"GAA star in alleged scam" Mod Note on page 1 and 2

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120266134#Comment_120266134

Yeah and fucked the entire nation. But yeah a victory is a victory

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120263287#Comment_120263287

"Bogball" isn't exactly to most progressive term to hear from someone who thinks "countyman" is not acceptable.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120263885#Comment_120263885

I'd say there's a certain generation in this country who would like an exhumation. Could never have enough politicians to call by their first name.

evolvingtipperary101

The below from the IT - I think sticks to the facts.

Denis O’Brien provides gardaí with extensive details of GAA star’s alleged fraud

Businessman provided man with large sums of cash and use of properties

As well as handing over cash, Denis O'Brien allowed the man under investigation to use property he owned. Photograph: Matt Kavanagh/The Irish Times

Denis O’Brien has provided gardaí with extensive information on a former GAA star under investigation for widespread fraud.

The sportsman made a number of approaches to the businessman who agreed to help him.

He allegedly requested large amounts of cash in the form of payments and loans from the billionaire, claiming he needed it to fund his cancer treatment. As well as handing over large sums of cash, Mr O’Brien also agreed to let the man use some of his properties, The Irish Times understands.

It is understood the businessman was eager to help the man and did not seek proof of his illness or the treatment costs.

Mr O’Brien is assisting the Garda with the investigation and has spoken with detectives from the Garda National Economic Crime Bureau (GNECB) about his dealings with the sports star. He has provided them with extensive information, including details of the financial transactions and his contacts with the man.

A spokesman for Mr O’Brien said on Sunday he had no comment to make on the matter.

The billionaire is one of many people allegedly approached by the sports star. Several of these have already made Garda statements.

Detectives are understood to be eager to speak to the sportsman, who cannot be named for legal reasons, and are waiting for an appropriate opportunity. No arrests have been made to date.

The Garda National Economic Crime Bureau is investigating whether the retired player deceived friends and business acquaintances into lending him money for medical and other bills.

Detectives are examining whether or not he falsely claimed that he had cancer when he approached people looking for money. The prominent former player is understood to have agreed loan arrangements with those from whom he took the money.

The sums involved range from a few thousand euro to more than €100,000. The sums he received from Mr O’Brien are believed to amount to tens of thousands of euro.

Efforts to contact the former GAA star for comment have proven unsuccessful. He has not responded to queries by email concerning his financial dealings.

It was known within his local community that the former star regularly claimed to own land overseas and that he was about to sell it netting him a financial windfall.

In more recent years, he told people who loaned him money that he was due to receive an insurance payout on a medical negligence claim.

According to one GAA official, the sportsman was seeking money for treatment as far back as a decade ago.

The one-time official, from the GAA’s Asian branch, approached the sports star in 2013 with a view to inviting him to be a guest at the annual GAA finals in Asia in Malaysia that year.

The invite was made in person to the retired player on the fringes of the 2013 All Ireland football final at Croke Park, during a meeting with another former GAA star.

Towards the end of discussions, the retired athlete requested an appearance fee of €10,000. This was rejected and the sports star was told that only travel and other expenses would be paid.

The former player then said that he had a serious cancer condition, which could only be treated in the US and that the money would be going toward his treatment.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257139#Comment_120257139

Didn't gamble according to this

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/gaa/gaa-star-centre-alleged-cancer-29259624

He probably looked at the living professional elite sportsmen were making, in golf, football, tennis etc. and felt he was owed similar.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120266510#Comment_120266510

I'd be weary of what that tabloid publishes.

Bobtheman

I'm pretty convinced there must be enough evidence to at least charge him.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120268538#Comment_120268538

How do you mean "at least charge him" . What else do you think they should/could do?

By all accounts said player is living in a homeless shelter in his native county.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120268646#Comment_120268646

No, he's in hospital pretending to be sick again. No, he's gone into hiding. No, he's left the country. You're all like a bunch of gossipping old biddies.

Deregos.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120268676#Comment_120268676

Suppose it comes with the territory. If you've got a public forum you're always gonna get a **** load of gossip, speculation and innuendo when there's someone famous under the microscope.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120268676#Comment_120268676

He is in hospital end of story. I'd be pretty sure that's genuine given the **** that's flying around.

The guards have his passport. This has all been confirmed

ForFsSake

Cant get my head around this.

A bank loans someone millions of punts, with property worth millions of punts secured against the loan, and they finish up with no property and no millions paid back. Hope they get to the bottom of who said write it off and why.

I owed a few hundred euro on a credit card to the same bank and they couldn't get into a court and send a bailiff to my door quick enough.

One rule for some and another for others it seems. I guess I don't know the right people!

lisasimpson

There are no winners in the whole saga. He could have lived a modest comfortable lifestyle of his legacy. Be it commentary work, public appearance fees, motivational talks, coaching and getting all expenses trips to GAA events globally. However it seem greed took over and got addicted to the high life

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120269083#Comment_120269083

In fairness , thats how it always works.

If you are rich/famous you get loads of stuff for free, and/or will get paid to endorse stuff.

This case just takes it to another level.

MABS do get similar writedowns on loans/debts for 'ordinary' people tho.... But you would have to be declared bankrupt/insolvent..

Obviously this person didnt want to go down that route. Its a shame he didnt, as it would not be as much of a scandal as it is now.......

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120266373#Comment_120266373

This is pretty funny to be fair. You'd think someone around as long as Dinny would have a bit more cop on than that.

Stanley 1

Mod Edit

Warning issued.

Bobtheman

When I say they must have enough to at least charge him I mean whether a case proceeds or not is up the DPP

I'm going by the amount of people who have come forward with claims about him. The only thing that could prevent this moving forward is if it does indeed turn out that he really did need expensive treatment.

Then it's up to a court to decide guilt..

Though in general most charges do lead to at least a trial

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120266373#Comment_120266373

Denis Ó Brien such a nice man. I'm really sad to see him taken for a ride.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270946#Comment_120270946

I wonder does O'Brien still possess the same power to block stories...

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270843#Comment_120270843

If the person in question is charged, then I presume they can be named?

But then it will be before the courts and we won't be able to discuss it!

Catch 22.

evolvingtipperary101

Apparently, the K Club properties and Mount Juliet property reached around 7 million during an economic crash? Would they get that kind of money? That RTE report seems to have caused more trouble. Looks to have been addressed here below.

AIB has addressed the controversy around the bank’s debt write-down for hurling star DJ Carey telling staff in an internal memo that it exhausts “all appropriate avenues” to recover debts.

In the circular, the bank’s head of retail banking, Jim O’Keeffe, did not name Mr Carey, saying that he could not comment on individual cases for legal reasons, but told staff that he wanted to clarify AIB’s approach to debt write-downs in light of “commentary in recent days.”

In the memo, seen by The Irish Times, Mr O’Keeffe told staff that “some of the external commentary over recent days does not provide the full picture” and that the bank had a “robust governance process for debt resolution and this process was followed”.

RTÉ reported last Friday that Mr Carey’s debt judgment of €9.5 million was written down with a settlement of €60,000, which the broadcaster said represented a 99.4 per cent write-down on the original debt.

However, the report did not take account of the sale of golf resort properties securing the debt at the K Club in Co Kildare and at Mount Juliet in Co Kilkenny in the years after the 2011 judgment and how the sale proceeds went towards the reduction of Mr Carey’s debt to the bank.

It is estimated that Mr Carey’s €9.5 million debt to the bank was written down by about 80 per cent after the sale of the golf resort properties and the €60,000 settlement are taken into account.

The judgment was secured in 2011 mostly on a €7.85 million loan to Mr Carey secured on the properties at the K Club and Mount Juliet golf resorts.

In the wake of the report on Mr Carey’s write-down, Government ministers and opposition politicians called for AIB to appear before the Oireachtas finance committee to answer questions on the bank’s debt agreement with the hurling star.

In his memo, Mr O’Keeffe set out the procedures followed by the bank to recover debts where AIB has secured a judgment against a borrower over outstanding debts.

“In situations where the legal system is ultimately required to resolve cases, we may seek judgment to allow us dispose of the secured assets and wider assets if appropriate, he said.

“In such cases, the process seeks to exhaust all appropriate avenues to realise value of the bank from any available secured assets.”

Mr O’Keeffe told staff in the circular sent to thousands of AIB staff on Tuesday that the bank may also “take account of third party certification as to a borrower’s income and asset status and may also consider other documentation relating to the borrower’s personal circumstances”.

He said that “where customers are in financial difficulty, our resolution process is based on their ability to repay, taking account of the customers’ assets and their sustainable income levels”.

This approach had been applied to more than 150,000 customer cases over many years “in a fair and consistent manner” and that “the vast majority” were able to meet their new arrangements and “move on with their personal and business lives”.

evolvingtipperary101

AIB are trying to get a narrative out there ahead of the below?

The Oireachtas Finance Committee is to request senior management from Allied Irish Banks (AIB) to appear before it to answer questions about the bank's policy on debt write-downs.

The committee met this afternoon to discuss the matter and TDs and Senators are keen to have the issue addressed quickly.

It emerged at the weekend that DJ Carey secured a settlement with AIB in 2017 through which a debt of over €9.5m was written down to €60,000.

This meant that the former Kilkenny hurler had to pay just 0.63% of the original amount owed to the majority State-owned bank.

The Finance Committee wants to know how many debts were written down by more than 90% during the last decade.

A letter will now be sent to AIB from the committee in which it will ask what system and methodology the bank used for write-downs.

It will also seek to find out if debt write-downs were flagged to the bank's board and its public interest directors.

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270843#Comment_120270843

Those with a better knowledge of the law than me believe it will be difficult to bring charges. Unless there were written agreements you are dealing with a 'he said she said' situation. While he clearly took money under false pretences those that did so gave him the money voluntarily. It is not as straightforward as people think.

Purple Mountain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271533#Comment_120271533

I'd well imagine it.

There's probably nothing in writing to state what the money was sought for.

I'd hope the individual,if charged, would just plead guilty (if of course these "allegations" are all true) and take their punishment.

Too many people were taken advantage of, if this is true, so just man up and face the consequences I say.

cal naughton

It's amusing the amount of people that think just because someone was an all star that qualifies them for a debt write down.

Those South county Dublin bank execs wouldn't know one end of a hurl from the other!

The lad has no job or skills so what could they do take 20 per week from his dole!!

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271643#Comment_120271643

The idea that the man has no skills or had no job is beyond the beyonds. He must have been with Carlow IT for nearly ten years...

Bobtheman

Lots of people got ridiculous money with hardly any assets

evolvingtipperary101

RTE just came back swinging. Irish Times will need to have a good look at themselves after swallowing that AIB narrative. See below:

It has emerged that properties used as security for borrowings from AIB of €7.85m by former Kilkenny hurler DJ Carey were sold by the bank in 2014 and 2015, realising €1.52m for the bank.

A further property for which AIB had loaned €1.5m, and for which Mr Carey had signed a personal guarantee, was sold by the bank for €285,000 in 2014.

In 2017, at least 20 months after the final property sale had concluded Mr Carey secured a "full and final settlement" with the bank.

Prime Time obtained a copy of that settlement, under which Mr Carey secured debt forgiveness from the State-owned bank of over 99% of his outstanding AIB debt, which at the time was over €6.4m.

Last week, Prime Time reported on the settlement document which suggested that Mr Carey secured a 99.4% reduction on a debt of €9.5m to AIB.

The settlement document did not refer to the sale of the properties mentioned above, but once these are considered the actual debt forgiveness received by Mr Carey in 2017 was slightly over 99% of the smaller sum of at least €6.4m.

The bank secured a High Court judgment for €9.5m on 9 May 2011, arising from a €7.85m loan to Mr Carey that was secured on one house at Mount Juliet in Kilkenny and another house at the K-Club in Kildare, as well as a personal guarantee given by Mr Carey relating to a €1.5m loan secured on an apartment at the K-Club.

In Mr Carey's debt settlement document titled 'Compromise of certain liabilities you have to AIB Mortgage Bank', Mr Carey agreed to pay AIB €60,000 "in full and final satisfaction" of the debt owed. That €60,000 figure was less than 1% of the outstanding balance.

According to the Residential Property Price Register, in 2014 and 2015 the properties used as security for Mr Carey’s AIB debt sold for €799,000, €285,000 and €717,000 - a combined total of €1.8m.

Mr Carey’s settlement with AIB was conditional upon payment by him of the €60,000 within three months.

It is not clear from the documents obtained by Prime Time when the payment was made, but 12 months later the bank wrote to Mr Carey to acknowledge that it had received the money.

The agreement also stated that it was a "requirement" that Mr Carey’s signature be witnessed by a practising solicitor who had provided independent legal advice to Mr Carey.

However, rather than a solicitor, Mr Carey’s signature was witnessed by an accountant.

DJ Carey has not responded to a request for an interview. Allied Irish Banks has said it does not comment on individual cases.

However, AIB staff received an email today from the bank's Managing Director of Retail Banking, Jim O’Keeffe, which sought to clarify the bank’s approach, in general to debt write-down.

Mr O'Keefe told staff that: "Where customers are in financial difficulty, our resolution process is based on their ability to repay, taking account of the customers’ assets and their sustainable income levels."

He said that "the process seeks to exhaust all appropriate avenues to realise value for the bank from any available secured assets" and that "it also may take account of third-party certification as to a borrower’s income and asset status and may also consider other documentation relating to the borrower’s personal circumstances".

"Clearly, I cannot comment on any individual cases for legal reasons, but I would like to reassure you that some of the external commentary over recent days does not provide the full picture", Mr O’Keeffe said, adding that "I also want to reassure you that the bank has a robust governance process for debt resolution and this process was followed."

ForFsSake

In the memo, seen by The Irish Times, Mr O’Keeffe told staff that ............ the bank had a “robust governance process for debt resolution and this process was followed”.

I look forward to this "robust governance process" getting examined by a Dail Committee and seeing just how robust it was.