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Leasing Land and Entitlements

  • 15-02-2023 5:21pm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭

    I am leasing land, the rate agreed is per acre plus the value of the entitlements.

    How will I be sure that I am getting the correct value of the entitlement, in particular I am thinking about the echo scheme, the farmer is a heavily stocked dairy farmer, how will I know if he is receiving the echo scheme on my land


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,050 ✭✭✭✭wrangler

    In the new CAP the landlord is no longer entitled to the Greening, or Criss and ECO scheme as it's called in the new CAP,

    Any tenant that's on top of their game will refuse to allow it to be have to be repaid to the landlord.

    If you can get it written into the lease , so best. But, as far as I know ,provided he has just one entitlement it's possible to get Criss and eco on all your land so the link to the entitlements is effectively broken

  • Registered Users Posts: 421 ✭✭zetor 4911

    When leasing out entitlements all that is been leased is the unit value of the entitlement which does not include the ECO and CRISS. It is up to the farmer leasing in the land if he/she wants to draw down the ECO and CRISS payment they may decide not to. If he/she does draw down the ECO and CRISS then that is their money not the owner of the entitlements.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,445 ✭✭✭jaymla627

    Cake and eating it comes to mind, but legally your only option is to put the 100 euro a hectare of eco/criss onto the rental figure and then factor in the biss payment, at the reducing rate per year.....

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭Good loser

    Would a 230 to 250 kgs N dairy farmer be able to get the eco/criss payment?

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,445 ✭✭✭jaymla627

    Eco yes no bother at all, criss is only payed on first 33 ha of ground farmed after that theirs no payment

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,425 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer

    Next thing they'll be looking to see accounts and expecting a cut of any profit, mind you they won't split any loss. it's a form of begrudgery that someone might be making something out of their land.

    If your renting out land set a price based on eco schemes or whatever and don't worry about what the renter is getting, same for entitlements.

    If your not getting what you want don't rent them out but this notion that the renter is getting something you should be getting is madness. In that case farm it yourself, you might not be any better off but at least you'll get whatever you think the other fella might be screwing you out of.

  • Registered Users Posts: 421 ✭✭zetor 4911

    It is the same as asking would the dairy farmer be able to get ACRES and if he would does the land owner have the right to claim this as well my point here is that there is absolutely no connection between ACRES and the entitlements the same with entitlements and ECO Scheme/CRISS payment.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭Good loser

    Thanks. I think thats 30Ha not 33 Ha.

    How is Eco calculated; With Space For Nature (SFN) at 10% practically all qualify.

  • Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭Jack C

    I think most would agree that Eco is replacing Greening. So if the land qualifies through its existing space for nature, then I feel it should be passed onto the landowner if the rent agreed was plus entitlements. Criss though is only on the farmers first 30ha.

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,127 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves

    When renting/ leasing you should set your rate and forget about entitlements. Traditionally this stemmed from lads trying to retain entitlements. However entitlements ate now broken into three parts.

    Greening is no longer linked to entitlements it's 70-80/ HA. You get paid it regardless if you own any entitlements.

    Criss is a out 45/ HA. You need one entitlement to get it paid on the first 30 HA. So effectively it link is broken as well

    Finally you have the entitlement itself. This is heading towards a national overall average of 250 ( including Greening about 170 in reality) after the next CAP. After this round the minimum will be 130 + Greening. The highest value entitlements will be 400 ish. I expect in the next CAP the existence of entitlements will cease completely and you will be paid on the land you farm regardless of owning an entitlement.

    Another factor is farmers can only draw a maximum of about 60k. Some larger dairy and especially tillage farmers will hit this maximum therefore they cannot guarantee payment of entitlements

    The problem is that technically it cannot be guaranteed that you will qualify for it.

    The other interesting thing is that a lot of lads that were going to sell entitlements held off last year as he claw back is abolished for two years but they will be selling seriously reduced values

    Slava Ukrainii

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  • Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭Conversations 3

    Does anyone have a link to a guide to entitlements?

    Like an in detail outline and explanation.

    Bought some new land with no entitlements so want to see what's available.

  • Registered Users Posts: 421 ✭✭zetor 4911

    Agree 100% and If they sell entitlements they will be selling the BISS value of the entitlements which does not include the ECO and CRISS.