an ad/article about 9% yield increase in uk lab trial

I dont call that independent data and im under the impression this is a snake oil product.

Any one used it?

I had the same view until I got chatting to a lad who uses all the time. He said it works well if only spreading dung, going with the grass harrow and topping weeds soon as they show up. Using chemicals completely defeats the purpose of using supersoil. I wouldn't be taking a chance on it and hoping for a great crop of silage, he reckons it will take 2 or 3 year to come into its own. I have a few 2 acre fields on out farm and am going to try it on them as I only put replacement weanlings on it so there's no demand for high grass yield.

Packrat

It's working for the lad making it anyway.

Some demand for it this year with all the newly organic people trying to shortcut the system.

I'm definitely tempted but I think it'll be going out in strips to see if there's a difference.

Say my name

There are cheaper alternatives.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-1ST1TzBYr4

This guy made a good brew. Only mistake he made was he applied it in sunshine and on baked ground.

Pick soil from below a deciduous tree. Oak or beech is good and preferably in a wood where no chemicals were applied. Pull away the top few inches and use the leaf mold below.

If you are close to the sea, use seawater instead of the seasalt. But if not use the sea salt.

If the brew goes too far and the microbes die. It's still a useful fertiliser.

Use white cotton pillowcases for the cheese cloth.

funkey_monkey

What is the difference with Bacteriosol?

Water John

Bacteriosol does similar work. that has been around for a number of years.

endainoz

What I find dodgy about it is that it has no ingredients displayed on the packages or anywhere on the website, "guarding their secret recipe" as they put it.

And what's even more surprising is that they got it fully certified as organic. They do however have great marketing behind them, the ads are popping up everywhere.

funkey_monkey

Did someone say on the Fertiliser thread that this was going to be trialed by Teagasc this year? Wonder if a mod could extract those posts out into this to collate it all?

For all their marketing, a lack of credible research analysis makes me file this in the 'Too Good to be True' tray. I don't put much credence in the farmer recommendations as I don't know them personally and nor do I know the relationship between them and SuperSoil.

It might be legit, but TBH if it was all that they say it was then the dept. would be all over it like a rash. I've read the adverts on FB and I don't think I've ever seen a query response where they have said its effect would be nill, marginal or unsuitable.

That being said there does seem to be something in the use of microbes.

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058288801/supersoil-snake-oil

I had asked them in the past about independent research and the answer was that they do their own independent field trials using NRM labs in UK.

You could try it on pasture, but I wouldn't be trying it on the silage ground until a bit more proof. Might be that it needs a couple of years to get going properly, but it needs someone truly independent to undertake a soil/grass analysis, applies it and then subsequently takes another soil/analysis and compares to prove the effect.

MrMusician18

A load of red flags with this stuff. No peer reviewed, only testimonials and advertorials. Nothing about what is in it, nothing substantial about how it works, only magic microorganisms. Lastly this company seems a small operation, not a biosciences company. While indeed it's not beyond the realm of possibility that a small operator in Louth has discovered a magic formula that has evaded agriscience but...

Personally, I wouldn't use it until there is a full public understanding of what it contains and how it works.

It’s a bad sign when you email the company and the ceo replies

farmerphil135

we used a similar product on tillage ground and the 1st year nothing 2nd year complete turn around in the ground and crop. It’s rented ground in long term tillage and when ploughed you could find the previous years crop residue that all changed the 2nd year. Planning on trying some on grassland this year and have used more of it on tillage ground last year so hoping to see the results this year.

The organic lads seem to rage about earthworms and the benefits of having them.

How can you promote them? I am guessing plenty of fym?

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380162#Comment_120380162

What that Bacteriosol you used Phil?

farmerphil135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381485#Comment_120381485

No it’s stuff made/sold by nova Q same crowd we get the slurry bacteria off.

also to be clear on the forum we do promotional work for them.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380309#Comment_120380309

Yeah FYM will definitely promote them. Avoiding sprays where possible would definitely encourage them too.

Water John

The worms that operate vertically (anecic) are at the apex of the life in the soil. First item is to get the balance of bacteria and fungii correct. As said above, of all the 'icides' applied as sprays, fungicides do the most damage.

The cotton underpants 90 day test is a good one to try. That is burying it, not wearing it for 90 days😉

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384190#Comment_120384190

I am against using sprays. I try to even avoid dosing unless absolutely needed as they say young stock develop a tolerance to worms etc over time.

I would like to over seed a bit of variety of species that have tap roots in to pastures with the goal of improving soil health and providing drought resistance

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380309#Comment_120380309

Getting your pH right is a big help too. FYM covered above, cides covered above. Limit compaction, Seaweed, humic, fulvic, molasses, all feed the ground and provide food for worms. Even a drop of coffee in the mix does no harm and feeds the craturs. Some people report biological treating slurry before spreading is a help too. But mostly anyway it's going out in bands now so it's more friendly than it was.

patsy_mccabe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385044#Comment_120385044

....The cotton underpants 90 day test is a good one to try. That is burying it, not wearing it for 90 days😉

Now he tells me 😥

Bangoverthebar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385464#Comment_120385464

I read a lot about Seaweed, humic, fulvic, molasses all working wonders.

Are there independent studies on this, are teagasc or anyone looking into it.

I met a neighbour on monday who was raving about humic, he hasnt spread slurry, fym or fert on his land in 7 years but thinks it wiĺl be as fertile as any after humic.

Im a non beliver

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386169#Comment_120386169

You'll have to delve into (I hate the term) the "regenerative" agriculture world. This all started in the US I believe. I could be wrong on that as I'm using products from Australia and China. So they're well clued up there also.

Has the neighbour been using humic acid for 7 years or just nothing for the 7 and thinks this now will replace all?

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386169#Comment_120386169

You'd be waiting for a long time for teagasc to get on board with some like this. They have way too many connections with the fert industry anyway. It's only very recently that they have got on board the clover train, about 30 years too late but here we are.

Water John

Yes, poor Mr Humphries ploughed a lonely furrow in Teagasc, for years. Slurry is a dead acidic material, definitely needs some treatment in the tank.

Bangoverthebar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386366#Comment_120386366

He has used nothing at all.

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386583#Comment_120386583

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388549#Comment_120388549

endainoz you might not have to wait that long at all.

Water John

When they do it in NZ, we will eagerly follow like sheep.

Do they have teagasc in New Zealand? If not maybe we could send them over and save a few bob?

Say my name

I was at the soil health info/ teagasc wokeness coming of age day thingy in Johnstown Castle recently.

There was a bit of a discussion on straw chopping and the teagasc advisor mentioned about nitrogen probably needing to be spread to help the straw breakdown especially in min/no till.

Me with my big gob (the dairy farmer) suggested instead of nitrogen and wasting your allowance that maybe humic acid and molasses be applied to aid breakdown. In fairness the advisor was very open to the idea and they'll have to look at it. Not in fairness, there was a seller of humic acid present and tillage farmer and who should be all over this but is seemingly not on their home farm never said a peep. The frustration continues when a well known tillage farm manager with experience gave that bit of info to a dept official and I was there when he did so years ago.

And yet here we are years later and a teagasc advisor saying that nitrogen will probably have to be spread to aid breakdown and a dairy farmer telling teagasc and tillage farmers present what to do. 🤷‍♂️

eusap

Was there a guy in Laois who was collecting green waste and shredding it up and spreading on his tillage fields to improve soil quality?

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120374400#Comment_120374400

Specific case: I've a tank of slurry to go out on silage ground in May after sheep have gone away from it.

If I made a concoction like this guy did, would it be better off going out ahead of the slurry or after?

Or could it (or anything else) be added to the tank before spreading to help.

I was considering supersoil.

Organic so no bag.

Thanks in advance.

orm0nd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392354#Comment_120392354

super soil needs to be added to the slurry 3 months before spreading , so your'e a bit tight for time

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392702#Comment_120392702

I had actually considered spraying it on the field rather than adding Supersoil to the slurry, I was more wondering if a solution like this guy made would be helpful either sprayed on or added to the tank.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392354#Comment_120392354

Make the LAB as described in posts here for the slurry. Do it now and it'll have time to work. LAB (Lactic Acid Bacteria) is both aerobic and anaerobic. It's the stuff that preserves your silage and as the name implies is acidic in nature. So it brings down the pH of the slurry and preserves more of the nitrogen just by this act alone. People apply it straight to ground and they see a benefit in plant growth. It deepens and opens up the soil, brings more life in itself and makes more carbon in the soil. And this is before it's added with the slurry medium with the nutrients that brings. Go with LAB. It'll cost minimal. Nothing lost.

You could go with JMS either before or after. Makes no difference with one application.

I was going to suggest making the LAB, adding to the tank and then just before spreading add humic acid. But tbh if the LAB is anyway good at all it'll bring it's own humus element when it's applied through the slurry to soil.

orm0nd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393061#Comment_120393061

sorry, misread your post

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393281#Comment_120393281

Thank you, I assume it makes no difference that the cattle will be adding to that slurry until May 1st or thereabouts? Tank only half full yet as I spread a full one in Feb.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393818#Comment_120393818

None. All the better.

BorneTobyWilde

Used coffee grounds

PoorFarmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393281#Comment_120393281

Is there a calculation for the amount of LAB that would need to be added to the slurry? I.E. will a person need 5l of LAB per bay for 3 months for it to be worthwhile using. (Assuming it will need time to work anaerobically before spreading) I'm guessing some added at housing and possibly a top-up halfway through housing season would be the ideal scenario.

Is LAB the stuff been made in the video a few posts ago?

PoorFarmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394903#Comment_120394903

LAB is Lactobacillus usually made with rice wash and milk.

A rudimentary run through of the process here https://www.thenutrientcompany.com/post/how-to-culture-lactobacillus-lab-for-horticultural-use

Track9

I have seen Supetsoil Recipies & Contents from Australia India etc.Contents include Bat Guano,Shredded Coir ( fibre,bugs,humus etc.Irish supersoil doesn't indicate contents.if I was directed to some scientific trials or at min I wud consider Superdoil.Sadly the foreign products supply more info & I cannot igoceed with Super S in absence of more info.

youllbemine

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3nHnAc6DnBdfBPyCiAAYo5?si=GAQeYQjLQ8-VOVoxXkWjZw&dd=1

I listened to the Organic Matters podcast hosted by the brilliant Hannah Quinn Mulligan yesterday. She had a rep from Supersoil on talking about their product. I’m still not convinced by it and even more sceptical than before to be honest.

I really don’t like their marketing. Comes across like they are telling the brainless farmers that they could have been doing this all along and that they don’t know better. I don’t think and the testimonials they are are convincing. I would be dubious of testimonials (could possibly be paid/receive a discount) at the best of times anyway.

I honestly don’t see the difference in the trials done on the fields they show.

Seems like they are the first to market/loudest voice in an empty room with this product and will surely be outcompeted by some larger company in the future. Maybe their business goal is to be bought out and that’s the plan around the loud marketing.

Anyway, this type of thing should be taught by Teagasc or passed from generation to generation in my opinion. Microbes are what makes the soil go round!

Water John

Sobac which has been around a long time would be the competition. Blind independent trials are the only acceptable proof for marketing a product. But relying on Teagasc to do the leading research is a joke. Farmers are doing some leading research. Look up the Danu farming group. For example melted urea + seems a good option, See Gillian O'Sullivan, last Tuesday's Farming Independent.

Say my name

You'd want to be sitting down when pricing the Sobac.

It's gone out of reach from commercial farming.

Biofertz group on Facebook if ye have the time and inclination.

The Nutty M

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120477004#Comment_120477004

I priced the sobac nearly 2 years ago. A big bag was around €985 I think which was enough for 15+ acres. Never went with the Sobac in the end up, bought the supersoil instead.

Any idea of the price of the Sobac now?

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478014#Comment_120478014

Quoted €1800/t.

I heard a price previously and would have pulled the trigger on that. But couldn't justify this.

The Nutty M

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478302#Comment_120478302

Christ. That is madness.

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478302#Comment_120478302

Bacterosol used to be around the €1200 mark for 600 kgs but it will cover 30 acres from what Tom Stapleton has said. €60/acre doesn't seem too bad to me. I do intent to try a bag of Bacterosol and I've a pouch of supersoil to spray now that the temps are rising hope to see which gives the best result.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482927#Comment_120482927

Bacterialsol is 50kgs/acre. Well that's what their ads say.

You'd want to be working out how many nuts fall per m2.

I'm no way knocking the product. They give good testimonials and soil visuals. But at the price and the way people are saying they're thinning it out to justify it. It'd want to be super.

Seems from farmer's experience it works best on dryish ground ie not waterlogged.

Water John

Had the figure of €55 per acre in my head for Bacteriasol. Either Tom said it or I read it somewhere.