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Paramilitary style infliction of grievous bodily harm re-emerges in Belfast?

  • 16-02-2023 12:56am
    Registered Users Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭

    Thought those days were behind us.

    I brushed up on the Northern Irish "troubles" earlier, timelines, groups and factions involved, etc.

    It would appear unfortunately, paramilitary groups haven't disbanded entirely. Not that they serve any political purpose.

    As I understand now they operate almost exclusively in the realm of criminality, narcotics, racketeering, intimidation and prostitution (illegal brothel keeping, trafficking, extortion, all of which are documented as also being rampant in Belfast currently).

    I was of the understanding the PSNI in liaison with the southern police forces had began cracking down on the latter but no, perpetrators are still at large and giving it large, by all accounts.

    Seeing things so depraved, one must be grateful that Ireland has the backing of the White House, that by way of envoys and influence seek to ensure the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement is upheld.

    In physics we trust....


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,153 ✭✭✭✭blanch152

    Sadly, these are a regular occurrence still in Belfast and some other parts of the North. The dark legacy of the terrorists lives on to haunt peoples lives even today.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,405 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge

    It's not a re-emergence, as it never went away. This has been a regular occurrence in parts of Northern Ireland for decades.

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,088 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck

    I'm curious why a drugs gang kneecapping somebody is news when down south they are chopping up 17 year olds?

  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge

    There's about 20 or 30 of these a year every year mostly in Belfast or Derry but also in North Armagh, Strabane and a few other places. The practice is quite popular with the general public in the areas as well its mostly burglars, joyriders and small time drug dealers that get it n one sheds many tears for them.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,788 ✭✭✭timmyntc

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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,153 ✭✭✭✭blanch152

    I cannot believe your callous attitude to this. These people are denied justice when the mob takes things into their own hands. I very much doubt that they are quite popular.

    This is the type of unfair stigmatisation that Sinn Fein have already tried with the likes of Paul Quinn, making out that people are burglars, joyriders and drug dealers. Assault with a deadly weapon is much more serious than any of those crimes, so the ones who carried this out are the real criminals and those who apologise and support it, well I won't say what I think of them.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,788 ✭✭✭timmyntc

    This is the type of unfair stigmatisation that Sinn Fein have already tried 

    only 8 posts in, that was quick

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush

    I have to agree with this.

    Mob justice is spineless and primitive.

    I wasn't aware this was common place, but I guess the point being made was, isn't it past time the activity of these terrorist organizations and their affiliates was dealt with?

    Of course complication arises when perhaps one considers the reality that the former RUC (national police body) and said terrorist organizations very much collaborated.

    For full disclosure, I'm really only informing myself in the specifics of those territorial/political/behavioural and ethnic clashes at the moment.

    But as I understand several prominent politicians were in fact terrorist orchestrators as their first incarnation.

    In physics we trust....

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,088 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck

    Of course to blame Sein Fein they would have to pretend that loyalist paramilitaries are not just as well known for such violence. Only a moron would think such a thing I would imagine.

    These are all just criminal gangs, doing what criminal gangs do.

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,153 ✭✭✭✭blanch152

    It is only Sinn Fein that have a record of blaming the victims of these incidents, something an earlier poster also tried to do.

    Unless you are equating Sinn Fein with the PIRA, then I don't understand your comparison of Sinn Fein with loyalist paramilitaries.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,946 ✭✭✭Odhinn

  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge

    Look you can sit in your Ivory tower and pontificate about it all you like go to the areas these shootings are happening in and ask the people what they think of them the answer will shock you. The type being shot for the most part are the same type of wasters you see in courts down here 100 convictions 50 suspended sentences etc. It's not the local boy scouts that are getting it. These kind of mob actions are quite common in a failed/failing state like the north.

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,088 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,153 ✭✭✭✭blanch152

    There are cultural issues involved here, where Sinn Fein have failed to take the lead in the North on these types of issues.

    We still have the sneaking regard for the PIRA going around kneecapping people, we have seen it in some of the posts even on this thread. SDLP, Alliance, parties like that will take the lead, but Sinn Fein won't and they have a long track record in defending mob justice like this.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush

    Being perpetrated by organizations that routinely and primarily targeted entirely innocent citizens as part of their fundamental protocol during wartime/conflict, it's difficult to buy into the rhetoric they're doing some kind of valid public service.

    For all the integrity the official justice system lacks, mob justice and groups/organizations operating of their own volition (whose only contemporary activity is perpetrating their own insidious form of criminality themselves) without authorized regulatory oversight, are going to be a dayum sight worse.

    The NI film "You Me and Marley" comes to mind. Attempts to correct wrong-doing with wrong-doing of a much more grievous nature, is not justice administration.

    Post edited by Sugar_Rush on

    In physics we trust....

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,153 ✭✭✭✭blanch152

    The fact that you consider that a young man who engages in smalltime drug dealing deserves to be shot tells a lot about your perspective on issues.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush

    As mentioned, I'm really only coming to terms with the particulars of NI politics but, two prominent names leave me absolutely bewildered:

    1) Ian Paisley

    2) Martin McGuiness

    I mean, individuals with such advocacies, codes of ethnics and historical involvements, becoming foremost political leaders??

    How exactly did that come into effect?

    Was the entire electorate on drugs?

    No wonder it's a failed and/or failing state.

    Which is a dayum shame cause NI has a banging electronic music scene, some of the worlds most accomplished electronic music producers, and has consistently turned out top ranked combat sports athletes across a range of combat sports disciplines - all of which offer massively to a vibrant, progressive, fun and inclusive cultural landscape.

    In physics we trust....

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush

    As I understand the details in relation to the obscene and barbaric murder of Paul Quinn, it arose ultimately out of a relatively minor dispute in a local pub.

    Someone got offended, and orchestrated what followed.

    Which is not the least bit uncommon where ideas of territorialism and unsanctioned authority are at play (the murder of Limerick boxer Kevin Sheehy in 2019, whilst not having the same level of orchestration involved, was ultimately based on an almost identical motive - some gangster type got offended or felt their "street cred" or "image" was being threatened or "disrespected" in a social setting).

    And that's the mentality that drives both republican and loyalist formerly paramilitary, now criminal organisations.

    And those that support it, glamorize that degeneracy.......

    As mentioned, these criminal factions are also what's responsible for orchestrating criminal and elicit practice in prostitution in NI currently also.

    Is this happening under the awareness of the PSNI?? (which I mention as it was comprehensively investigated, apparently, by the PSNI a month or two ago, yet the existence of these illegal and extortionate, trafficking oriented institutions remains uninspected and unchallenged).

    In physics we trust....

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,189 ✭✭✭✭elperello

    Supporting this type of "justice" is all very well until it comes to your own doorstep.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush

    Outside, third party analysis:

    According to this independent research, it all seems to come down to the idea of "identity".

    7:40 - a description of feeling like "an outsider".

    So really it's a battle against a cultural divide, but instead of bridging that divide, self-evolution, they're battling to drive the other culture out.

    10:45 - politics is more effective than violence, "Bobby Sands" position and impression upon republicans.

    13:00 - it's not about religion, it's about identity; one side want to be British, one side want to be Irish - culture wars.

    17:50 - "Belfast is one of the most dangerous areas in the world to police", apparently minimal confidence in police conduct?

    20:20 - paramilitaries from both sides are involved in drugs and crime, and draw in disaffected teenagers.

    24:35 - "the real IRA, are criminals who wear a mask of Irish republicanism, to hide the fact they're criminals - because such a mask gives them credibility"

    26:30 - "those born on or after the GFA, they don't see a future for themselves in contemporary NI";

    and that's what it comes down to. Identity, belief, culture = determines outlook, motivation - it's a question of physiology is so many respects.

    Aspiration toward a progressive future and quality of life, what they hinges upon, physiologically, psychologically, cognitively.

    27:30 - they see Brexit as another step, pushing them into a united Ireland, i.e. pushing them away from their identity.

    "Create a new, better Northern Ireland for everyone" - it really does come down to aspiration for quality of life and living;

    But inability to understand and transcend difficulties relating to......... evolution.

    In physics we trust....

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  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler

    I dont think gangs of masked men should be going about kneecapping people.

    However at the same time the justice system is soft on repeat offenders.

    Someone with over ten convictions should be locked up for good...