F1 2023 - Round 2: Saudi Arabia

Itssoeasy

I don’t have an issue with the second penalty that Alonso got. I think the one off the start is overly strict when the car wasn’t over the line ahead, but they got a penalty for it, so you need to not compound it. The penalty for that is one I can’t believe teams **** up on. It says you can’t touch a car for five seconds. It should be easy to understand. I do have an issue with the lack of notification from the stewards, when ocon last week was told in a timely manner.

mr_edge_to_you

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377353#Comment_120377353

The first one was a massive c0ck up by Alonso. Should never have happened!

LIGHTNING

Disgraceful carry on from the FIA, 30+ laps to sort out that call.

Andrew76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377295#Comment_120377295

Yeah that was a strange request, according to the-race both drivers were asked to do 33s, Max ignored it and went faster (which isn’t a surprise I guess). So they then tell Sergio to ignore the 33 request. Anyway, I’m glad Sergio questioned it and was able to maintain the gap, as much as I want Max to win, it would be nice if he has to battle for it now and then.

cagefactor

Hopefully this race makes the delusional folks in here who thought Alonso had a chance of winning this reconsider what they were thinking. There is simply no contest right now. LOL at the comments about Alonso's ability etc etc , ability doesn't matter when the other driver has a car which is .98 seconds faster per lap when they need it to be. If this continues and I see no reason why not, this season will be done as a contest within 12 races.

flazio

I just wonder if it's a case that the race director didn't see it at the time, Mercedes did, and spent the next 30 laps trying to get a message to the director. Remember under the rules brought in after You Know What, the teams are not allowed to talk directly to the race director during the race, they send a message to a delegate and that gets passed on. It's feasible that Mercedes-Benz waited outside the door and nabbed the director straight after the race.

They should have caught it during the race, no doubt, but I don't think that's grounds for shaving 5 seconds off the penalty.

cagefactor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120374130#Comment_120374130

Passed him like he wasn't even there. Almost 1 second faster per lap without pushing it looks like.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377208#Comment_120377208

He hasn't a sporting bone in his body. No acknowledgement of Checo in his post-race interview whatsoever and in the press conference he came across as an arsehole because the car didn't work properly during qualifying. He genuinely comes across as someone who believes he's the reason anything is good about his car.

I don't mind the whinging and whining over the radio. All the top drivers do it. It's in the heat of the moment when in that high-pressure environment. When the race is over and you have a chance to cool down though, that's when you see the real personalities.

Compare to Hamilton today in the media pen. Clearly really annoyed, but the first thing he said was to acknowledge his team-mate's performance and to congratulate him. Whether you believe it's genuine or not, he still does it. Max can only bring himself to do that when the race result benefits him. He'll say thanks to Checo for letting him past or for holding Hamilton up in AD, but he can't even say 'well done' when he's beaten by Checo fair and square.

And then there's his father, who is genuinely way more unlikeable than Max is. With Max there's a sense of 'the apple doesn't fall far from the tree' but Jos had two podiums in 9 years, and is so self-entitled that he can't even give Checo a pat on the back as he walks past him.

Max would do well to remember that Checo is one of the reasons he is a two-time world champion.

cagefactor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377208#Comment_120377208

He is the definition of a a prick. Would love to see Perez win the next race to really amp this up.

flazio

Seems like being a multiple World Champion is a bit of a poison chalice around here. We had a whole thread dedicated to Hamilton being a Woke so and so, Vettel was dubbed "finger boy" for quite some time and now Max is the biggest 🙊 in Formula 1. I think it was a title of a recent Drive to Survive episode "Nice Guys Finish Last"

kksaints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377431#Comment_120377431

He comes across as incredibly ruthless,and that he feels acknowledging anyone else's success is a sign of weakness. He seems obsessed about not showing any weakness either on or off the track. He's undoubtedly a great driver but an unlikable human being. His father comes across worse.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377353#Comment_120377353

Isn’t the rule “you can’t work on the car” for the allotted time period? I think it’s arguable either way but obviously after this teams should err on the side of caution.

For me it should have been 5 seconds mainly as it was applied after the race. If it was so egregious the stewards should have spotted and applied the penalty far more quickly.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377471#Comment_120377471

To be fair I'd been pointing out Max's obvious personality deficiencies for years.

He'll probably go down as one of the best ever, though, and he'll find that respect once someone else starts dominating in the way he, Hamilton, Vettel, Schumacher etc all have.

Charlie-Bravo

But Horner is feeding into Max's ego by apologising on the radio for the drive shaft ego. It's like he's scared of the Verstappen family. Really strange how it was said. I hope Checo has Great races with certain luck too keep him in front. I know Max is the better driver, but he's not likeable whatsoever.

Mervyn Skidmore

Total snooze fest. All that overtaking on the straight was about as exciting as overtaking someone on the motorway.

Harika

The race Stewart's are as useless as VAR. Going to be overturned and Alonso back on the Podium

LIGHTNING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377632#Comment_120377632

Wow wow lets not say something we cant take back 🤣

Burkie1203

Alonso given podium back. FIA had previously declared the penalty was observed correctly so that has to stand.

klose

They're gonna really have to time these pit stop penalties themselves instead of letting teams observe it as thats two race weeks in a row that are a bit of a mess because of it.

ShamoBuc

Second penalty wasn't given within 25 minutes - which is a rule apparently.

Delighted for Alonso.

McFly85

AM were able to show the stewards 7 different instances of penalties being served while the jack was touching the car.

So probably time for them to clarify the rules then!

LIGHTNING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377828#Comment_120377828

Dont touch that car in anyway, not a single finger,jackstand, airgun etc. Pretty straightforward rule.

skipper_G

Delighted with Alonso and Aston getting the podium back but the stewards need a slap for today, comical stuff with the safety car for no reason and the penalty oh no it's not a penalty

AMKC

Mot a great race at all. Its not really looking good for this season is it with Red Bull being so Dominant but I am delighted for Sergio.

Delighted for Alonso too to get another podium and yes the Stewards are a joke. They really need to sort there **** out.

This is it

Horrendous race only made worse by being a Ferrari fan.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377412#Comment_120377412

The Red Bulls were treating every lap like a qualifying lap, pushing 100% and risking reliability as they tried to beat each other and claim the fastest lap. Alonso in contrast was just cruising and managing the gap to Russell. As soon as he got the call about the penalty a few laps from the end, he sped up dramatically and was actually lapping faster than Perez at that point, was within a few hundredths of Sergio's best time of the whole race which came on fresher tyres, and was only 3 tenths off Verstappen's best. So it's extreme hyperbole to try and claim a .98 second difference, when the reality when you actually look at the real data showed it to be more like a couple of tenths.

Obviously that's still not good enough to win on the day, which is why he wasn't pushing, but absolutely enough to have had a chance to win if circumstances played out differently with safety cars. Across the variety of different tracks and layouts and circumstances still to come, it's almost unthinkable that Alonso won't get some victories under his built this year. You'd be foolish to write him off so easily, many of his wins for Ferrari came in cars that were further off the pace than the current Aston, though admittedly he's not quite the same driver he was in his younger days.

Jordan 199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120378002#Comment_120378002

I had a visitor over where we played a motorsport game in splitscreen. That was much more fun.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377208#Comment_120377208

Alonso, Raikkonen and Hamilton, all champions, are not likeable characters. Prost was a ruthless individual who was disliked by many. Some of the new breed are not likeable. Leclerc, for example, is often petulant. Vettel could be nasty toward officials. Max is not less likeable than any of those, in my opinion. He's in a hurry to become the GOAT by the age of thirty which will probably happen. In a league of his own in terms of sheer driving talent.

steinbock123

I don’t think the Aston Martin mechanic touched the car before the 5 seconds were up. Why ?

Because when the 5 seconds were up, he pulled back on the jack handle and the car did not instantly rise. He had to pull the handle back several inches, maybe even a foot or so, before the rear of the car started to rise, thus proving, to me anyway, that the jack was not touching the car beforehand. If he had put the jack tight on the car, it would have risen instantaneously. There is no play in those F1 quick lift jacks.

Watch a replay, you can clearly see it.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377745#Comment_120377745

"No Michael, no Michael, no thats not right Michael"

flazio

This has been another farce of a weekend. I imagine a lot of print media went to press with the wrong results. How were the stewards so on top of procedure last time out in Bahrain but half asleep here? Using GPS data when eyes on site could clearly see Stroll was clear and safe, VSC at best. And then the penalties. Started off well with a quick decision on the grid slot, Slam dunk penalty, but then the penalty rules confusion after the exact same thing happened two weeks ago and had a quick decision.

All pit boxes should have a "Drive to Survive" title card position camera. Perfect angle to observe if penalty is being observed.

Take nothing away from Checo, that was a great drive to hold off Max for the win. It appears the only way Max isn't getting title 3 this year is if he has his own version of 2016, and if that happens expect Checo to say "so long" to Formula 1.

Charlie-Bravo

https://twitter.com/stevenrabe/status/1637522505417080838?s=48&t=Is2Ndytwun4YC3jmeWqSUQ

Classy stuff by Jos!

SlickRic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120378079#Comment_120378079

I can't agree that any of those drivers listed had the same heir of entitlement. There was an element of ruthlessness, yes, but never the same disdain.

I do agree that a huge part of it is his ridiculous talent, and drive to be the GOAT in double-quick time.

McFly85

Big disappointments from the weekend were McLaren and Ferrari.

McLarens issues are well documented and while they keep talking about their upgrades it’s very difficult to see them having a significant season. Piastri was unlucky though, he did look very good in quali.

Ferrari though, what a nothing race from them. They were probably a bit unlucky with the timing of the safety car but I’m not sure if it made much difference in the long run, had incredibly poor pace on the hard tires and didn’t trouble anyone after that, just kind of stuck in no man’s land. They’re the team that looked like they had the most potential to make at least some race’s interesting against the red bull but really it’s looking like there’s been no progress made since last year.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120378085#Comment_120378085

I thought it was because the jack hits the back of the car as he tries to get the jack into position, not because he attempts to lift the car or readies it by raising it to a lift position.

PopePalpatine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377828#Comment_120377828

I'm amazed that Aramco didn't send someone around to show 7 different brands of bonesaw.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120378079#Comment_120378079

Alonso, Raikkonen and Hamilton, all champions, are not likeable characters. Prost was a ruthless individual who was disliked by many.

I totally disagree on the first two. I always found Alonso and Kimi very likeable but even Hamilton when he came in in 2007 was OK but once he became a No 1 driver well then he became unlikeable and all about him.

As for Prost well he was begone my time so I can not really say.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120378079#Comment_120378079

Plenty of people like Raikkonen and Hamilton and Alonso. Several million in fact.

Too much focus on the drivers personalities, the F1 fandom can seem like a giant schoolyard at times.

People will see what they want to see. You often see drivers being criticised for things that pretty much every other driver including the critic's personal favourite does anyway.

MadYaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377812#Comment_120377812

They also need to come up with some way of showing the drivers the pit box that's a lot more visual and makes it easier for them to place the car correctly for the start. With the technology available these days they should never need to penalise anyone for this in the first place. After the race George Russell spoke about this in the press conference and he was saying that when he's sitting in the car in the pit box he can't see the lines at all and he's one of the taller drivers. They can see the top 12cm or 15cm of the tyre and that's it.

Andrew76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380966#Comment_120380966

Maybe I’m being a bit unfair but is it really that difficult to line up your car correctly? I know the cars are huge and the drivers are practically sitting on the ground but they can see the box as they approach it so it can’t be that hard to line it up. If you’re too far left or right then you’re either not paying attention or deliberately trying to gain an advantage. Being too far forward seems an easier mistake to make but they have that yellow line sticking out to help with that I think? Ah maybe I’m talking rubbish since I’ve never had to do it. 😁

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120378248#Comment_120378248

Some very selective editing there cutting off right before he congratulated Checo. He's not a member of the Red Bull team, he's just a father there to see his son. So he respectfully stayed out of the way while Perez celebrated with his colleagues, then he took his hand and congratulated him right after, which has been conveniently cut out of the footage trying to portray a certain narrative.

https://twitter.com/f1rtp/status/1637841378636857347

It's dreadful the amount of toxicity being spread around from certain corners trying to drag the sport down and create controversy out of nothing.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386107#Comment_120386107

True, but there's no denying that Jos Verstappen is an awful person, and Max is a dick.

2011

Storm in a teacup!

Personally I enjoyed the race, an inspired drive by Max and a great result for Perez, I'm delighted for him.

It looks like Max will walk away with the championship this year due to his car advantage (which I believe is not as great as many suggest). This would be a pity as it hides the extent of his talent. I think that Max will be the first to win 8 world championships.

flazio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386300#Comment_120386300

Will Formula 1 be able to tolerate that much dominance? You hear the likes of Charles LeClerc, Lando Norris, George Russell being touted as world champions in waiting, will their talent really hold out for 6 more years until Max is done? At least with Lewis's 7 we had gaps between 1 to 2 and 3 to 4.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386300#Comment_120386300

I agree with most of your post but I can't see him getting to 8 championships. There are too many mechanisms in the sport now between cost caps and development handicaps to ever allow a team stay on top for that length of time. Aston are the most obvious sign of that - they went from the single slowest car in the field at Jeddah last year to second fastest within a couple of tenths of the top team on race pace this year. Without the extra wind tunnel and CFD time they had over the top teams, and the fact that the top teams couldn't outspend them by hundreds of millions like they used to, that would never have happened before.

LIGHTNING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387541#Comment_120387541

The said the same about MS record, nobody will ever match/beat that and well look at how that ended up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387875#Comment_120387875

I remember the days when the notion of anyone matching Fangio on 5 titles was seen as far fetched. That record stood for 45 years. Schumacher matching it in 2002 felt like once in a lifetime stuff and him extedning the record to 7 seemed to put it way out of reach. 16 years later Hamilton matched it.

Verstappen looks a near certainty to have title number 3 wrapped up as a 26 year old. He could theroetically continue another 10-15 years after that.

8 titles is well within his reach.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387875#Comment_120387875

Not sure anyone envisaged a hybrid PU like Merc inserting itself into the equation.

And I think the poster covered that kind of performance off with the restrictions put in place to stop that long dominance like that again.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386759#Comment_120386759

Plenty of potential World Champion's never won the Championship.

LIGHTNING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388017#Comment_120388017

Until in 40 years time when the power plants are some hydrogen powered plasma engines that shave 30 seconds off a lap and the EuroCorp sponsored car wins 12 titles in a row and somebody says "That will never happen again"

Repeat to fade 😂