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Government to implement consistent welfare checks on brothels, vs occasional virtue-signalling?

  • 12-03-2023 12:22pm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭

    As you may or may not know, it would appear a precedent was set last December when the PSNI (northern Ireland police force) and AGS (southern Ireland police force) co-ordinated to conduct a series of on going welfare checks (aka brothel inspections) across their respective regions over a period of weeks throughout the holiday season.

    I say precedent as, to the best of my knowledge, such a wide sweeping operation had never previously been conducted.

    In relation to the Garda implementation of this operation, it was led by a Sargent Derek McGuire who heads the AGS prostitution investigation division;

    I'm unsure of the PSNI specifics, whether they have their own dedicated investigative division.

    The generalized purpose was to expose human traffickers, but a more comprehensive examination of the operation objective was to expose more specific malfeasance within the industry of prostitution itself that may be occurring day to day, but without routine inspection, could not be addressed.

    This was unusual, primarily as the operation was not intended to target "clients", but rather expose any potential criminal practices within the legally authorized realm of brothel operation itself (i.e. scams, on-site pimping, coercion, intimidation and other criminal malpractice).


    So I raise the question as, as many of us do, I enjoy the therapeutic benefits of good, legitimate massage.

    And I've found that since returning from covid lockdowns, several of the legitimate massage parlors I had formerly attended, have basically abandoned massage entirely and now openly operate as brothels exclusively.

    I have no real issue with that, per se. People are entitled to make a living. And of course under Irish law, they're doing nothing wrong.

    However, the unadulterated depravity with which they operate and which I've recently seen, would suggest little to nothing in the way of regulatory oversight to ensure minimum standards of business practice.

    As in, these places are like self-contained depravity free-for-alls:

    Underwear soiled with bodily fluids discarded across the floors.

    Strange rumblings and mutterings in foreign languages (primarily Spanish, Portuguese or Romanian) echoing from the depths of the back rooms.

    The concurrent ringing and management of multiple cellular devices associated with a variety of aliases, all being responded to by one person exclusively.

    You catch my drift?

    So with all that being said, whether one has inside information or just personal opinion, do Irish state regulators, acting through their appointed enforcement agency (AGS), intend to allow this 100 million euro+ per year operation to continue daily activity without any meaningful and most importantly, CONSISTENT regulatory oversight and inspection?

    Meaning that, the operation consisting of regulatory inspection conducted over December-past was simply a once off;

    For appearances perhaps?

    In physics we trust....

    Post edited by Beasty on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭celt262

    I'm impressed with the knowledge you have of three foreign languages.

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,313 ✭✭✭✭super_furry

    Good Saturday night then?

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,999 ✭✭✭MrMusician18

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    To answer your question, who knows

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,254 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig

    I wouldn't speak Spanish, French, Portuguese or Italian but can easily identify them when spoken. Similarly German, Dutch, Russian and a few others. Is that unusual?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush

    Well, as this forum is regularly perused by the researchers from Newstalk, Primetime, Claire Byrnes Shows, VMTV and other national media investigators, perhaps one of those good people?

    Media has big influence on government policy.

    That new police barracks on O'Connell St?

    Fran McNulty of Primetime takes personal credit for that, as it was his Primetime episode, documenting degeneracy in the area, that placed so much emphasis on getting such an outlet opened for that locale.

    That and his partner Sarah McInerny literally sweating down Minister for Justice Helen McEntee on live TV in relation to the topic.

    In physics we trust....

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout

    And I've found that since returning from covid lockdowns, several of the legitimate massage parlors I had formerly attended, have basically abandoned massage entirely and now openly operate as brothels exclusively.

    I have no real issue with that, per se. People are entitled to make a living. And of course under Irish law, they're doing nothing wrong.

    I'm pretty sure brothels are still illegal in this country.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,909 ✭✭✭Jequ0n

    Sounds like you were lucky. You normally need to pay extra for the soiled underwear add on.

  • Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭Notmything

    Fair play posting to tell us you use massage parlours/brothels.

    There was a time when you were against such establishments.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush

    I'm against them in their illegitimate incarnation.

    Let me just give you an example........ real talk:

    Place that used to be an actual parlor with a reception desk, the masseuses used to wear nurse looking overalls, used to be disinfected, fresh smelling and training certificates were mounted on the walls.

    So I knock on the door last Tuesday.

    It's opened by a crack, like there's a safety chain on the inside (which there isn't).

    A pair of eyes are staring at me through the door-slit, I can vaguely make out it's a woman.

    Me: "Hi there. Massage, right?"

    Her: "Who wants to know!!??", sharp and aggressive tone with heavy Balkans accent.

    Somehow we make it past these pleasantries. I haven't been inside since prior to covid lockdowns, and it's been converted so that the reception area is now two additional rooms.

    There's a half naked woman furiously scrubbing clothes in a bucket in the narrow hall, and the woman who answered the door to me is wearing..... get this.... a towel!!


    She answered the door in a towel.

    Just FYI, this is a legitimate store front property, directly off a major traffic junction, busy pedestrian side walk right outside.

    Long story short, turns out they're living there. Not just working, but living. The rooms are not massage rooms, they're bedrooms, where they sleep. Sleep and conduct their business.

    i.e. no massage tables.

    But beds.



    Legitimately, bedrooms with a chest of drawers with bra's and underwear strewn all over, and a bed. About seven different phone chargers plugged into the electrical socket.

    Post edited by Sugar_Rush on

    In physics we trust....

  • Registered Users Posts: 39,253 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush

    And this is not occasional or unique.

    It's normal. To be expected.

    Whomever is running these establishments, naturally is doing so on a for-profit basis, and maximizing said profits is evidently their primary objective - ahead of any basic form of decency, apparently.

    Which is, not at all unusual for unregulated businesses to do.

    i.e. uninspected public houses may water down their drinks.

    Or dodgy restaurants might use last weeks stocks as a money saver.

    Out of date? No big deal.

    May cause food poisoning? Profit margin comes first.


    And bear in mind, as mentioned, this happens behind store front premises that at least attempt to convey the initial outward pretense of not being brothels.

    So, I guess we're only left to imagine the nastiness and illegitimacy being perpetrated in actual brothels.


    So as I was saying, did Simon/Drew Harris sanction the December welfare inspections for a little holiday public image, or do they have any intention of addressing the larger issue on a more consistent basis?

    In physics we trust....

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    What did they say when you contacted their offices?

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,812 ✭✭✭✭elperello

    Any citizen who suspects illegal activity is taking place should report their concerns to AGS.

  • Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭Notmything

    What TV show was this?

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,297 ✭✭✭✭zell12

    prostitution investigation division


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark

    OP - why not report your findings to AGS and provide all the details (like in your report above) and request they pay a visit to the formerly “legit” massage parlour?

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush

    lol, you think they don't know of its existence already?

    Every district office would have intimate knowledge of every such "business" in their locale.

    It's not some clandestine back street apartment.

    Like I said, this particular spot is at a major junction with blinking neon signs, "massage here, good time! Slippery, hot and wet!! Come inside and join the fun ;)".

    This is real, not fake.

    As in it really exists, no joke.

    And by law, LEGALLY, they're not really doing anything wrong.

    To be honest it would be as much an issue for the department of trade and employment, as it would for the department of justice.

    In physics we trust....

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark

    Still though, worth reporting to the guards as a concerned local, (perhaps mention you were a regular customer for massages but nothing “under the counter”) and ask them to raid the premises.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush

    I suppose to mention, I actually did do this before.

    I mean no sane person is going to walk into a cop shop and declare they're unhappy with the standards being upheld in massage parlors.

    But the aforementioned prostitution investigation division have an anonymous online medium called "blue blind fold" where you can voice your concerns.

    Primarily aimed at addressing potential human trafficking, but basically a public report medium for sexual related malfeasance.

    Anyways I dropped them a line before in relation to what seemed to me to be clearly "madam" related work in one particular public shop/parlor.

    I have absolutely no idea what went down, whether they were inspected or otherwise but said place is still up and running.

    And I don't suspect "madam" related work in the above description. It's just extremely depraved with zero standards of business practice or integrity.

    i.e. it's not really a police matter, though enforcement may be necessary to compel the proprietors to stop being such degenerates.


    But again, that's not really the point at hand.

    The point was related to trade and employment...... scumbags gonna scumbag, basically.

    Without consistent regulatory inspection and scrutiny in a trade feasted upon by the scummiest of all scum, I mean........ isn't that part of government (the police answer to the government) duty and responsibility?

    To maintain integrity within their state?

    In a trade that turns over a conservative estimate of 100 million euro per year in the country, they had a couple weeks worth of inspection over the Christmas, and now it's back to "live and let live" territory? (which doesn't really apply where criminality like pimping, coercion, scams, extortion, victimization etc., is being perpetrated).

    Should they not have consistent inspection and essential criminality/degeneracy preclusion of sorts, in place on a sustained basis?

    Post edited by Sugar_Rush on

    In physics we trust....

  • Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭dontmindme

    ...this particular spot is at a major junction with blinking neon signs, "massage here, good time! Slippery, hot and wet!! Come inside and join the fun ;)".

    pics or GTFO

  • Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭purifol0

    Illegal Brothels are a type of criminal enterprise that cannot exist in an area for any length of time without paying off the cops (or at least giving them

    One would be naive to think that isn't what's happening here.

    Sex workers can rent a hotel for a few nights and constantly travel, but renting out apartments or store fronts to be used as brothels mean the Gardaí already know.

    Of course our feminist govt. (advised by Ruhama) made sure that only buying sex is illegal, selling isn't, but AFAIK brothel keeping still is. Funny whenever a brothel is prosectuted its always a female Madam that is charged, often with trafficking charges too.

    "The Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2017 made important changes to the law on prostitution. It made paying for sexual services a criminal offence. Previously, paying for sexual services was only criminal if the person selling sex was either a victim of trafficking or a minor."

    It's amazing how well heterosexual men, the ones with supposedly all the power in society, can be so easily shamed & criminalised for wanting something that some women will happily sell them, that they will stay silent about it. Ditto with buying sex toys, for women its empowering, for men its shameful. These rules are very different if you're a gay man, but that is a relatively recent development.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush

    That link contains a reference to the individual supposedly responsible for maintaining the online platform know as "uglymugs", one "Lucy Smith"?

    A supposed awareness and harm reduction website whose office is registered at the same address as the "Escort Ireland" prostitute directory location.

    I don't follow their online twitter account cause the woman evidently has an obscene case of verbal diarrhea, but I browse over it from time to time and they are essentially unending with their accusations as to exactly what that link contains;

    Basically the national police force engaging in malpractice re correct enforcement procedure.


    This was just from logging in 10 minutes ago but from what I gather, such accusations would be made on a day to bi-daily basis.

    And they were being made on the hour, every hour, during the time of the regulatory inspections over the Christmas period as per the OP.


    What they neglect to mention however, or wilfully ignore, is the ongoing criminality being perpetrated within their own industry, that necessitates welfare inspections.

    It's common knowledge that in particular, Romanian gangster culture is absolutely rife in Ireland, notoriously associated with prostitution which has been evidenced time and again from one investigative report to the next.

    One recent report (which was dragging its heels for more than a decade, until Europol, not Irish enforcement, acted on it).


    I don't know who I'm more inclined to believe when it comes to claims of genuine malfeasance being perpetrated,

    1) a national enforcement agency instated by a democratically elected government who are subject to regulatory scrutiny themselves, or

    2) a bunch of hustlers who basically make a living off of deception, lies, and often extortionary practices, whose entire racket is convened, organized and orchestrated by gangsters and convicted criminals.

    Post edited by Sugar_Rush on

    In physics we trust....

  • Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭purifol0

    Uglymugs is just an offshoot of Ruhama and all the rest of the Turn Off The Red Light campaign (including the INMO!).

    They are an absolute disgrace in and of themselves, they are a radical feminist org designed to shame heterosexual men and portay all sex work (by willing women) as violence and abuse by men. They claim all women working in the trade are trafficked despite an actual union of sex workers being vocally against them. Note this stance is the exact same as the National Womens Council of Ireland, despite calls from within to change:

  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 74,355 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty

    Another trolling thread

    Only just back from a lengthy ban OP - the next one will be permanent so I would suggest you think long and hard before starting another thread in this forum OP


This discussion has been closed.