Deceased's accounts and probate

Heighway61

Is there way an executor of a deceased person's can put a hold on bank accounts or investments before probate is granted? Solicitor has said it will take 6 to 12 months for probate to be granted. Meanwhile direct debits, standing orders, loans etc are still being paid from the account and investments could be shaky with what is going on at the moment.

There is also a credit union account involved.

Princess Calla

Yes and no I suppose.

You will need to notify the banks that the person is deceased. The bank may look for a letter from solicitor or something to prove that the person is deceased.

Direct debits for memberships etc. The bank may put a block on....you would also need to notify whatever the establishment is to notify the member is deceased.

Direct debits for the likes of electricity and gas I'd imagine you will need to keep open as you will need lights going on and off to make the house look lived in and heating maybe not so much now but if house still empty in winter leaving it without heat may end up more costly in the long run but that's a personal choice I suppose.

Investments will probably close off at date of death, though you need to let them know.

Likewise any pension payments you need to let the former employer or its an annuity/arf the assurance company know asap as they will look for any money paid after time of death back.

gramlab

You'll need to contact whoever the loans, bills, direct debits etc. are for and cancel them. May not be possible with loan repayments though. Had to do similar recently and after cancelling them I just went to the bank and credit union with the death certificate. They put holds on the accounts and sent letters with what you needed to do to access them (grant of representation/grant of probate). No will involved and it was all relatively easy in the end. May be different if there is a will or property.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058288699/deceaseds-accounts-and-probate

Have you not discussed this with the solicitor and if so what was his advice?

Heighway61

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120370636#Comment_120370636

Solicitor wasn't overly helpful on the phone. I got the impression that there was nothing I could do until Probate was granted. Left in death certificate and beneficiary details on Feb 1. I rang on Wednesday. She said she was very busy couldn't give me an appointment but hopefully she can do that in the next couple of weeks.

Princess Calla

I tried to link citizen information....but a search.... citizen information probate...will give you lots of advice.

The banks etc are used to dealing with this so they'll guide you.

The Continental Op

Ireland must be different to the UK because when I reported my fathers death to his bank they stopped the account dead. Nothing in nothing out a dead person can't have an active bank account. Really can't see why it wouldn't be the same here.

Just ring up and say sorry this person is dead and follow up with a copy of the death certificate so there is no argument.

The 3 times I was executor I had no problem in this respect, simply give copies of Death Certificate to institutions, in fact you are obliged to put a stop to the various accounts. Contact the institutions, do this ASAP, it’s not much more complicated than that.

cnocbui

Ask the bank. In Australia I took the death cert and will to the banks, together with ID. They noted the will appointing me executor, checked the ID and death cert and made copies of everything and then gave me signing authority and full control over all accounts. I never needed to engage a solicitor at any point, even for changing a property title.

Rustyman101

Just a matter of contacting bank, couple of forms to fill out, nothing major.

Obviously need death certificate and your ID.

There is a specific department in BOI that deals with this, account will be frozen.

Pensions and any incoming need to be informed of death ASAP.

Small estates <25k may not be subject to probate, different if properties involved.

Mrs OBumble

Re the credit union: when people set up a CU account, they are asked to nominate a beneficiary. If the account-holder does this, and dies, then it's handled outside of the usual will / probate process and I understand that the beneficiary gets access to the account contents very quickly, once a Death Certificate is provides.

I've heard there is special legislation which enables this, and it was passed when credit unions were set up to give families access to funds to pay for funerals.

There's a lot of hearsay in that 2nd paragraph, I've not researched if that was really the timing or intent. But when I opened a CU account, I definitely was asked to make a nomination and was clearly advised that this would put the account contents outside the scope of my estate.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120370714#Comment_120370714

What she is telling you is complete rubbish. All she has to do is write a letter to each of the banks stating that she is acting for the executor and asking each of them to freeze the deceased's account.

I did personal probate a while back for the estate of a deceased relative. I walked into each of two banks and a credit union with a letter addressed to the manager, giving details of the account, stating that I was the executor, doing personal probate and asking that the account be frozen. I had a death cert for each of them to keep and I brought the original will (naming me as executor) for them to take a copy of for their records, to attach to the letter I handed over the counter.

Not one of then told me they could not freeze the account until I got the grant of probate. Your problem is that because there is a solicitor involved, you can't do what I did, they will only act on a letter from the solicitor. So you need to get that lady to send the letter.

The Continental Op

I don't think there is anything stopping the OP telling the bank of the death? If they have a death cert then thats even easier. Once they have been informed of the death afaik the bank have to put a stop on an account. Nothing a solicitor can do makes a death anymore official the death is just a fact no matter how the bank are informed of it.

coylemj

Based on my experience, OP would get a frosty reception if he tried to contact the bank. The clear preference (as expressed in no uncertain terms to me) of the people I dealt with is to deal with a solicitor when an account holder dies.

It was only when I emphasised that I was doing personal probate and there was no solicitor involved that they accepted instructions from me.

Heighway61

Thanks for the comments and advice. Very helpful. Unfortunately, some of my fears might be realised. It mightn't have a place in a banking thread but I'm under a lot of stress at the moment with other issues and I'll health. I'm not impressed with the conversation I had with the solicitor. When I expressed my concern about a possible fall in her investments value considering the current financial market issues she just said "well there is nothing I can do about that". I don't think Probate has been applied for yet. Could I or should I stop things with the solicitor and do it myself?

AnRothar

Who is named as executor of the will, you or the solicitor?

Rows Grower

Is the OP the executer of the will?

Heighway61

I'm the executor.

coylemj

OP, there are two separate issues here.

1. Getting the account frozen. This has been discussed above.
2. What to do in the short term about the deceased’s investments. I’m not sure if this is something that the executor has any control over until probate is granted. The value of the investments could go up or down. Say the executor has the power to sell the investments for cash and does so next week. Then the markets bounce back and the ultimate beneficiaries lose a pile of money as a result of the decision - can they sue him?

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120371457#Comment_120371457

Did you engage that solicitor because she has the will or for some other reason? Who has the original will?

As I mentioned above, there may be nothing you can do about the investments - what the solicitor told you in that regard may be correct. I'd say that the question of whether the executor can do anything is a legal rather than a banking issue.

Heighway61

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120371581#Comment_120371581

She drew up and held the will. I informed her of the death and asked what happens next.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120371597#Comment_120371597

Did you formally ask her to act for you in your role as executor? If not, there is nothing to stop you engaging a a different solicitor, even if there is a clause in the will stating that she is to administer the estate or act for the executor. That type of clause has no legal effect and the named executor can take that business elsewhere.

I know this because the will I took to probate contained such a clause but a solicitor friend told me it meant nothing. And nobody in the probate office took excepion to me doing personal probate.

To summarise, just because she drew up the will and has it in her safe does not mean she has the automatic right to act as solicitor for the executor.

Princess Calla

Contact the broker that handled the investment.

I'm sure there will be something in the fine print about what happens at time of death. The owner may have already stipulated what's to happen....google gives options 1. Transfer at time of death.2 trust 3 Probate.

Just because the estate is in probate may not mean the investment funds are, I don't know.

All you can do is ask. They will need to be notified about the death anyway.

Personally I would have thought an investment fund would liquidate upon notification of death. The cash would then be held in an account and transfered to the estate when probate is being settled.

AnRothar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120371457#Comment_120371457

You mention that you have other issues and ill health.

I'm under a lot of stress at the moment with other issues and I'll health. 

If it's an excessive burden on you and your time it may be prudent to hire the solicitor to carry out the actual task of doing the probate.

I will be honest that I have no idea of the value of the estate and how much this would cost.

I have no idea of your circumstances and wish you the best.