What would an Ireland with full legalization of drugs be?

slither12

The government is making plans to decriminalize certain drugs but I was wondering what would happen if we had full legalization. With the exception of certain drugs (ironically legal highs a while back) like spice, flakka. I'm mean the typical downers (heroin), uppers (cocaine, amphetamines), and hallucinogens (cannabis, LSD, psilocybin).

The biggest issue with street drugs is the quality control, legal problems, and addictiveness. Since legalization would get rid of the former two, would we start to see more addicts? There's an American professor called Carl Hart who says that even a drug like heroin can be used moderately. They also prescribe meth for ADHD.

Overheal

IIRC in the mid 00's or early 10's there was an effort to decriminalize drugs via head shops in at least one part of Ireland, but the county or w/e canned the proposal after those shops quickly became the target of violent crime, arson, etc. I think the general assumption was that was organized crime pushing back against legalization - they like their control of the markets as it is apparently. A heroin or cocaine cartel has no interest paying taxation or dealing with state regulation, and they have the weaponization to put word to action.

Run Forest Run

We already know... we've seen the terrible effects of a dangerously addictive substance that's completely legal and socially acceptable.

It's called alcohol.

The problem isn't quality control btw, it's people's lack of self control. A drug free for all, will just expose more of these vulnerable people to a sad life of addiction. Some laws are there to protect people from themselves as much as anything else.

Count Dracula

A large increase in criminality as drug dealers would need to lol elsewhere for wealth creation. You would see a significant increase in racketeering. theft and other forms of organised crime.

Great for drug takers however. Better homogenized product, accessibility of product etc. It would allow them safer environments or lifestyles to enable their habit.

There would be a large emphasis on what is or what is not legalised. You would see a gold rush from back door pharmacists developing more illicit concoctions to enable the appetites of the illegal market.

You should see a decrease in street crime associated with the necessities of addicts, they should be able to score cheaper, safer product, which means that would not have to resort to stealing and other undesirable activity to feed their habit. Or prostitution.

It should allow for Garda resources to refocus their attention on other forms of criminality.

Decriminalisation would have to be introduced in line with other EU countries, or every EU junckie would be on the next boat or plane over.

Kurooi

I'm not sure much would change regarding the economics of it. Legal drugs sold legally would be too expensive for majority of the people who take them. People currently on hard drugs will continue to look to the black market.

But reaching out and helping people with the effects or addiction would be easier to address once you're not threatening them with jail.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120229560#Comment_120229560

Well might as well ban alcohol then. And tobacco. and nicotine products. Then naturally sugar, fast food, take aways. We should certainly look to banning phones, TV, internet, games. People get way too addicted to all of that. We should strive to protect everyone from themselves. Sit back, relax and let your superiors tell you what you are and aren't allowed to do.

bannedboyband

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120229670#Comment_120229670

TBF, our "superiors" do that already.

kneemos

Methadone is available I believe for addicts wanting to quit. Don't know the ins and outs of it,but legalising hard drugs is definitely a crazy idea. People are the problem. Tobacco, alcohol,codeine products in the States,we know how it goes.

whisky_galore

Yes, people are the problem and can't be told.

If you think A&E is bad now with angry people hopped up on coke or benzos or what have you and assaulting staff just think how much worse it would be with less controls.

You will get a lot more randoms rocking up offering you gear on street corners a la Portugal too.

Pauliedragon

Does it really matter? It's defacto legal already. Police turn a blind eye to dealers every day where I live. It's not that I'm in a rough area but I'm close to Cork city. I could buy buy coke, weed, and anything else I want in the time I'm typing this post. Get it over and done with it's clear the cops don't care and I don't blame them to a point because there's no punishment. I see more bags of white powder changing hands in my small local pub than pints being ordered.

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120229560#Comment_120229560

Alcohol is an atypical recreational drug though, as it is addictive, "easy" (in the psychological sense), and very harmful when used in the long term.

Psychedelics differ from alcohol in each of these aspects, and it would be this class of drugs that I think would benefit individuals and society. But I'm probably biased on that point.

To the OP's question; we simply don't know what a free for all of all recreational drugs could look like, as it hasn't been tried in contemporary culture.

It would be the other extreme to what we have now: prohibition of all psychoactive substances bar alcohol, nicotine an caffeine, with legal consequences for those individuals who choose to consume them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120230111#Comment_120230111

I had major surgery last year and was on oxy, the hospital were very responsible and stopped the oxy on the 2nd day

in America it’s very different

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120230400#Comment_120230400

I took mushrooms at my wedding 😂😂great night

Tomaldo

I'd love to see legalization tried, if it doesn't work out, then revert to prohibition. The present policy obviously isn't working. They say about 10% of illegal drugs are seized, when I was in school if u got that in an exam, you failed and this has been happening for decades globally. When they ended prohibition in America, 3 positives happened, the Al Capones went out of the business, the product was safer and they were able to tax it.

igCorcaigh

For me, #decrim is the most important thing.

People who choose to use drugs, other than alcohol, can be fired from their jobs, evicted from their homes, hauled into a court, or worse.

It's such an invasion of the rights of an individual.

archermoo

Portugal did basically that more than 20 years ago. It seems to be working out quite well for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

slither12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120230562#Comment_120230562

What was your experience on it?

People say that opioids are the epitome of pleasure and are instantly addictive but I know a few people who just feel dizzy and nauseous on them.

Most addiction research shows that a drug is only one component of addiction and personal trauma is probably an equal if not greater predictor of getting hooked on something. Millions drink in this country throughout the week and few become full blown alcoholics.

Markcheese

Where are the drugs to come from ?marijuana could be licensed to be grown locally , or imported from Europe for eg .

Pills ect ? How would that be licensed or approved .

It probably wouldn't be cheap though , by the time gov licenses ,and taxes are paid ..

If done on a Europe wide - or Europe and Us basis ,it could change whole countries or regions economies , imagine Colombia and Bolivia , legalized coca growing , local processing into base, safe transport , controlled export and quality control ,

But would that lead to huge health problems - a question on your vhi form : do you take cocaine , we won't cover x y z conditions

TomTomTim

I have to say, in the context of this country anyway it would be pointless. The Irish state loves to suck every cent out of us that they can, so drugs would be highly taxed. A gram of weed would cost 50, a gram of coke would cost a few hundred. There'd be so much tax on drugs that the black market would still flourish making it all a waste of time.

rossie1977

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231175#Comment_120231175

The black market for illegal alcohol in Ireland isn't making any multi millionaires that I know of or huge amount of gang violence associated with it. Yet when prohibition was at its height in the US the exact same issues; crime, gangs, small groups of criminals getting super rich, badly tainted product killing consumers existed...

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231535#Comment_120231535

Legal weed has not stopped black markets. While you've a point about alcohol, we've a big black market for tobacco already which supports my point. Before the take off of the drug trade, a large amount of those smugglers used to smuggle/deal in tobacco instead.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/23/marijuana-black-market-undercuts-legal-business.html

slither12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231535#Comment_120231535

That's true but I think the poster has a point. The reason why a black market doesn't exist is because alcohol is too easy for any Tom, Dick, and Harry to ferment. Hell, if you leave grapes or apples to go bad, the natural yeast will ferment them into ethanol. As well as that, people here could just hop on a plane and go to EU countries with cheaper alcohol.

When it comes to drugs like cannabis, ecstasy, meth, or heroin, those drugs are both illegal and impossible to make yourself without expensive equipment and knowledge. Therefore, people just resort to buying from the black market.

xhomelezz

Personally, all I want is weed to be legalized.. Wouldn't touch anything else myself at this stage of my life. Not gonna buy weed on the street. How the heck I would know what I'm getting?

rossie1977

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231550#Comment_120231550

Legalisation isn't going to get rid of all black market activities no but it would massively reduce it.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231570#Comment_120231570

Ehhh... It's ridiculously easy to grow cannabis.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231804#Comment_120231804

It is. But most people don't want to get caught with a couple of plants ..

If marijuana were legalized , what sort of restrictions would be placed on that , age of the buyer ? THC content ? , How it's processed ,

And would you legalize everything or just decriminalize certain drugs ?

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120229540#Comment_120229540

of course this absolutely did not happen.

What actually happened was that greedy scumbags exploited the fact that drugs had to be added to the a list on the Miss Use of Drugs Act. So they imported new and untested chemicals from china and sold them to every one any any one regardless of age. the result was massively damaging health and mental health issues. this was ended by this

Criminal Justice (Psychoactive Substances) Act 2010 (irishstatutebook.ie)

One or two head shops were damaged or attacked by drug dealers but all the rest were shut down by regulation not criminal activity's

Ham_Sandwich

everyone and their granny does have a few joints during the week then a few bags of sniff on the weekend no point in keeping it illegal

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235554#Comment_120235554

Are you asking me, or the world in general? I was just pointing out that it's very easy to grow cannabis. You don't need anything special. When I was younger I had a cannabis plant growing on my windowsill (4th storey up tbf 😂)

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235824#Comment_120235824

I can't picture my gran ever having been like that .. either of them ..

But I don't see that all drugs should be criminalized either

Tony EH

What would an Ireland with full legalization of drugs be?

A fucking nightmare.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237301#Comment_120237301

The horses start talking riddles

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120230221#Comment_120230221

As Peter Hitches says on this issue - there isn't any war on drugs.

So one can't say the war on drugs isn't working.

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120229540#Comment_120229540

I remember them, those places were a disaster, as were the hoards of shambling 'Spice' zombies they created in the streets around them and cluttering up psych wards. It will be no different with weed. The Irish, in common with the American Indian, seem to have a predilection for addiction. I'd say a ton of areas will end up looking like an Indian reservation trailer parks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238637#Comment_120238637

The war on drugs is real but it’s such a catastrophic failure in both practice and the theory behind it.

That being the assumption at the time America began their “war on drugs” was they were all bad end of story. We now know better so the whole thing has lost its sex appeal, I guess.

It’s not heroic to target drugs anymore now you’re just wasting police resources. Whenever I see garda have raided someone and seized a bunch of heroin I’ll think that’s good. Good to see.

When it comes to rather harmless things like cannabis or mushrooms I just think what a waste of time and energy.

As for the OP and thread topic I think full legislation of all illegal drugs is a stupid idea. I think decriminalisation is a better idea.

Patrick2010

What a waste of garda resources here...

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/cancer-survivor-convicted-of-growing-cannabis-says-he-wouldnt-be-alive-without-the-drug/1611531244.html

“So, I grew the three plants to have some in reserve and that’s when they [the gardai] caught me.

“They knocked on the door and said: ‘We’ve got a search warrant for your house’. I let them in. I didn’t hide anything and I told them exactly what was going on.

“I must admit they were very nice, they were gentleman about it. They never said how they ended up at my door.”

Appearing before Judge Mary Larkin at Kilrush District Court last week, James pleaded guilty to the cultivation of cannabis without a licence at his home on July 3, 2021. He was convicted and fined €100.

But James is unapologetic over his actions and called for the law to be looked at where it concerns cannabis and medical need.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239092#Comment_120239092

You couldn’t have summed up my last point any better! this is exactly the type of craic that makes my eyes roll. Fair play the Garda were sound about it though. I’ve seen them act like flipping FBI agents over some weed before.

€100 fine.. even the judge thinks it’s a joke!

MudSpud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120229560#Comment_120229560

Did Prohibition stop people drinking in the US? All it did was drive home brewing into the hands of bootleggers and whiskey importation into the hands of the Mob. People still continued to get sh!t-faced.

Ham_Sandwich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239177#Comment_120239177

exactly let them at it

RobbingBandit

No way would pure uncut cocaine or opioids such as Oxycotton ever be freely legally available to one and all for purchase here, they're way too addictive and dangerous in the wrong hands.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239177#Comment_120239177

Do drink/drug driver laws stop everyone from getting into a car under the influence and doing harm to themselves or someone else? No, some people will still engage in destructive behaviour anyway. But it does cut down the numbers dramatically, and so saves many lives.

The same thing can be argued for sensible laws around drugs. Some people will still take drugs, and some of those people will still become addicted and have major problems. But laws do keep these problems to a manageable level, and prevent society from being overwhelmed by such issues.