Killenaule’s John O’Dwyer has today confirmed his retirement from Intercounty hurling with Tipperary

evolvingtipperary101

John first played for Tipperary as a 16-year-old when he joined the minor panel during the 2008 Munster Championship. He made his first appearance for the team on the 30th April 2008 and scored two points in the 3-21 to 1-12 defeat of Limerick.

John joined the Tipperary under 21 panel in 2010 and he made his debut for the team on the 14th July 2010 scoring a point from full-forward in a 2-17 to 0-21 extra-time defeat of Cork. John won Munster and All Ireland championship medals in 2010. John went on to captain the Tipperary under 21 team in 2012.

John joined the Tipperary senior panel in 2013. He made his first appearance for the team on the 23rd  February 2013 and scored three points from centre-forward in a 0-26 to 1-11 defeat by Cork. During his time on the Tipperary Senior hurling panel John won All Ireland senior hurling championship medals in 2016 and 2019, Munster senior hurling championship medals in 2015 and 2016. a Railway cup medal in 2016 and an All Star in 2014.

In a short statement John said “I would like to thank all the management teams from Minor level up to Senior who helped me over the last 15 years. It was a great pleasure to represent my county and win some silverware along the way. Thanks to those close to me and to my club Killenaule, who without their support it wouldn’t have been possible, So long”.

One of the great goal scorers and forwards of his generation:

John 'Bubbles' O'Dwyer Hurling Goal vs Galway 2016 - YouTube

John O'Dwyer hurling goal vs Kilkenny 2019 - YouTube

GAA Great Plays: John O'Dwyer (Tipperary) vs Kilkenny - 2016 All-Ireland Hurling Final - YouTube

Bubbles O'Dwyer goal v Limerick 2012 - YouTube

Bubbles O Dwyer Great Three Touch Goal - YouTube

callaway92

Slightly overrated in my opinion - Was a greedy player imo. Did a lot of things benefitting himself on-the-pitch rather than for the team, and one out-of-play, that sticks with me is a post-match interview in 2019 where his response to the TV interviewer after winning the All-Ireland being 'We're the champions of fuckin' Ireland'. Wasn't mad on it (as a Tipp man)

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248773#Comment_120248773

Over-rated? Didn't realise he was particularly rated at all to be honest.

evolvingtipperary101

2-17 in four All-Ireland matches by my maths. Not a free taker. An occasional long-distance free now and again.

That's top-grade performances in the biggest game of the year. That's up there with the greats of the game. Not many can claim those kinds of performances in a major final, time and again.

If you don't rate John as a hurler, says more about you than him.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248887#Comment_120248887

Hence my 'slightly' over-rated comment. I wouldn't even have considered him worthy of this send-off, but that's probably being a bit too lousy about it

FAO the above comment. I didn't say I don't rate him

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248975#Comment_120248975

Considering John was instrumental to two all-Irelands for Tipp and considered one of the most skillful players to play the game, such comments " as a Tipp man" are beyond petty and really shouldn't have been posted. But that's your choice.

YabaDabaDooley

He was a nice player to watch when in good form. Skilkful hurler who could let the ball talk at times. Not blessed with killer speed and stamina could be an issue as was subbed off in many games.

I thought the pundits could go a bit over the top with him constantly raving about, 'Bubbles what a top class wristy hurler' when he scores a routine point and could have driven two or three wides beforehand. He could be kept quiet and was ineffectual in quite a few games if i remember correctly.

Still though he gave a lot of time and effort to his county has his All Ireland medals and a nice collection of memorable goals and points to be proud of so good luck to him.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248975#Comment_120248975

"Slightly" makes this rating business sound like it's an exact science. I say that I wasn't aware he was rated in the first place in reference to the fact that I very rarely heard/hear his name mentioned when people talk about significant hurlers.

Maybe you do hear this of course as a dyed in the wool "Tipp man". But it's good to know that you are around to douse the flames of exaggeration.

But I would say he's a "hurler's hurler" in that I'd say those who played with and against him would appreciate his qualities more than someone like you whose main memory is a heat of the moment interview. I have a feeling he might be rated where it really matters.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249025#Comment_120249025

That's along my lines of thinking. Having the 'brand' of Bubbles behind him kinda skewed things in his favour.

Best of luck to him

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249018#Comment_120249018

I mentioned I'm a Tipp man, so that I wouldn't be seen as an outsider berating him. I think you misunderstood that part.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249145#Comment_120249145

Definitely not. There's not much to it to misunderstand.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249652#Comment_120249652

Odd

keeponhurling

He was a savage hurler, beautiful to watch.

why did he retire ? I know he had injury issues, was it simply that ?

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249701#Comment_120249701

There were a lot of injuries the last few years. I think it was really bad ankle injury that kept recurring and affecting his knee on the same leg.

Large bottle small glass

Was hairy as a baby and named after Michael Jackson's monkey..

Lovely hurler, always a threat.

For the Tipperary folk, is Leahy's role in transforming a football area around Mullinahone, Ballingarry etc overstated or was his emergence 40 years ago the major factor in showing the way?

Prior to him Tipp players from that area were almost unheard of, since then there has been a lot of serious players from that corner of Tipp

evolvingtipperary101

I think John Leahy was the first Mullinahone man ever to play for the Tipp senior side. Then you had the Kellys and the Currans after him. I'm sure Leahy had a big influence on the area. Leahy was a very good footballer too. A lot of the south hurlers are, especially Seamus Kennedy, Babs, and Brendan Cummins.

There was only ever a few down from the south on Tipp teams. But they had a big impact.

Babs came from Ballybacon–Grange. A south club, well before Leahy's time. Brendan Cummins club too. Think Cummins is still playing for them.

You had Theo English from Marlfield. Tiny club. Mick Roche was a Carrick man. Those two would be considered greats of the game.

John's club Killenaule would have had a few players down through the years, like Donie O'Connell, Paul Shelly, and Fanning.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120250517#Comment_120250517

I marked Cummins twice in inter county football, tidy enough but never thought his heart was in the football.. Serious hurling goalie in fairness.

Friend of mine father won a few counties playing football with Babs. He played for years before Babs came along and said he won have won nothing without him. Seemingly an unbelievable footballer.

Kennedy is a tidy footballer with a Munster club medal, his aunt Aine Wall is on Laorcha Gael in the next week or two

Billy Ocean

Taught Bubbles at his peak was brillant and always seemed to perform in AI finals, even prior to his injury issues looked like a lad who didn't embrace S&C as much as others if I may so.

evolvingtipperary101

Clonmel almost got over the line against a dublin club that year. Kennedy did a fine job on Connolly.

Babs is a good age now and has cancer but is known, despite his age, to swim a few miles of the sea most days. A bit of a genetic freak.

Marking Cummins? perhaps you came across Foley or Browne those times.

evolvingtipperary101

A fine, fitting statement from Killenaule Robins.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120250839#Comment_120250839

I played on Declan once, class act. Awful nice fella to on and off the field.

He was the difference in a Munster club championship game in 2000; a moment of magic in the muck. Donal and Derry played that day I was on Donal.

John Owens was the main man on that team, great footballer and a complete animal on the field

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120250885#Comment_120250885

Owens had the shock of grey hair. Went to school in Clonmel - came from the North as a kid.

1373

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248975#Comment_120248975

Did he clean you off in a club game or what

Mad about baa baas

As an outsider looking in my reading of bubbles would be a very talented hurler with a questionable attitude..seemed to winter well on occasion..not fond of the gym if i had to guess..when on song though he could do a lot of damage in a short time..

evolvingtipperary101

A lot of backhanded compliments with body shaming going on.

MfMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120250517#Comment_120250517

Why, considering it's proximity to Limerick / Cork / Waterford / KK etc., is south Tipp looked upon as the poorer relation of hurling in the county? One would think it should be the opposite.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252281#Comment_120252281

It has its basis in how the game developed in Tipp, I think. And sticks around in old sayings like, 'The north for the hurlers and the south for the footballers.' And, traditionally, there was just way more hurling done up the north of Tipp. But if you read novels like Kickham's, a Mullinahone man, hurling is a huge part of life in the south. Old ideas/habits die hard. Article below:

As early as 1886, newspapermen began to refer to Tipperary as "the home of hurling". As much as it may have galled the rest of the country's hurlers, there was a certain justice to this. In those first years of the GAA, there were more hurling matches played in Tipperary than in any other county; and in February 1887, Michael Cusack remarked: "The championship of Tipperary is almost as good as the championship of Ireland."

The idea of their own pre-eminence was a burden carried lightly by the people of Tipperary: it was seen by them as a simple matter of fact.

Writing about North Tipperary, Cusack conjured a sort of Gaelic idyll: “The inhabitants of this romantic locality live within the mountainous barriers and strongholds which nature, itself, has reared to preserve their liberties and their national pastimes. These are barriers and strongholds, beyond which degenerating and demoralising games and customs have never penetrated, and the glorious game of hurling, so much cherished, so much loved in North Tipperary, holds deserved supremacy over all other games.”

It was here, he wrote, that his dreamed-of classless sports organisation already existed: “The doctor and officer and priest mixed promiscuously with hardy sons of toil and the blackened sons of Vulcan.” Tipperary was the benchmark by which every other county would be judged. Reporting from a match in Avondale, Co Wicklow, Cusack wrote: “I could scarcely bring myself to believe that I was not in the heart of Gallant Tipperary, so enthusiastic were the crowds, so charming were the girls, and so thoroughly Gaelic did everything look.”

This elevation of Tipperary was as rooted in the past as it was in the present. There was evidence of centuries of hurling in the county, including the discovery of ancient bog-preserved hurling balls made of hair. More than 300 years of poetry, legal statutes, memoirs, travel journals and newspaper articles recorded the presence of hurling in Tipperary’s fields and village greens.

In the eighteenth century the game enjoyed the patronage of the landed gentry, who kept teams that played each other for large wagers. The social and political ruptures of the nineteenth century had reshaped social life in Tipperary, but hurling had survived in places such as Clonoulty and Moycarkey up until the establishment of the GAA. Cusack was able to employ this apparently unbroken tradition of hurling towards his vision of what the GAA should be.

Despite Cusack’s vision of Tipperary as a Gaelic redoubt, it was, in reality, a strikingly diverse county. It was home to substantial landowners who developed their own sporting lifestyle that revolved around hunting, shooting, fishing and tennis parties. Many other sports of Empire also thrived. Rugby clubs were well established across the county by the 1880s and cricket was the most popular game, played by all sections of the community.

After 1884, the relationship that developed between the GAA and sports such as cricket and rugby was a complex one. The Tipperary Advocate, based in Nenagh, wrote that the GAA was, in part, designed to "banish the namby-pamby croquet, lawn tennis, etc., as effectively as St Patrick banished the more vicious serpents from our isle. We have not the slightest objection to effeminate dandies and romantic ladies to amuse themselves at the exciting games quoted, but they are far, very far, beneath the brawn and sinew of the hearty sons of Tipperary."

The problem for such rhetoricians was that the games of Empire thrived in Tipperary long after the founding of the GAA. And they thrived, on occasion, with the help of the GAA. After Clanwilliam won the Munster Senior Rugby Cup with victory over Garryowen in March 1887, among those whom the club thanked were the GAA members who had left nothing undone “to help their rugby friends make their match a complete success”.

An illustration from a March 1884 issue of the London-based Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News, depicting hurling skills and match situations. The artist was probably observing the Metropolitan Hurling Club, founded in Dublin in 1883.

A member of the Clanwilliam club was St George McCarthy, who had played rugby with Cusack in Dublin and had also attended the first meeting of the GAA in Thurles in 1884, though he did not subsequently involve himself with the organisation. Even the language of such sports entered the GAA, with Tipperary footballers reported in the press as shouting such encouraging words as "Bravo, Conway" and "Darling to your left foot, Carty", to each other. For their part, local landlords also supported GAA clubs. When Silvermines played Tulla from Clare in October 1886 they did so in a field provided by Lord Dunalley.

****

The people of Tipperary immediately embraced the GAA. On top of that, the games were adopted by Catholic clergymen. Some simply threw in the ball in symbolic fashion to start matches. Others had a more central role: they became club officials and placed hurling at the centre of parish life. The local curate in Dunkerrin, Fr John Maguire, was a well-known lover of hurling who celebrated a hurling match between two Tipperary teams by killing a pig and boiling six stone of bacon for the occasion. Although the clergy were involved in clubs and attended matches, it was primarily individuals such as Frank Maloney, from Nenagh, who drove the revival of hurling in Tipperary.

Like many other sports lovers in the county in the 1880s, Maloney was initially a cricketer. In fact, he was honorary secretary of the Nenagh Cricket Club in 1884 when the GAA was founded. He immediately began chairing a subcommittee of that club which was appointed for “the revival of national pastimes”. Within a month of the founding of the GAA, the Nenagh Cricket Club began planning to hold a hurling match. By March the subcommittee had evolved into the Nenagh Hurling Club and, on that Sunday in March 1885 when the first hurling matches were played under GAA rules, Nenagh played a team from nearby Silvermines, with Maloney as referee.

Throughout 1885, Frank Maloney’s efforts were crucial to the formal organisation of hurling across the northern part of Tipperary. He had begun corresponding with Cusack in late 1884, and it was to Maloney that Cusack had turned when he wanted to stage his great hurling spectacle in Dublin in early 1886 by inviting a team from North Tipperary to play one from East Galway in the Phoenix Park.

Maloney had arranged the trial matches for players from all the various villages and parishes around Nenagh to choose the North Tipperary team. He used the momentum generated by their victory to establish a sort of umbrella organisation for clubs in the areas – the North Tipperary Branch, GAA. In the latter part of that year and into 1887, Maloney arranged a competition between all the clubs of the area; the prize was the silver cup that had been won by the North Tipperary all-star team in Dublin in February 1886. It says much for Maloney’s ability that he was scarcely 20 years old at the time.

Cusack, always at pains to romanticise Tipperary hurling, wrote: “We have seen teams of Tipperary hurlers with their blood boiling for hours, and we have not detected the slightest symptom of the revival of faction fighting, or any fighting at all. They want hurling, not fighting.”

The reality was that there was fighting everywhere. In his column in Sport, P. P. Sutton became increasingly obsessive in his criticism of rough play during 1887. At the start of the hurling championship, Sutton had appealed to all clubs to ensure that matches would be played “in a friendly spirit, with mutual toleration, and without the introduction of rough or vicious play, which serves no purpose whatever and only brings ridicule on those who indulge in it”. He was proud that the Dublin hurling championship had passed off without violence, but he also believed that the rules of hurling were more faithfully observed in Dublin than in other counties, not least in Tipperary.

He was exasperated by the “rough, vicious and semi-barbaric play” of various rural teams: “Butting with the head, kneeing in the stomach, giving the elbow in the ribs under the cover of hipping, tripping, and a few other minor forms of what we must call ‘deceitful play’.”

And that was not even to mention the crimes committed with the hurley. Local observers in Tipperary lent credibility to Sutton's claims. Canon Philip Fogarty noted that matches involving teams from the county had occasionally been abandoned "lest humanity too far forget itself". When Hollyford met Cappamore, "play had scarcely commenced when a camán was smashed in smithereens. This was an accurate prognostic of what was to come."

On New Year's Day 1887, the Tipperary Advocate listed serious incidents in a match on Christmas Day at Rossaguile, and in matches in Nenagh and Tyrone on St Stephen's Day. According to the paper, all the incidents were the product of rough play and would have been avoided if "the shoulder jostling was left out of the fair hurling of the ball". Elsewhere in the county, there were reports of "disgraceful scenes" in Clonmel when a team from Carrick travelled over for a match which devolved into a fracas, then into a brawl and, finally, into a bout of stone-throwing.

The police were called, arrests were made and several players received fines. It seems to have provoked no small amount of bitterness among the Carrick men that not one Clonmel man was arrested or fined. Responsibility for keeping violence at bay fell to the referee. It was no easy task. The rules of hurling were still being refined and were, in many instances, no more than vague guidelines.

More than that, the whole concept of refereeing was a new phenomenon in hurling. Even as the first championship was getting under way, a system was still being worked out. A referee was to be assisted in his duties by two field umpires, one of whom was appointed by each team. In seeking a decision, the captain of a team was supposed to appeal to the umpire from his club, who would then appeal to the referee, who would convey his decision to the players.

This system of decision-making by committee led to matches frequently being stopped as participants gathered around the referee awaiting his decision. Inevitably, umpires sought to use their position “to try and gain, fairly or foully, all the advantages they possibly can for their side”. Players were given to disregarding the referee’s authority or using “classical language” to abuse him. Teams who felt particularly aggrieved were known to leave the field in protest.

The situation was not helped by the confusion caused by crowds spilling on to the pitch. A supporter of the Mooncoin hurlers in Kilkenny was reported for flourishing an umbrella while he badgered a referee. Supporters of the Templemore club pulled up the goalposts when a match was headed in a direction of which they did not approve. The stewards supposedly responsible for keeping order could also become caught up in events. At the Wicklow championships in Parnell’s lands at Avondale there were “stewards and spectators freely using ash saplings on one another’s heads in a manner worthy of the halcyon days of faction fighting”.

Amid the general mayhem, the referee was expected to rule the game by shouting instructions. This was obviously open to malice and mischief. Members of the crowd and other players were known to shout: “Take up the ball”, or “Time is up”, as the game was in full flow. Only in 1888 was it recommended that referees be provided with a whistle. But a more fundamental problem was getting suitable men to referee matches.

Sutton regularly railed against those who were chosen, believing many to be lacking in authority and impartiality: “In appointing referees their fitness for the position is very often totally disregarded and we have seen men acting as such who knew as much about the duties of a referee, or of the rules of football or hurling, as the man in the moon.” The result was still more violence. As T. F. O’Sullivan, the first historian of the GAA, recalled: “The referee enjoyed no particular immunity from rough handling. His person was by no means sacrosanct.” In Dublin, despite Sutton’s pleas, a referee was “severely beaten” by a player at a match in Clonskeagh.

Referees were verbally abused before and after games on a routine basis. One referee recalled being “subjected to the most vile abuse from the very moment the match commenced”. Threats to referees were not without reward. A report on a match in the first Louth football championship records the crowd being “convulsed with amazement” at the decision of the referee to award victory to Point Road, Dundalk, over a team from Monasterboice. All present were clear that Monasterboice were comfortable winners, but the referee confided that “if he hadn’t made the Dundalk men victorious, there would be no use in him going home”.

In Tipperary, at least one referee was determined not to be intimidated: John Cullinane – an IRB man and land agitator – carried a blackthorn stick whenever he officiated. With the Tipperary championship about to begin, the fear was that even a blackthorn stick would be of scant use: Sutton had noted that "teams will be more anxious for victory in the championship ties than in ordinary matches, and this anxiety might operate injuriously against good fellowship". For all the pious words, the reality was that it was precisely the prospect of bad fellowship which was central to the appeal of hurling in Tipperary.

The Hurlers, The First All-Ireland Championship and the Making of Modern Hurling by Paul Rouse

Mad about baa baas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252261#Comment_120252261

It's probably more the fact I lacked talent and.he seemed to have a natural abundance of it and I feel he retires without realising his potential..maybe I'm all wrong

It is a Dunne Deal

2-12 from play in AI finals that says it all when the chips were down Bubbles stood up. Plenty of stat padders out there firing it over from all angles in nonsense games.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251982#Comment_120251982

Yeh, we would've ended up playing Killenaule a lot underage and into adult, given we also had the South Tipp Championship with them, and would've come up against him a fair bit. Can't say he particularly ever demolished us mind you although the memory of early-teens etc. is kinda gone now.

evolvingtipperary101

Bubbles has a serious golf game. Maybe you suffered on the course with him too.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120253679#Comment_120253679

Unfortunately not

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249018#Comment_120249018

He is not considered "one of the most skillful players to play the game"

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120261123#Comment_120261123

Yes he is, no he's not........

Is there an official list by any chance?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120261304#Comment_120261304

Obviously not but I don't see or hear him come up in many conversations in that regard.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120261331#Comment_120261331

Nearly GAA podcast and newspaper report describes O'Dwyer as one of most skillful players. But you don't think do. Riiiiiiight. Good job. Well done. Stick to Star Trek.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262102#Comment_120262102

Obviously your a huge fan as I would be if he won a few All Irelands for Limerick or he was from my club.

We're these papers and podcasts talking about his retirement by any chance. They tend to be a bit over the top at these times.

I don't think we will be talking about him in years to come. That's my opinion and there is no need to be such a snotty child about it.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262180#Comment_120262180

Beam me up, Snotty.

evolvingtipperary101

Interesting definition of wristy here

Top 5 wristy hurlers of the 21st century - YouTube

MattressRick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262102#Comment_120262102

I listen to off the ball and second captains every day and can't recall this getting a mention other than in the news round on off the ball.

Lee Keegans retirement was the cause of 2 or 3 separate podcasts across both of those sports channels so I'm curious about what you're saying about O Dwyer being lauded as one of the most skilful of all time, if I'm understanding your point above correctly.

A great player on his day. And very hard to stop at his peak. But definitely not an all time great. Would he even make an all time Tipp forward line? I'm not sure. Might be first sub on if such a thing existed.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120267807#Comment_120267807

How does your mind jump from or interpretate "one of the most skillful players" to/as one of the greatest players of all time?

Gusser09

Best of luck john. Very good hurler.

Lots of time for his extra curricular activites now 😉

newhouse87

..

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120267807#Comment_120267807

The number of podcasts about a retiring Mayo footballer seems a novel sort of way to judge a hurler's skill level. Not sure it makes much sense either.

There's more to ability than hunger for media profile. Stephen Cluxton probably didn't do too many columns, have too many podcasts, and has so far avoided Keegan's inevitable book at Christmas, but he left a fair mark in his sport. There's more to life than Off the Ball.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120268381#Comment_120268381

But yet you used podcasts to back up your point.

evolvingtipperary101

https://youtu.be/ntd2FmOqrqM?t=3180

A very graceful hurler. All the skills that the normal hurler can't do.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120268450#Comment_120268450

Utterly baffled as to what this is trying to say to be honest.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270001#Comment_120270001

Sorry you and Evolving have identical profile pics so I thought it was himself I was replying to.

conor05

My god, what a comparison to make Lee Keegan appearances on Off the Ball and Bubbles.

My most recent & lasting memory of Lee Keegan in an All Ireland final is Con O’Callaghan roasting him to the high heavens, I can’t say the same about Bubbles in 2016 & 2019 All Ireland finals.

MattressRick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120267832#Comment_120267832

Well I read that post and your previous one "considered one of the most skillful players to play the game" to mean you were talking about all-time. If not fair enough my bad.

MattressRick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120268381#Comment_120268381

You missed the point or I didn't make it clear enough. Im reading some of the posts here like O Dwyer is an all time great but maybe I'm misinterpreting the likes of "considered one of the most skillful players to play the game".

So my point is that the retirement of someone considered an all time great does seem to generate a lot of media coverage. This wasn't the case for O Dwyer. Sin È.