My manager's job description has no connection to my own

cloudatlas

Two and a half years ago my manager A left and a new manger (manager B) got the job. This was internal, the new manager B had met with all concerned and the job description was changed to fix her needs, she told me she had dyslexia but she clearly had a more severe mental issue as she was rocking back and forth and sometimes mute in meetings staring off into space and was aggressive on occasion but had been in the company for 30 years so was protected.

Manager B has now left on a secondment, a new manager, manager C has replaced her.

I am an administrator and my managers have always been non administrators, they have come from a technical area that is largely unrelated. They have been bad at administrative work so they have both exhibited behaviours that have let me know that they are insecure.

The bottom line is that this job description requires no engagement with my work so I feel isolated. This is not normal across our organisation or indeed in other work areas in my department eg. the finance team is manged by supervisors who are engaged and interested in their employees work. They have to know how to answer queries from their team and their is an onus on them to mentor. This is not the same in my case despite the fact that I am the same grade as those subordinates.

I showed my new manager how to use the system and she yawned throughout, didn't ask any questions, wasn't enthusiastic, told me she didn't understand and that she didn't read some simple short documents that I sent her. Her body language and demeanour was one of a frustrated child. This person has a PHD, the system I am using is a database with fairly simple rule sets. Another manager in a different department told me that my new manager had been told not to bother with the system or my work. I sent her an invite to a meeting that I attend about the system we use that her equivalent colleagues in other departments also attend and she cancelled the meeting without sending me a reply. She has exhibited behaviours that have let me know that she feels competitively towards me in relation to work and also my personal life asking and commenting on where I live and enquiring about my marital status. This has made me feel weirded out.

Is this a legitimate concern that I could bring up to H.R or should I just leave it? The concern being that I am isolated by the fact that the only person in my team has no connection to my work.

It's unfortunate that the old managers job description is still causing me problems now. Even though the new manager is just as useless as they keep hiring the same type of person from the same pool of people. I don't know if the job description couldn't be changed as it was a secondment?

Please be gentle with me, I'm feeling anxious and down about this.

tl:dr New manager. Manager's job description unrelated to mine. Should/Can I bring this up as a legitimate concern, is it a normal HR concern? Can job descriptions be changed in the case of secondment?

Flinty997

Is the problem the manager has no interest and thus wants no involvement in your work.

Jim_Hodge

Honestly, your manager's job description is no concern of yours.

A manager that just leaves you alone. Sounds great.

Flinty997

I guess transfer to another team with a better manager?

Deeec

Your job in administration is probably basic enough ( sorry this is not meant to be pratronising ) - your managers job is to ensure you do your job. They don't necessarily need to know the processes of how you do your job.

I have worked in finance jobs before where my manager hadn't a clue how to do my job. Their job only was to ensure the job got done and I delivered what I needed to do.

If I were you I would not raise this with HR. You thinking that the managers have been insecure or has mental health difficulties is frankly really odd - It sounds like you're admin role just bores them being honest and that's what causes their lack of interest in you.

Mrs OBumble

Is there anything which you need, but are not getting. For example, cover when you're on annual leave, pay reviews, assistance to solve problems that you cannot solve, sign-off on things,

If you're competent at the job, and there aren't things blocking you from doing it - then many people (including me) would love to be left alone to get on with it.

Oh- and when it comes to personal questions, only answer in the most general terms: your management don't need details.

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314898#Comment_120314898

They manage me yet their job description doesn't mention my job, I have no one to talk to about my job or any concerns because they would not understand this makes me feel isolated and hurts my area of work as this person in other departments would be advocating for my service.

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314933#Comment_120314933

That's why I asked. Thanks.

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315002#Comment_120315002

Not if it negatively impacts you and your area of work.

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315062#Comment_120315062

It's so basic that she doesn't understand it. Believe me there are plenty of people who think that admin roles are for dumb people and then they try to understand the processes and the database and well it's more complicated than they thought.

I think my concern is that I am an anomaly every one else's manager across all of the departments understands the work of their subordinates even our equivalent colleagues in other departments are set up in a way that ensures that the manager knows their work.

Sorry you didn't read what I wrote. The job description that my current manager has is a legacy of the manager who had a disability. The disability caused the job description to change and then when the secondment started the job description remained the same. It wasn't always like this I had and old manager who was involved, they changed the role for the person with the disability and it's continued on unfortunately. (sorry if you yourself have a disability, I'm not taking pot shots and people with disabilities, I'm just trying to explain the cause of what happened).

I don't care if they find it boring but it's unprofessional for them to demonstrate that they are bored.

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315122#Comment_120315122

I don't get cover on annual leave, no. I come back to a cascade of emails and I just have to deal. There is no assistance to solve problems.

I am independent and can get on with my work and have done. I would like to have mentorship, support and someone to talk to about my work. My work deals with big projects and the policies change, it's a dynamic area that's why I would like someone to be in contact with about it. It's not your run of the mill admin job that doesn't evolve. Mentorship is something that my equivalent colleagues in other departments have and are entitled to. I was told that 'you don't need mentorship' but everyone else gets that except me so I feel like I'm being singled out. I kind of feel embarrassed that I am being treated differently to everyone else. That's all really.

I know I should have just kept it general and I will do in future, I've only just got the measure of her.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315197#Comment_120315197

First of all I do not think admin roles are for dumb people as you put it. Admin roles are essential and need keys skills and intelligence.

Can you explain how the managers job description was changed due to them having dyslexia ( dyslexia is not regarded as a disability by the way). Nobody can get disability benefit because they have dyslexia! There are plenty of IT resources avaibable now that would ensure that a person with dyslexia can work completely effectively. I can't see why the role would be altered because of this or are you just making your own assumptions?

I would think the manager knows your job ( they may not know how to do it themselves though or actually need to know) - they just need to get you to deliver in your role - that's what management is. This situation is not actually out of the ordinary.

If for example you went to them and said you had an issue with software or resources, would they help you. You seem to want to bore them with the detail of your job when it's not necessary that they need to know it.

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315236#Comment_120315236

Dyslexia is a reading disability work places have to make reasonable accommodations for people with dyslexia. I'm not here to argue about a diagnoses, the fact is that the manager demonstrated problematic behaviour, rocking back and forth in meetings when upset, on another occasion arrived on zoom staring into space, whilst staying mute shoulders moving up and down for the whole meeting, other behaviours accusing me of not doing my job and then laughing when I got upset, laughing at me for having to spend my annual leave working, not remembering what was said in meetings, becoming angry when asked innocuous questions, avoiding reading documentation, to be honest it was more like dementia. She had meetings with disability services in her calendar also. They were accommodated by the company.

My new manager doesn't know my job and they told me pointedly they hadn't read a short one page summary of our policy, they do not like green eggs and ham... etc.,

Look we are getting into the weeds here and it's not helping.

This forum is very pro-management to a scary degree. Are we team leaders, supervisors, bosses here by any chance?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315177#Comment_120315177

It is not mentioned for the simple reason that it is just not that important! As you pointed out your experience and knowledge is not in the area where your managers competence lies, so I very much doubt your in any position to express an opinion on their suitability for the position they hold especially to HR.

It is what it is and you need to decide if it is for you or if it is time to find something more suited to you.

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315361#Comment_120315361

It's not doubting their suitability it would be trying to move to another management situation for the duration of their secondment until the job is advertised and the job description amended.

Flinty997

If they keep putting people with weird behavior into this position. Why not apply for it yourself or move to another team.

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315888#Comment_120315888

I couldn't apply for it because in this particular department you need a phd/masters to do it. In the other departments you don't require a phd just a solid administrative background. The past three managers for this role have all been internal from a particular department where they don't have management or admin experience and it's always people in their 50's who seem to have had trouble progressing before so arrive with training wheels fully attached from the depths. This new manager was taken from a recruitment pool, when they couldn't find a suitable candidate to fill the role when they advertised it externally.

I will apply for the same job in a different dept but it will look odd and I may not get it on that basis.

I am applying for other jobs in the company but some of them I don't have experience in like Microsoft operating systems It helpdesk stuff...

I can but try. I'm a glass half full type of person and I keep topping it up but this has really got me down recently dealing with the constant weird individuals who arrive in. I get on well with the other people in the various roles in other departments and some of them think it's weird and have tried in so far as they can to be helpful but...

Flinty997

There's a lot of "can't" and negativity in your posts on this thread. Inaction and complaining isn't going to fix this for you. Only positive action by moving yourself away from this section or job. Get some qualifications.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315888#Comment_120315888

Was it necessary to insult the OP like that?

@OP. It sounds to me like you need a change because you feel isolated, misunderstood and under-appreciated. Dust off your CV and find something new. You are in a place of negative complacency right now.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316071#Comment_120316071

I think you're looking for offence where none exists.

If the OP is better at the job why not apply for it. They are their own manager anyway.

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316081#Comment_120316081

I think I've explained that my department isn't in line with the rest of the organisation. I am not jealous of this person I do not want their job. I like my job. I can say no more.

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316069#Comment_120316069

Yes, there is negativity as it's a 'work problem' honestly I am packing to move flat this weekend but the next weekend I will apply for new jobs, sure if I'm not a good fit I won't be invited for interview.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316150#Comment_120316150

You really need to be more positive. Most people apply to lots of jobs and only get called for a handful. It's just how that works. It's not a reflection on you.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316081#Comment_120316081

How about you explain what you claim to mean then?

From here, it seems very clear you are attacking the OP and calling him/her a weirdo. I think the advice is supposed to be constructive rather than insulting. The OP never claimed to be better at the (managers) job. Can you point to where this was said?

Flinty997

I said it wasn't that's the end of it.

The OPs description sounds like they are better than the recent managers.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120317448#Comment_120317448

I think you've misinterpreted what was actually said, TBH. Maybe take a deep breath and read it again. It wasn't remotely offensive,

Augme

So far you haven't said in detail how this situation negatively impacts your job. Are there specific situations/incidents where it becomes clear and obvious that this current situation has a negative impact on your ability to do your job? If so, that's how you bring up this issue with HR.

But the first thing you need to figure out is what the actual problem is. Sounds to me like the problem is simply you feel different to everyone else because you have a different work structure. In a sense, an issue around insecurity. And there's nothing wrong with that either, we all have insecurities, especially when it comes to our jobs. But as work problems go, it's a pretty great one to have.

Which leds me to my next point. The grass isn't always greener. I know people who would kill to be in your position where they are left to do their work on their own. Think long and hard about that.

Lastly, If someone is doing work that is important and needed for the success of the team/organisation and then being left off on their own to do it, that is an extremely high compliment to that person. Generally people are managed because they need to be, the ones who don’t need to be are the best ones. While it might not feel that way to you because you feel you are being treated differently, it's absolutely worth factoring in to any decision you make on your future.

Demonique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315284#Comment_120315284

It's NOT your place to armchair diagnose your former manager with problematic behaviour, what's wrong with her rocking back and forth apart from possibly looking odd? It sounds like she may have been autistic and its really gross of you to describe her as problematic

Demonique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316071#Comment_120316071

Was it necessary for OP to be insulting and ableist about their managers?

Demonique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120317448#Comment_120317448

It's weird to be so obsessed with a former manager rocking back and forth and staring into space

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120401316#Comment_120401316

Someone doing that in a meeting would stand out to me.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120401298#Comment_120401298

There's a load of problematic behavior by numerous people described in this thread.

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120401298#Comment_120401298

Sorry to be harsh but if someone is doing something that means you cannot communicate with them multiple times in a work setting then it is a problem. It is a problem if you are working on a project and this person is in charge of decisions making and they cannot. When someone is not competent and another worker has to take on a large burden in order to carry that person to the point where it damages the health of the person who is a 'reasonable support' then it is a problem. The workplace chant is always 'disability is not a burden', unfortunately the harsh reality is that sometimes it is a very large burden to those around the person with the disability, it is so hard to get rid of someone who is not performing nowadays as they are protected and others must step up to take on an unfair share of the work in order that they are accommodated. I have a friend who is dyslexic, he is not a burden to anyone and can perform his role competently, in other cases some people cannot but they are protected so the rest of us must struggle on as unpalatable as that sounds.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482053#Comment_120482053

Maybe it's just me but that post has little in common with your problems with your manager in your opening post.

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482122#Comment_120482122

Maybe it's just me but that poster was attacking me unfairly so I defended myself.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482187#Comment_120482187

I have to say I would agree fully with their post.

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482248#Comment_120482248

Yeah and if I hadn't experienced what I had experienced for 2 years having to support someone with a severe disability who bullied me causing me health problems and lengthy meetings with hr and the union where I tried to get clarification on what my role was and whether I could get compensation for all the extra work and hours I spend doing their job then yeah I would agree with you 100% but unfortunately that's not always how life plays out. A family friend who worked in HR told me not to complain about this person in case I got accused of discrimination so I was screwed from the get go. I obviously have more life experience than yourself.

Cyrus

it sounds like (and maybe i am picking this up wrong) that you are an admin support to a more senior technical person. And the new senior technical person has no real interest in how you do what you are doing as long as it gets done.

They could have been more sensitive in how they have interacted with you, but its a pretty common theme throughout businesses. For example do you think a CFO has any real understanding of how the ERP system works and how people interact with it? Most dont, nor do they need to.

So what's important here is what issue this is causing you in your role, and what actual grievance you would bring up.

Flinty997

Problem: The OPs line manage doesn't engage with the OP and the OP is thus isolated and unsupported, which isn't the norm in their organisation.

It won't change unless the OP moves to another position and/or upskills. If the company won't change then OP has to.

The OP also needs to stop doing work in their own time. Work done for free is not valued. Otherwise it wouldn't be free.

cloudatlas

UPDATE: I found a new position in the organisation. I also realised why my new manager is so insecure. I looked at her work calendar and some emails in the shared in box. There were multiple grammar and spelling mistakes and I realised that she also has a form of dyslexia. It makes sense. The position was adapted for someone with dyslexia and then was left vacant for that person to go on a secondment. They failed to find someone through the formal application process as the job was short term so H.R. then took the opportunity to fill the position with someone internal who was at risk of redundancy from another part of the organisation and also had the same disability.

I know that some people will think I'm insensitive but I am so glad that I will no longer be a reasonable support as I could see that it wouldn't be short term and then adjusted to the circumstance it's now going to be a long term arrangement whereby the person in my role will be forced to deal with the legacy of the initial decision to help someone with a disability who had been in the organisation for 30 years be rewarded with a promotion. My new manager was behaving the same way as the old manager, refusing to read simple guidelines or to learn anything about my job. This is not normal across the organisation and the first manager I had when I arrived was engaged in the work. I've had 3 managers in the space of 3 and a half years. She was asking me really simple questions because she had been to meetings and hadn't understood what was being discussed as she had refused to read the information. Getting frustrated and angry and taking it out on me. The exact same thing happening again.

It was history repeating itself. The department manager is a d1ck for putting me in the same position again. He sent me an email asking me if I had already accepted the new job and asked me to his office. I had already accepted otherwise I think he was going to offer me more money. He knows that they will have difficulty finding someone to replace me and also someone to replace me who will put up with this as there's only so much you can take.

By the way I know that dyslexia can vary from person to person so I'm not tarring everyone.

Flinty997

I realise you're working out the why.

But the why doesn't matter. Once the position wasn't working for you, you needed to move on.