Study shows public charging infrastructure inadequate

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315584#Comment_120315584

ESBN are publicly owned, just because you don't like the prices they charge doesn't change that fact.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315582#Comment_120315582

Why does a forecourt operator deserve to be fast tracked over any of them because they weren't willing to put it in their order in a timely manner?

Wouldn't it be better for us to put in a proper task force for handling rapid deployment infrastructure? That way there's no concept of pushing back those who do get the order in on time.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058286273/study-shows-public-charging-infrastructure-inadequate

104 chargers on the N/M2, which is 16km from the M50 to the roundabout near Ashbourne.

Thats one charger every 320m both ways.

RetroEncabulator

One thing I’ve been wondering is would it make more sense to open charging facilities in places where there already is easy access to plenty of power?

Industrial estates and business parks often have major electricity infrastructure on site and many are close to motorways.

Maybe a solution might be to start build charging clusters where the infrastructure already exists?

The new service stations on the motorways should have had major grid connections as part of their planning. They’re only built a few years at this stage. It’s a fairly enormous lack of strategic planning if they didn’t.

Also if EV infrastructure is a key priority in climate change objectives, surely the ESB can just recruit teams to get the projects done. They seem to move at a snails pace and not just on this. It must be possible to put a big project out to tender and get a continental contractor in if needs be and just get the sites rolled out.

It seems to me that EVs are still being seen as some interesting toy rather than a real mode of transport by the ‘powers that be’.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316202#Comment_120316202

Well it's not me it's the public don't like the prices knock on impact to our electricity prices. So if this were France the government (owners) would do something. But its ireland and its as always about gravy. Plenty of it.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316229#Comment_120316229

Doesn't really answer the corruption question which was exposed and I've no doubt its the tip of the iceberg. The notion there's a list that's done by committee and it's infallible has been proven to be false on any metric.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316409#Comment_120316409

That's doesn't change the fact ESB networks are under public ownership. We're talking about them installing grid connections. Electricity prices are a whole different discussion. I don't think many members of the public have an opinion on grid connection fees.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316414#Comment_120316414

Why do you think a forecourt operator should be priortised over any other development. The housing developers paying to skip the queue shouldn't be allowed either, surely your own arguments are to stop pay to skip.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120317049#Comment_120317049

I suppose probably to achieve climate action targets and bring down the carbon cost to the state.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316318#Comment_120316318

This is what SSE are doing, they're opening a few charging hubs in some industrial estates, I think the first one is along the M3

While it's easier from an installation viewpoint, it might not make sense from a customer experience view

Generally industrial estates are in the middle of nowhere and have little by way or restaurants or bathrooms that are open to the public. And while they tend to be fairly close to main roads, the access roads themselves might not be great

A good example would be the industrial estates around the N3 near Mulhuddart, some of the roads are pretty torn up there

They might also close at night, which isn't great for anyone travelling long distances after work

So if you're setting up a charging hub, you have to do everything yourself in terms of providing food, bathrooms and rest areas, which might not suit every operator. Easier to piggyback on existing facilities in many cases

There's also the problem that the places people want to go don't always have good power supplies. For example if you were to build a 20 car HPC hub in a popular tourist town like Dingle or Spanish Point you'd probably end up doubling the town's power supply

Now, this is where things like batteries or mobile charging hubs can alleviate this somewhat, but you're still looking at a fairly large infrastructure upgrade

I guess for ESBN they want to fulfill all of their projects, but there's also a limit to the number of engineers they have who can work on the big infrastructure stuff. I'm not sure exactly what the upper limit to a Safe Electric cert is, but I'm guessing working on a 100kV transformer is beyond their skill level

There's also the problem that the equipment for big grid connections isn't exactly off the shelf stuff. It's very expensive, is made to order and has a lead time of months

On top of that, every other country in Europe is also scaling up their power grid for EV charging, and we're in a high inflation environment. So prices go up and lead times get longer

And again on top of that, there's a bit of a disagreement going on to the east of us about exactly where the Russian-Ukranian border lies, and currently the Russian side doesn't agree with Ukrainians having electricity and keeps blowing up their power grid. Lots of European countries have donated replacement parts to Ukraine, which is cool and absolutely the right thing to do, however those spares also need replacing, so more pressure on getting power grid components

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120317480#Comment_120317480

We also have housing crisis, I don't see why we should expect a housing development to be delayed to work around the fact a forecourt operator couldn't be bothered planning ahead when intending to install charging infrastructure. It's clear a different mechanism needs to be in place for speedier delivery of new electrical infrastructure such as battery storage, solar, wind, and charging infra. A joined up approach to delivering that would be in everyone's interest.

brownej

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318887#Comment_120318887

You keep saying the same thing about queue jumping. Which is a bit of a nonsense argument.

Nobody should be jumping any queues. ESBN should have the capacity and the capability to serve all of their customers. Housing estates give ESBN years of notice. We should not be using that as the standard. That you need to book a grid connection years in advance speaks volumes about the overall incompetence and capability of our network supplier and operator. If they are not capable of performing installs on the basis of demand without needing years of notice or a few brown envelopes then there is no hope to get anything done.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341497#Comment_120341497

In the very post that you quoted you'll see that I said we need a joined up approach to connecting electrical infrastructure that is required on different timelines that the current linear approach based on the longer timelines that are linked to more traditional planning processes. Until then it's a case of having a book of work and companies like Applegreen acting surprised when it turns out they needed to plan ahead to get a grid connection sorted. They don't have a right to be prioritised over other work because they weren't aware of market conditions.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341497#Comment_120341497

I mentioned before that there's reasons why it takes years, capacity changes need to be planned, planning permission might be needed and equipment needs to be obtained and installed, a lot of which has lead times of months

Not to mention that there's only so many engineers who are qualified to work on this stuff

Now could ESBN do better? Probably yes, they could hire on more people, but again it isn't exactly a qualification with a large pool of prospective employees or contractors. You'd probably have to train people up which often takes years and puts more work on existing staff

So it's unlikely that ESBN could double their workforce in the space of a few months

On top of that, it's not like they can get rid of half their staff by announcing it on Twitter, so if they're expanding they need to be confident there's a pipeline of work through that'll keep them busy for the next 5-10 years

Basically, yes they can do better, hopefully they will do better, but don't expect miracles