Picard 3x02- 'Disengage' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

ilovesmybrick

Picard 3x02- 'Disengage' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** } Warning: This thread will contain spoilers 

eadrom

Daaammmn. That's good stuff.

I've nothing bad to say about it really. It's action-style movie-Trek, but it's good action-style movie-Trek.

Worf not quite as pacifist as the trailer had us believe :-D

Riker has been great these last two episodes, Picard too -- and they work great together. Feels much more like the characters we remember.

Could still go wrong, they've done it before, but so far I just want more of this. Much more. Hook it into my veins.

Okay, just a few minor gripes: turn on the damn lights! Ship sensors can't locate a person?! But that's an old and inescapable trope I suppose. Tired of bad guys wearing heavy masks too, it just makes for easy anonymous cannon fodder but doesn't make any actual sense. Definite signs of replaying old highlights from Star Trek II, yet again, with the son, Amanda Plumers character and performance, and even heading into the nebula to hide now. Still, I'm not disinterested. And Rafi. I wish I could warm to her, I just find the performance (or the character?) unbelievable in the context of Star Trek.

Spear

It felt fairly unsatisfying I thought. Almost nothing in the way advancing the story or answering any questions.

Shaw is much less of a one-note dickhead, and is portrayed a bit more sympatheticly, and as someone attempting to balance responsibilities more. Anyone want to guess how many times he said the word engage though?

The Worf reveal was obvious, both from the trailer and the first episode.

If Vadik is just a bounty hunter, do we still not know who the big bad is meant to be?

I don't think there's anything I would call out as bad in the episode, but nothing of real substance either.

AMKC

That was OK. I seen a few flaws do for one the Titan stops in front of the Shrieks Tractor beam and it just stops? It would not stop it would then be locked onto the Titan. Also at the beginning when Riker said the Titan was gone he was wrong. I assumed he assumed that Captain Shaw had just warped out after the left it in the shuttle but they were wrong.

The Warf scene was cool but also quiet dark and hard to make out what happened. I will watch that bit again.

As for Raiffi like everyone else on here I to can not warm to her. I wish they had left her back in 2024.

I try to drop them parts if I think it adds anything to the story.

I can not believe the Titan only has photon torpedos and not Quantum torpedos at the very least. That's woukd have been firing at the Shriek.

Very abrupt ending. I am surprised it did not say to be continued at the end but we all know that anyway.

As for does wondering will it all go bad. The media reviewer on Ireland AM for Virgin Media who I do not like by the way said on last week's movies and series reviews that Picard was the best thing out that week he gave it 4 out of 5. He gave the new Ant Man film 2 out if 5 and said he refused to watch the second series of clarksons farm. His loss. Personally I had also said the same but then watched it because it was filmed before that overgrown child said what he did about Megan Markle, I am not paying to watch it in anyway so not paying Amazon or Clarkson and its actually very good in parts.

corkie

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Disengage_%28episode%29

It was kind of cool, that no words where need between Picard and Beverley.

ilovesmybrick

I found it thoroughly enjoyable. My only real gripe was testing Raffi's loyalty with drugs, a stupid test, and even stupider for her to take them. However, Raffi was slightly less irritating in this episode, partially because we spent less time with her, but mostly because she wasn't monologing to herself the entire time.

I came to really appreciate Shaw in this episode. Yes, he's a bit of a dick and a foil to Picard, but I don't think I can fault his rationale for his decisions, even if I don't fully agreee with them. He doesn't make rash decisions, and you can understand the approach he's seen from Picard and Riker so far would be anathemic to him.

Jack Crusher also seems interesting as a character, and not just a macguffin, I liked his scene with Picard, but so far it really is the Picard and Riker show! It was obvious where Worf was going to be introduced, but I found it a pretty good introduction.

The show seems to be moving along at a reasonable pace, and all the characters seem to have something to do and a purpose in the story. And the ship feels like a Starfleet ship and not an overgrown daycare. However, the previous seasons moved along for the first few episodes two, then spent the middle part doing absolutely nothing as they ran out of story. Hopefully that trend doesn't continue 'cos I've had a blast with the first two episodes

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279706#Comment_120279706

Raffis didn't have a loyalty with drugs test. The Ferengi was just fuking with her. Her storyline and her jittery self loathing thing are a huge drag on the show. Just wanted to fast forward to Picard again the whole time.

The Picard side of the episode was very good and Shaw is dead right. His no.1 fuked him over Picard and Riker tricked him into a dangerous situation and now it's likely many of his crew will die to save these 2 celebrities which is exactly why he hates them in the first place.

These writers for some reason love a shock reveal but they are absolutely terrible at them. Jack and his hereditary accent and Word were obvious a mile off.

ilovesmybrick

@breezy1985

These writers for some reason love a shock reveal but they are absolutely terrible at them. Jack and his hereditary accent and Word were obvious a mile off.

Here, you're not wrong there, but I'll take these obvious reveals in episode two, rather than half to three quarters of the way through the season, which would be the usual form.

sioda

The music over Worfs exit pure magic.

2 in and fingers crossed it stays at this tempo. You can so tell than Frakes is enjoying every minute of it.

Slydice

Whew! That was good! That scene between Beverly and Picard! Hot Damn!!

I was full sure the contact for Raffi must have been a Vulcan or Data and was half guessing Tuvok but yep... Worf made total sense!

That Klingon music blended in when he showed up! Brilliant! This composer is 100% a trekkie! Must relisten..

02 - Klingons - James Horner - Star Trek III Search For Spock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bQ-kXTg95c

This Shrike. Hmmm.. haven't a clue. What about all these scars on her face as well. Appearance change?

Awe actually.. spotted the Trill Doctor and Orion nurse! Loved it!

This whole story is so Khan / Search for Spock! Damn I hope it doesn't go David.

I wonder what this guy is up to. Seems to be up to some kind of long game going around all these systems with rebellions, oppressed and wars.

fritzelly

Thoroughly enjoyed that again apart from the Raffi bits - really takes me out of the show, too much like Burnham

This season will need a second viewing at least when finished at this rate

breezy1985

Anyone notice the little Irish reference in this episode.

Jack in the flashback mentioned he is working for the Mariposa.

fritzelly

Just looked at the trailer for the next episode and looks like no damage to the ship bar a little black spot

Evade

There's one thing Picard, and all the modern Treks, really need is a terminology pass. The Fenris Rangers said airspace, starships work in space space.

I'll post something less nitpick when I finish the episode.

eadrom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282117#Comment_120282117

That’s something Frakes mentioned in a recent interview I watched. Comparing the process and experience of making Trek now compared to TNG days, one thing he said was they used to be so strict about the rhythm of speech and the words being used. Correct (or at least particular) pronunciations. Very few contractions. They’d do take after take to get it right.

As an actor he seemed to be saying “thank god that’s not so strict anymore” but also acknowledged, I thought, that it added something at the time.

Edit: this interview : https://youtu.be/JBArxEqL3RU

AlmightyCushion

I didn't like Vadic (with a name like that surely she is double jobbing as a Serbian footballer). Way too pantomimey and over the top. Decent episode though.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283368#Comment_120283368

We have seen her eeevvvvviiillll ship a few times before and we have had three evil panto woman in the last few seasons of Discovery.

Evade

Just wait until Vadic starts spinning her chair and kicking her legs with glee

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283449#Comment_120283449

Just like Daddy

TheValeyard

Good episode but not as good as the previous one.

Raffi bits annoy me.

Good to kinda see Worf

The Beverly no words needed was bit cringe

Weird watching Picard Jnr on this show and Netflix new season of 'You'

I've more respect for captain Shaw. Still a dildo though.

Vadic.....undecided

Evade

Yeah, Shaw comes across as much more involved now but he's still abrasive which is fine. The Raffi stuff does drag but hopefully they plots will intersect soon. What are the odds that it's Jaques Crusher?

If there's anything to be said for this season they're not blowing their load too soon. Worf just came in and there's Geordi, Troi, Lore, and Moriarty to come.

It hasn't annoyed me yet, eight episodes to succeed though, and I do want to see where it's going.

SNW being a hit must've finally got through to the powers that be that maybe a Star Trek series should be Star Trek.

ilovesmybrick

SNW being a hit must've finally got through to the powers that be that maybe a Star Trek series should be Star Trek

@Evade God I hope so. Best case scenario as far as I can see is that they take the lessons learned from Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds, and seeing what applying them to Picard can do, ending Discovery, and pushing on with whatever they set up at the end of Picard. I certainly wouldn't complain about a back to basics, somewhat grittier, 25 century Star Trek in the feel of Strange New Worlds and 3rd season Picard (so far...).

~Rebel~

Quite enjoyed that one in fairness. Some of the writing or scene development is still really poor - but at least what they're writing about is actually fun this time. (I refuse to believe that having set up the transporter inhibiters a minute before, and then seeing them actively stop a transport a second later, that Picard et al would've forgotten about them when the Titan was trying to beam them over. They just force these moments of faux-drama in everywhere they can, totally needlessly. Would've worked better if as soon as they say they're gonna bring them aboard, Picard gives a 'on my mark', quickly shoots the inhibiters out as a cool little quick thinking heroic-looking moment, and they're beamed over.)

Raffi is still a bit of a struggle - and I reaaallly hope there isn't going to be some massively coincidental connection between the two stories, but I expect there will be, once again limiting this universe to around 7 people.

Thoroughly enjoying Shaw. Bit gutted that it really does look like Jack is Picard's son (and honestly it paints Beverly in an absolutely horrible light if he is, and she never told Picard about him) - though I'm still harbouring hope that Picard knows it's actually his old buddy's clone and he was bluffing to give a good quick reason to not send him away, with cloning being a harder sell in the moment.

RLM's way of describing it as a ST:TNG movie in serial form has made me more accepting of the over-hammed campyness of the baddies etc. It feels much more like the movies than the show, so thinking of it that way resets my expectations.

PhiloCypher

Any one else notice how much the deflector dish on the shrike resembles the one on a certain Galaxy class starship 😉

TheIrishGrover

Wasn't gone on that really. Eeevil Perry is just so "Standard bad guy". Literally giggling with overconfidence. Knowing everything about everyone. There will be a monolog scene with her where she quotes something and she will go down, initially quoting something else before yelling "Nooooooooo" as her ship explodes around her. Her stupidity eeevil looking ship with a stupidity eeevil name.

Beverly walking in at the end and her and Picard looking at each other for about what seemed to be 5 mins.

The fact that sucking a whole large building into a hole and then dumping it into another section of a city cause 170 deaths. Surely this should have been in the thousands. This is not a bloodlust but its almost a case of "How high can we make the stakes? But TREK degree of peril. 5000? Too high. 50? Too low. 177? Perfect"

Raffi being brought straight in to meet the ferengi: "No random tweakers" "I wanna see him" "Oh. OK"

And the handler reveal. Yeah. Totally predictable (assuming intentional though I suppose. You knew who it was from the conversations. Especially the first one).

Again Riker/Frakes the best thing in it. "Are you SERIOUS, Jean-Luc?"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120281892#Comment_120281892

Why would you even post that here though?

Rawr

Another good showing. I’m holding out some hope that quality stays up but we were here last season too and got burned. If we get to Episode 5 and still enjoying, then my hope will be restored.

I kind of like Riker pointing out the whole: «Jean-Luc, Jack is clearly your kid, why are we ignoring this?» It contasts one of my few complaints of the episode that they’re slow walking to a pretty obvious reveal. If he really is Picard’s kid, questions of how/when come to mind. Crusher’s absense in TNG Season 2 would be a «neat» way to explain a pregancy, her absence from Ent D, and how Picard didn’t know about him. It would explain why a TNG comm badge was used to send a message to him, since the last time they worked together he was using a Generations/Late-TNG Era Comm-badge. However, this doesn’t yet explain why Crusher fecks off sometime after Enterprise E. She might have got pregnant at that stage too, but it might have been a bit late for her (unless Trek fertility medicine is also highly advanced).

If she had Jack in Season 2 TNG, it brings up a few questions:

• Did Crusher really not want Picard to know? If so, why? They’ve at least been very good friends throughout TNG. He’s been a reluctant father figure occasionally in TNG, but he’s pulled it off in his own way, certainly enough to take care of his own kid.
• Who took care of Jack all of those years she was on the Enterprise? Family on Earth?
• Did Wesley ever know? (I am getting a kick out of having a Crusher kid on this show, and it not being him)

I did like the villain, she(?) seemed suitably menacing. Not Khan-quality at all, but I’m in.

Alas, the low-light were the Raffi segments. It took a degree of self control not to fast forward over those parts. It’s just so slow and depressing to see her all sad about her family and drugs etc. I have a hard time buying into her outrage of 100+ people getting killed at that Starfleet station. Feels like they should have upped the stakes. 100 people is barely 1/2 a lost starship, and unless she had a personal stake with some of the lost people, I don’t buy her sudden crusade to avenge them. I did however like how we got an actual Ferengi here, and a pretty clever one too. Also, a bit of Worf with his fancy new-style Mekleth was a highlight. Here’s hoping the Raffi segments get upgraded to Worf-segments (featuring Raffi). Maybe they will be the ones who bring Geordie into the story?

Spear

I could see a reason why Crusher wouldn't want young Jack to know his dad. She'd already been through the impact of the Jack senior dying on Wesley.

eadrom

Maybe young Jack is a consequence of The Naked Now 😄. Although that happened very early in season one for it to be the reason Crusher was absent in two.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=_fhHhd2exI4

and maybe not an episode worth drawing much attention to anyway 😄

Rawr

I was thinking this one too, but this was early Season 1, she’d have shown signs of pregnancy before season’s end.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120286579#Comment_120286579

Jaques Crusher is only 20ish, yes the actor is in his mid thirties. Her being pregnant is probably the reason she cut contact over 20 years ago.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287268#Comment_120287268

Does depend a bit on the age of the character. If he’s mid-30s then you could almost stretch it to TNG S2. However yea…mid-20s it’s post Nemesis, and as you say the likely reason she cut ties

pinkypinky

I'm so disappointed if he really is Picard's son. We've had this a plot point at least twice before. It would be so out of character for Beverly to conceal it. Ever if he's a clone of her husband, that's still weird and creepy. He looks far too old to be only 20.

But WORF!!!

squonk

I’m hoping there’s some other explanation for Jack. I do k hope it’s sobering more interesting and he isn’t actually Picard’s son. I didn’t even reckon epicardium and Beverly were in that space post TNG but never say never but it’s just be boring and predictable imho.

im also wondering how old Beverly is supposed to be now because if Jack is 20 something It’sa stretch as the actress herself is well into her 70s, and yes I know 24th century science and all that and they could probably even use the insurrection Baku planet to explain how it was possible for her to have kids in her 50s but even so the whole thing seems like a stupid plot point, including her cutting ties.

Evade

The year season 3 takes place in is a little fuzzy but if we take the writers' 2401 that makes Beverly 77. A pregnancy in your 50s isn't common but it is possible now even without IVF.

The increase in the Human lifespan in the 24th century is something that's really inconsistently portrayed. You can have the 137 year old Admiral McCoy in Encounter at Farpoint, who did look it to be fair, but then you have Joseph Sisko who's falling apart in Homefront at the ripe old age of 63.

You could also take some relativistic shenanigans into play about their stated age

Evade

Not really, full impulse is only about .25c (according to technical manuals) which has almost no relativistic effect especially for the amount of time they travel under impulse and that would make the crews on starships younger than their stated ages.

It's limited to 0.25 to prevent relativistic effects AFAIK. Easy to imagine times when they're going faster than that or phenomena sending them on extended trips at close to c

Also meant about old admirals like Bones with a stated 137 and he could be younger, in relative terms.

Evade

You could go to about .85c and still only slow time down by about half so even doing that in short bursts wouldn't have too much of an effect.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120288613#Comment_120288613

Yeah and we only saw Bones career for what? a few intermittent years.

Not outside the realms of what we saw on screen to have them do more than that for a while.

They also hit wormholes which would (in some theory versions) cause the same effect

Evade

You'd have to spend years at significant impulse speeds to have any real noticeable discrepancy and it's never come up as an issue so I think it's safe to say it isn't one.

McFly85

Ugh, that was a struggle for me.

Shaw dislikes Picard and Riker because he thinks of them as people who value their reputation as heroes over just doing your job but then is convinced by seven to save them and be thought of as a hero himself.

They got to that system from a starbase in the amount of time it took shaw to have a nap but all of a sudden they’re days away from federation space.

Raffi should have been left in the second season. Instead of having Worf be her handler just have him be the main character of the subplot.

The whole Picard son thing, I really hope that’s not the actual story. I can’t see any real reason why Beverly would justify not telling Picard about him. And so much exposition about is he or isn’t he? Maybe just a quick trip to sickbay for a DNA test instead of risking Beverly’s life waking her up and dragging her to the bridge to give Picard a look.

And I don’t like just how irresponsible Picard is being with someone else’s crew. It’s a recurring theme in TNG that part of the reason the crew functions so well is that the crew has learned to trust his judgement - but now we have a crew with a different captain being risked for no other reason than a personal one? How would Captain Picard have reacted had an Admiral boarded the Enterprise and done the same thing?

It looks nice in parts but it just doesn’t feel like there’s any real substance to it.

squonk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289041#Comment_120289041

This! The free TNG episodes where an admiral took the ship under their own command caused havoc and as viewers we were left in no uncertain terms that they were the bad guys. Jelico is maybe the exception as he had a specific job to do. I really can’t get away from the fact that Riker and epicardium are tge assholes now with 7 pitching in as well. Now a soft mission has turned into a much nite dangerous affair and the captain isn’t putting the breaks in it as he should. 7 should be in the brig and Picard and Riker left to fend for themselves.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289347#Comment_120289347

Jellico was a captain not admiral but I get your point. Was a pretty good captain too and Riker was being a tool.

Same with Shaw he is dead right all the way.

Evade

The major mistake Jellico made was running the crew ragged in the days leading up to what he was expecting to be an open war.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287383#Comment_120287383

It is definitely mid 20s. The writers have confirmed that.

AMKC

What us this epicardium l? You are all talking about.

What do you mean? My first time coming across that word.

AMKC

What is this epicardium you are all talking about?

What do you mean? My first time coming across that word.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292061#Comment_120292061

From context it's a phone/tablet keyboard typo being autocorrected weirdly.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292342#Comment_120292342

Yeah... kinda weird autocorrect, but clearly meant to be 'Picard'.

ixoy

There was a little '12 Monkeys' (the TV show) Easter egg in this. Aaron Stanford played Sneed in this. He played James Cole in '12 Monkeys' and James Cole flashed up as one of Jack's aliases. One I spotted myself. Not to mention that Shaw is also played by a '12 Monkeys' regular.