So I heard yesterday that there is talk of pet owners having to do a theory test.

AMKC

What do people in here think of this idea?

I think yes fir big dogs and cars certainly they should have to do a test as they are dangerous pets to have the same if someone is going to have snakes or crocodiles or other dangerous animals.

Put if it's a small dog like a Yorkshire Terrier or a Pemeranine or a jack Russell then I think no.

dashoonage

Yup and off the lead Jack Russell has never bitten anyone before.

HeidiHeidi

An off-lead Jack Russell was terrorising the herd of deer in the Phoenix Park yesterday. Chasing them around the Ashtown gate area and across the main road through traffic to the 15 acres.

That owner (who was nowhere to be seen) needs more than a theory test.

And it's Pomeranian.

IceT

Honestly I think that you should have to do a course for any restricted breeds, similar to when you get a driving licence. There should be an official certification process for dog trainers to run these courses for the restricted breeds and then if you do not pass you cannot buy or own a restricted dog.

While it would be ideal to do that for every breed its not practical so just a theory test for all other breeds should be done. And for working dogs, athletic breeds or dogs that require a lot of physical and mental stimulation you should be made to show that you can provide the required physical and mental stimulation. That would cut out so much of the reactive behaviour by dogs, plus help with destruction of property at home.

People buy dogs without having a notion of what the breed need, what their behaviour is likely to be and what they should and should not do with them. Are the basic needs of your dog able to be physically met in your home & environment?

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201248#Comment_120201248

What's the restricted breeds in Ireland? And what are the reasons for those breeds to be there?

There's no need to make differences between restricted unrestricted or whatever you want to call it. People need to be educated, before getting any dog. Dogs are not teddy bears, they are living loyal creatures deserving respect and care. The minute people will realize it, there will be no need for absolutely useless lists and full shelters..

thegame983

No.

The government are just using the recent dog attack on that poor boy as a grift to siphon money from people.

tk123

I think they should concentrate on trying to enforce the laws and rules they already have in place before adding another one to the pile.

HeidiHeidi

I doubt they'd make much from it.

If having to do a course reduced the amount of neglected, unsocialised, mistreated, abused dogs, many of which wind up in overflowing shelters who can barely cope these days from what I read - then I for one am all for it.

micah537

IceT

There's only one report carried out on dog bites in Ireland which was in 2008. The findings are that the breeds most involved in bite incidents were collies which accounted for 42 incidents, terrier breeds 31 incidents, cocker or springer spaniels accounted for 22, jack Russell terriers 20, crossbreeds 12, golden retrievers 6 and Dachshunds 5.

So why is it only restricted breeds owners that need to do a course? Sure pitbull attacks seem to be increasing but let's take German Shepherd's for example, which are extremely popular here for decades and weren't listed in the above report. Either they should be removed from the list or a hell of a lot of other dogs need to be added to it.

A labrador has a very strong bite force comparable to a pitbull or GSD for example. The Caucasian Shepherd, Tibetan Mastiff and Kangal aren't on the list and have ridiculous bite force.

It's worth noting that the UK don't have a restricted breed list, just 4 banned breeds.

What's the point in bringing in more nonsense regulations when realistically this country has so much unenforced laws. A decent percentage of cars aren't insured or NCT'd for example. So who is going to enforce the these new dog regulations against the local scumbag with a pitbull starved so it will be aggressive? The answer, nobody, but it will cause unnecessary hassle for good dog owners who have a so called restricted breed resulting from a stupid knee jeck reaction from a few decades ago.

micah537

All snakes or just some?

I'm guessing you own a Yorkshire Terrier or JR so you feel you should be immune to any regulations?

I presume you meant cats and not cars. So a Maine Coon owner will need a test but not a regular cat owner? Really.

unimaginativeusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058282841/so-i-heard-yesterday-that-there-is-talk-of-pet-owners-having-to-do-a-theory-test

I'd support that idea. I've posted before about wanting to get a large dog breed while I live in an apartment. I've done extensive homework on the breed I'm interested in, but I still have to repeat the spiel over and over to people who think it's wrong. I'd happily go through some sort of process to obtain a license if it was "proof" I was a responsible owner - especially living in an apartment where it's more of a communal space and I do feel I have some responsibility to be respectful of other residents especially children or people with a fear of dogs.

And likewise, the number of people who buy or rescue a dog with ZERO clue of what's involved is crazy. Most are well meaning but if it reduced unwanted or neglected pets then it's not a bad idea.

Agree the government look for ways to swindle money out of us but maybe it could be offset by a discount on the dog license or something.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206934#Comment_120206934

All snakes big and small poisonous or not poisonous although who woukd want an actually poisonous snake as a pet is beyond me unless it's a meglo maniac or a villian.

Yes I meant cats. I really should have edited that. I meant to but got caught up in other things.

I know nothing about cats really except that they have rough thungs that they can clean themselves with have very good hearing and sight just not as detailed as ours so like most other animals then and can climb a lot oh and have very sharp nails.

As for Yorkshire Terriors and Jack Russels have you ever seem or heard of one kill or injure a child cause I sure have not. In fact I tamed a rather angry one in my estate who was being badly mistreated as well as left out in the rain and cold. He is a dote now.

I rescued him from the horrible family who had him and they were actually greatly for it.

How you treat an animal has a big impact on their personality as well but an angry big dog is a lot more dangerous than a small one.

Faith

As for Yorkshire Terriors and Jack Russels have you ever seem or heard of one kill or injure a child cause I sure have not.

The answer is in the post three above yours:

There's only one report carried out on dog bites in Ireland which was in 2008. The findings are that the breeds most involved in bite incidents were collies which accounted for 42 incidents, terrier breeds 31 incidents, cocker or springer spaniels accounted for 22, jack Russell terriers 20, crossbreeds 12, golden retrievers 6 and Dachshunds 5.

Anecdotes are not data.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120212196#Comment_120212196

The 2008 data needs to be considered in conjunction with the number of each of those breeds in the country at that time.

micah537

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211088#Comment_120211088

https://www.askthedogguy.com/dog-attack-yorkshire-terrier-leaves-blackburn-boy-9-afraid/

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/girl-17-attacked-and-bitten-by-jack-russell-as-a-child-settles-high-court-action-for-92000-36805721.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237532/amp/Pet-Jack-Russell-killed-day-old-boy-escaped-stair-gate-attack-child.html

There you go, bites and kills from Yorkies and JR.

As for snakes, a ball python, milk snake, corn snake are harmless in fairness. Actually snakes in general are useful to humans. Scientists are working on using venom to cure cancer, some farmers in other countries find them useful for killing rodents etc. Some snakes are very calm when handled properly and won't kill an older kid.

You amitted you don't know anything about cats but you'll give your opinion anyway despite a lack of knowledge. A Maine Coon is bigger than a normal cat, smarter and more tolerant with kids but they should be made more difficult to own?

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058282841/so-i-heard-yesterday-that-there-is-talk-of-pet-owners-having-to-do-a-theory-test

You have a better chance talking to the dog.

IceT

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201315#Comment_120201315

There are 10 restricted breeds in Ireland, no banned breeds. The restrictions means that these breeds need to be muzzled in public, these dogs lists must be on a short, less than 2 meters (6.5 feet), lead. The leash must be ‘sufficiently strong’ or it needs to be a chain, Dogs must wear a collar at all times with the owners information on it. This information should include owners name & address. These dogs can only be led by people over the age of 16. There are exceptions to these rules for Dogs being used by the Garda, Army, Customs, Search and Rescue and a bunch of other Governmental agencies.

The list of restricted breeds is:

• American Pit Bull Terrier
• English Bull Terrier
• Staffordshire Bull Terrier
• Bull Mastiff
• Dobermann Pinscher
• Rottweiler
• German Shepherd (Alsatian)
• Rhodesian Ridgeback
• Japanese Akita
• Japanese Tosa
• Any mix of the above

And I wholeheartedly agree, as I said in my original post my suggestion should be for all dogs. You SHOULD need a course for each and every dog, you should be able to pass a "Driving Test" with a professional to show they have the knowledge and skills to control and train that dog. But its not realistic and 1) it would not happen and 2) people would just ignore the law. Laws should be realistic and enforceable. Hence why I said the, going back to the driving analogy, theory test for none restricted breed and driving test with a professional for restricted breeds.

I've been working as a dog trainer and behaviorist for 20 years now and in almost all cases the issues I have seen have come from an owner (obviously rescues sometimes it is not the fault of my client but the previous owner but you get the point), lack of knowledge and understanding is the cause of the majority of the issues.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206921#Comment_120206921

These are all working dogs, I have spent most of my career specifically not recommending these breeds to people. Most of the information I have read is from studies in the UK and listing to other professional from the UK. I'd imagine that the reason why Australian sheep dogs are not on this list is because it is an old study. Dalmations are a major issue in the UK with biting kids. The The Caucasian Shepherd, Tibetan Mastiff and Kangal are hugely dangerous breeds when in the wrong hands, along with the Bully XL & Dogo Argentino among others. A Rottweiler, my favorite breed by that way (that and GSD) has enough bite strength to break bone.

My main issue is that, to be honest, the current restricted breeds law actually achieves nothing in the long run. Yes obviously it will technically reduce the likelihood that a dog on the list will be able to hurt anyone but with the correct training and environment those dogs would pose almost no danger to anyone, on or off lead, muzzle or no muzzle. The problem is that unless the owner has the correct equipment, environment, space, lifestyle, skills & knowledge to be able to train and maintain control over the dog then you will still have a reactive dog, and with the restricted breeds you have one that weighs a huge amount that is hard to control and the risk is huge. In an ideal world most dogs would be able to live a normal unrestricted life but as most people do not really have proper control of their dogs then incidents happen all the time.

REPTILEDAN88

Sounds like another way for the government to make money is all, sure a "dog licence" or a "tv licence" don't make you more competent a driving licence does though they're just taxes. There is nothing done to parents/guardians who neglect their children or rather become complacent ending up with their dog/s killing their child/child in their care so the likely hood of trying to enforce anything like a pet licence is ridiculous unless we're going to prosecute those for being in charge of the children and dog at the time when a child is killed. The assumption that oh xyz breed needs to be restricted because of someones made up idea of them being aggressive/dangerous when some of those breeds have never been recorded to kill a person in this country while plenty of other breeds have done, don't require being muzzled in public or are banned from council owned properties etc is wrong too sure not long after Stephen Power was attacked by in 98' in Dublin by 2 dogs was when the restricted breed list came into affect there was a case of a Labrador attacking a child yet they weren't put on the RB list, you might say well they never killed/attacked anyone well when was the last time a Japanese Tosa attacked or killed someone in Ireland ? Will Daschunds x Terrier be put on the RB list considering its what killed Mia O'Connell will they f*ck, the reaction to the Alejandro Miszan case was a kneejerk one with PitBull this, American Bully that, vilifying restricted breed owners in particular Bull breed owners to a point the media as usual state them all as dangerous, unlike the Mia O'Connell case where the breed barely gets a mention and of course no snarling daschund x photo to accompany the reports like there is if its theres Bull Breed dogs etc involved.

As for other pets, I kept venomous and non venomous snakes and lizards, turtles, tortoises, crocodilians and many other exotics for years, guess how many times my venomous snakes etc go out and bit or killed someone NONE, nor has any snake EVER killed a person in this country. There was one recorded venomous bite to a keeper who likely had no business keeping this species (Puff Adder) in 2020. In Ireland there are big cats, wolves, scorpions, tarantulas, raccoons, meerkats, monkeys and all sorts kept as pets and the vast majority are kept better than your average dog owners dog.

In the UK theres a DWA licence that you need for potentially dangerous animals from venomous snakes to big cats etc where you need to be insured for public liability, vets sign off on your ability to keep the animal, the councils have restrictions like locked rooms with windows in the case of some or adequate space enclosures etc for the big cats etc. That said does it work Yes & No. Like in take for example if I lived in NI, without a DWA licence I legally cant keep these animals but I can drive down south pick up a Tiger etc and drive home and have it at home unless people found out and reported me or if I lived in England I can go to Europe and bring animals back in my car that might require having a DWA licence. Theres been anonymous questionnaires for illegal DWA keepers in the UK to help the likes of the NHS incase of a bite so they have adequate antivenom of a given species/genus etc that places like the LSTM (Liverpool school of Tropical Medicine) might not stock regularly, thats a place where many snakes venoms and other poisonous animals are studied etc for helping cure/treat illnesses like diabetes, hiv, malaria etc.