Referendum on Gender Equality (THREADBANS IN OP)

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882703#Comment_121882703

I wouldn't disagree with much of what people have said here, but it still fundamentally doesn't change the fact that SF will be the main beneficiaries of a FFG collapse, and even more so if lots of independents stand.

Floppybits

FG Senators went to the rugby match in London rather than vote according to Hugh O'Connell.

https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1767497940661158042

fuzzy dunlop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882703#Comment_121882703

Sinn Fein might be in for a rude awakening. It is too early to say. They are declining again in the polls and there does not seem to be any 'right wing' party capitalizing. It seems to be swings and roundabouts for the existing parties. However if SF does not expand their vote in the next election then I think they are done. I think there is a lot of nationalist people out there who are quite for now but will increasingly see SF as not representing Ireland's interests as they think it should be. I think they rethoric in favor of a United Ireland is saving them for now.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882804#Comment_121882804

So what? They have the same rights as everyone else when it comes to casting their vote and referenda are not party politics. If it were we'd be demanding a general election!

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883194#Comment_121883194

I think the issue here is that as public representatives they do have at least a moral obligation to show a better example when it comes to voting. They are not 'Seán Citizen'

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883194#Comment_121883194

Lets get this clear you think that its ok for members of the Oireacthas to not vote in a referendum that they and their party were involved in drafting and were canvassing for Yes/Yes votes to go to a match?

Northernlily

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883194#Comment_121883194

I would let the other fella off but isn’t there some sort of 3 strikes rule for John McGahon. A woeful background and should be nowhere near Government.

event

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882804#Comment_121882804

No shock on McGahon tbh. If FG run him as a TD at the next election they are in for a rude awakening

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882760#Comment_121882760

How many times now are you going to warn us that if we don't vote for FF, FG or Greens then SF will be winners.

And now you are warning about the hazard of independents.

StrawbsM

I’m signed up with Red C and get emails when there’s a new poll. Before you get to the proper questions, you’re asked your age bracket, sex, county, education level and employment type (manager, skilled, semi skilled, retired, unemployed, etc).

Only if you meet the criteria for the survey will you get to see the questions. I guess he who pays the piper calls the tune on what demographic they want to poll.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883460#Comment_121883460

I hope you don't vote for FFG, just understand the likely outcome.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883465#Comment_121883465

That is so they can ensure that the selection matches the national population profile. Absolutely nothing sinister in it.

mohawk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883020#Comment_121883020

Do we actually need a ‘right wing’ party though. I personally think we need political parties that want to work for the Irish people and not what NGO’s lobby them for.

SF is a funny one how much longer can they keep going with their policies. I know a good few SF members who are absolutely dedicated to the cause of a united Ireland. However, aside from united Ireland SF policy doesn’t match what their ordinary members want. The SF voter base IMO aren’t progressives so why are SF gone down that direction?

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328332#Comment_120328332

Yep, seems like the gendered replacement for biological woman & mother may have been a strong repellant to the voters. I've just witnessed a rather shocking Gript compilation video for the 1st time, whereby the word woman has been devalued to such an extent that it means whatever you want it to mean, anybody can be a woman and men can give birth! That Gript video alone featuring Mary Lou in the Dail, Paul Murphy, Simon Harris & others might have done enough damage to totally kill the Yes vote, never mind the other wishy-washy wording!

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882185#Comment_121882185

You also can't be left economically and woke.

You can be neo liberal or libertarian and woke but even the barest welfare state and woke are long term incompatible.

fuzzy dunlop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883617#Comment_121883617

I agree with you.And that is the very definition of the problem.We need democracy where the 'will of the people' is respected and not determined by unellected NGO's and Astroturfers. We don't particularly need a 'right wing' party no more than we need a 'left wing' party. Especially as these terms have no real meaning anymore. Left wing means 'progressive' now and even then I think that term is not accurate. There is something wrong in western democracies. I live in the Netherlands and the problem here is the same as everywhere else in the West.The amount of Turkish people who voted for Geert Wilders is finally being acknowledged here and is illuminating. The 'New Labour' type of 'Globalist' political consensus is dead and the political parties instead of showing leadership and vision is trying to resurrect something that has caused huge damage and should have been given a decent burial in 2008.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877728#Comment_121877728

So how do you think many would be able to run their services based on purely charitable fundraising , if not assisted with funding from the government?

Be honest here..

I am talking all NGOs.

I am not an apologist for NCWI who are a bunch of ideologues, but I object to chunks of dubious information from a Gript article being half quoted here as gospel, unchallenged, and this information being used to bash the whole.. Sector.

. Yes, that is the correct word, because people, ordinary people work in these jobs, pay their pensions, and go home to their families. Any employment area is called a sector, what exactly is your problem with this?

Do you work in a specific employment area?

Would it not also be described as a.. Sector?!

You describe with derision Merrion Sq bubbles and intellectuals and activists like that encompasses the entire bulk of NGOs.

It doesn't. That is a small proportion of workers in any organisation as you should know.

The ordinary people who look after their population base.. Drivers , carers, healthcare workers, respite care, people who care for people every day and do a good job for an ordinary wage. These are the people I see and most of the public who have a need see.

By all means audit away, but to do away with many of these organisations would leave a bigger hole in the State than you and Gript claim it costs to fund them .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883817#Comment_121883817

This is precisely the problem with compilation videos compiled by dubious bloggers.

They can be made up and disseminated via social media with no verification ,out of context quotes and fakery , and destroy people's perception o6f what is real and true.

Same sort of stunts carried on by Trump et al over the last few years and in the UK influencing elections .

Is this the type of journalism we want in Ireland ? !

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882561#Comment_121882561

There was no swing....that is my point, there was an illusion of yes supporters....it is simply not credible that the polls were accurate, at the very least they were extremely inaccurate, how could polling companies get it so wrong when posters on an internet forum got it right? ...this was the worst walloping a Government has received in this state, if the polls couldn't see it coming then what is their purpose?

Sunny Disposition

When you look back on it, it's incredible that the Government couldn't win a referendum on amending what is clearly sexist language in the Constitution. It could so easily have been done if they came up with reasonable wording. It wouldn't have been even mildly controversial.

This really is unable to organise a p1ss up in a brewery territory. Incredible.

It really should prompt some introspection and some changes on the front benches.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884270#Comment_121884270

What does that even mean "an illusion of Yes supporters" - polling companies imagined they polled Yes supporters?

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884309#Comment_121884309

I've no idea who they polled, but clearly they weren't representative, there are a myriad of ways a polling company can thumb the scales... This wasn't even close, you may argue it was 50/50 until the last week, even then that is a stretch, but the polls said the opposite, if the polls were to believed this time last week, we were looking at a comfortable Yes vote, they were spectacularly wrong.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883817#Comment_121883817

Enjoy the rabbit hole

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884321#Comment_121884321

The polls showed a high number of undecideds. I find your thesis that the entire poll was an illusion hard to believe. It's clear to me that there was a firm swing from yes to no and undecided to no. Your theory doesn't hold up.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2024_Irish_constitutional_referendums

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884396#Comment_121884396

They also show a higher yes vote...they were wrong...there was never a majority of decided votes on the Yes side. This isn't difficult really....

thegame983

It's fun to see Yes voters think they're in a position to lecture anyone about anything.

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884342#Comment_121884342

Well after listening to Joe Duffy, Prime time, Morning Ireland, etc etc, the removal of woman & mother only to be replaced with some wish washy alternative, seemed to be a big thing in voters minds!

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883983#Comment_121883983

Personally, I have no problem with charities engaging in charitable activities and that being assisted by the State- a homeless charity providing meals to the homeless for example. I would rather the State bring these services in-house, but that's another matter

What I do have a problem with is these NGO's lobbying government on broad social policy areas with that funding for that activity essentially coming from the State. The McKenna rules that are in operation through a referendum campaign should be extended to be in operation at all times. Organisations that receive State funds should not be permitted to participate in political activities.

It is perverse that the State gets lobbied by lobbyists that it is paying to lobby them. What we have is a gravy train of professional activists that only serve a) themselves and b) as a drain on the States resources.

If a group wants to engage in professional activism, they should pay for it themselves.

H_Lime

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884430#Comment_121884430

History must be rewritten!

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884419#Comment_121884419

I'm not sure what your point is? Do you think there was a propaganda conspiracy?