3000 km of hedgerow destroyed per year

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2023/0203/1353624-hedgerows-ireland/

So, very little native forest and 3000 km of hedgerow removed every year.

What a depressing country this is.

And if the argument is "blocks the view of the road", crops up, can't trees/hedgerows be planted away from roads ..

What do people want to pass onto their kids ? Tarmac and potholes ?

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058282796/3000-km-of-hedgerow-destroyed-per-year

I would love to know where the 3000km are?

I have seen feck all removed over the last number of years and have known people fined for doing so.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197753#Comment_120197753

About 80,000~95,000 km of road in Ireland

3,000/yr would be at such a relative rate you indeed, might not notice the frog boiling. 10 years to notice when a third is gone, etc.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/449839/ireland-length-of-road-network-by-road-type/

Car99

I see alot getting cleared down our way , limerick/tipp, to make way for more super green forced grass with not a weed I sight for some reason.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058282796/3000-km-of-hedgerow-destroyed-per-year

This is what 3000KM looks like. I call BS.

gussieg

Living in maynooth /celbridge /kilcock area, its disappearing at a fast and saddening rate. Concrete and roundabouts is all we'll have soon.

Conversations 3

For every Km of hedgerow you remove you have to replant elsewhere or else you get a massive fine.

Satellite inspections are particularly good at picking this up.

Although the county council could be a different story and do what they like.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197788#Comment_120197788

This is the length of your intestine:

Do you know how many lengths of string you could lay out on irelands roads without ever touching one another?

(It's about 95,000 km, according to Statista..) Nobody said it was a single road from A to B going 3,000 km as the crow flies, hey.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197766#Comment_120197766

The only places I really see removal is where someone is building a house.

The one that has really change from years ago is the cutting of hedges in the backend.

Years ago they were trimmed back earlier in the year so that they weren't growing out all over the road.

Now you find they are cut back to nothing for the winter as they are only cut once a year at the very end of growth.

Car99

I presume hedgerow isn't just roadside hedgerow it include all hedgerow including those between fields

elperello

Yes it would include field boundaries.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197821#Comment_120197821

This is the claim - So, very little native forest and 3000 km of hedgerow removed every year.

every year?? really?? Those were some busy people during 2 years of Covid lockdown, They must have been really busy in the years after the Celtic tiger crash, no the claim every year does not stack up.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198061#Comment_120198061

He said that the organisation is recognising a pattern where large investment companies are buying up large tracts of land and pursuing a "short-term unsustainable form of agriculture, facilitated by the current rules around hedge removal".

Up to half a kilometre of hedgerow can be removed without environmental assessment or scrutiny.

In cases above half a kilometre, there needs to be permission.

Mr Moore said that 95% of applications for hedgerow removal are approved, which he described as a "very worrying pattern".

Whether it 'stacks up' or not there are reportedly receipts.

Development of land from agricultural to other use is the main one, I think, from working in the field so to speak. Areas near any town or city, you have developments removing hedgerows wholesale. Also road realignments, active travel etc. Some agricultural intensification too, but not the majority. Very few councils, a couple in Dublin and Co. Offaly are trying to halt this.

There is some replacement by replanting but this stat relates solely to removal. Ecology 101 stuff but generally the more longer established the habitat, eg hedgerow the more diverse, often with concealed (genetic) diversity.

And I haven't read the report detailing the figure of 3000km, so can't comment on accuracy, but as an order of magnitude it seems possible.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198061#Comment_120198061

Very little native forest is true

The hedgerow claim, is something RTE should get proof of before they publish it. They are heavily funded by the tax payer, license payer and advertising ... they should follow through on these claims.

Pa ElGrande

Another consideration suburbia is not a desert. 13,000-20,000 years ago, this was was a barren ice cap. It because tundra for a while, likely 8,000 years ago the area was heavily forested or a swampy mess. As far as we can tell humans have been active on this island for 8,000 years. In that time both our ancestors and ourselves have been reshaping the landscape to suit our needs. Hedgerows are entirely a man made intervention from the time of the Normans on. The last of the native forests were cut down to build the British navy. During the 18th and 19th centuries the land was mostly used for tillage, which fell off after the end of the corn laws and farmers switched to cattle farming being unable to compete with the United States. Practically everything you see in the Irish countryside today was shaped by man.

Let's look at suburbia there is no shortage of trees, or shrubs, there is an ecosystem there that supports wildlife. How many of you have bird feeders? That's a real plus for many species compared to the countryside during Winter. Do you think insects have nothing to feed on in these gardens? I spend part of my time Dublin and I've built up a buffet for birds and insects. Right now I have crocus open across the lawn, Daphne in bloom, this is a major plus at this time of year for queen bees and these plants are non native to Ireland. Mice nesting in the compost heap are a problem, but they are managed with cats. During the Summer my garden has lots of bats in the evening and Swifts nest tin the eaves of houses.

The idea that the country must be turned into a wildlife theme park is ridiculous, the landscape will continue to change. The ubiqutpus magpie did not exist in Ireland before the 11th century, the rabbit came in with the Normans, the collared dove only arrived in the 1960s. The harriers are non native they depend on coniferous forest. Different species will come and go and adapt to the new environment.

That area you are looking at in suburbia is not mono culture agriculture, it is much more diverse.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198372#Comment_120198372

Dublin:

much diverse (some green cars in there maybe)

Still just sowing doubts for no reason when its reported there are receipts.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198165#Comment_120198165

The hedgerow claim is BS . There is no way that 3000 km of them are removed . Maybe they are referring to hedges being trimmed ? These folks tend to exaggerate

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198397#Comment_120198397

Still just sowing doubts for no reason when its reported there are receipts.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198413#Comment_120198413

Receipts for what ?

rdhma

3000 km a year of hedgerow cut is not enough. A danger to road users, blocks any view of the countryside.

They are man-made, not some gift from nature and plenty of other countries don't have them.

Yes, plant more forestry, create wildlife reserves, wetlands etc. But get rid of the roadside hedgerows.

riffmongous

The figure doesn't seem that unlikely considering the below.

Estimates of the length of hedgerow in Ireland range from 300,000 - 700,000kms..

A Teagasc study on the matter

County specific hedgerow results were presented for Monaghan described by Shirley Clerkin, Heritage Officer, Monaghan County Council as a drumlin, wetland, hedged county...

The study was split into two phases in 2010; baseline hedges which were randomly chosen from twelve 1km2 squares; and hedges which were perceived to be of High Ecological value, namely townland boundary hedges and those connected to native woodland. Both sets of hedges were re-surveyed and results outlined in this report.

With the results showing a decade of change, the news is very poor according to Shirley. Extent, floristic composition, physical structure and management of hedges were assessed. In 2010, there was an estimated 12,845 kms of hedges with over 1,000 kms removed in the following decade – based on a survey of 108 hedges. In the 12 sample squares surveyed, over 10 kms were removed. This equates to 0.9% may have be removed annually in County Monaghan, far higher than the EPA estimate of 0.3%. The main reason was agriculture - in three-quarters of the cases.

tabby aspreme

To me this report lost all credence as soon as I read NGO, just more grifters looking to big themselves up, to get on the government funding tit, I'd travel a lot of the country and its very rare to see hedge's/ ditches removed, except for housing or road development, and I'm speaking as someone who's added 600m of hedges and planted 6 hectares of native forestry on my own land .

It would be more in their line to highlight the absolute shi#show that is the forest service, which anyone trying to plant trees has to deal with.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197889#Comment_120197889

It's a serious thing to remove a hedge on a farm without settings space aside to replace it, the total stock of hedge has increased in the last few years, thankfully.

I personally have planted about 3km of hedges and will be putting in another 1km this year.

.

Condor24

Where are the Greens on this? Once upon a time they cared about the countryside. Now it's all about 'cycle access' and 'sustainability'. All urban Greens have forgotten their roots.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198496#Comment_120198496

I was answering another poster and confirming that the total figure for removal includes non roadside hedgerows.

Clearly you are doing a good job on your farm and are not part of the problem.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198372#Comment_120198372

There is a huge amount of nonsense in there.

Let's look at suburbia there is no shortage of trees, or shrubs, there is an ecosystem there that supports wildlife.

Many plants in urban areas are non-native and therefore useless for bird nesting purposes.

During the Summer my garden has lots of bats in the evening and Swifts nest tin the eaves of houses.

Swift don't nest in hedges or trees so not sure why you're mentioning them. However, with modern building methods, their numbers have dramatically fallen due to the lack of suitable nesting sites.

Much of the rest of what you posted really is daft but the cherry on the cakes this bit:

Different species will come and go and adapt to the new environment.

So we should just say f**k it and let whatever happens happen?

BorneTobyWilde

I believe it, it all adds up, just yesterday I saw a complete hack job done in a housing estate, every tree in the place was cut back, 100% of the budding twigs removed, all that is left is the truck and the stems of large branches.

Surely that is not the way to prune a tree into shape

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198426#Comment_120198426

Did you read the article or the posts preceding yours comprehensively?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198701#Comment_120198701

May well be for that type of tree, I'd guess it is a Lime sub species and like limes very susceptible to cankers.

I would say that the tree will rebound quickly, hard prunings are like hard times, they can drive success.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197788#Comment_120197788

You're obviously unfamiliar with the byroads & backroads of Ireland if you're using that transcontinental high speed motorway system as a comparable. Take yourself off the motorways in to rural Ireland and you'll see the difference.

StevenToast

I have planted and rejuvenated nearly 1km of hedgerow in the last few years and have signed up to plant approx 250m of more hedgerow in the next year or so....

Great for wildlife....

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198688#Comment_120198688

The landscpe in Ireland that we see today has been completely shaped by us and our ancestors over 8000 years. This includes the hedgerows which are built, managed and reshaped by man and will continue to be. The countryside is a place where people live and work, ir is not a wildlife theme park. Trees like Whitethorn (introduced by English planters) and Sycamore (introduced by the Normans) used in hedgerows are non native. Laurels and Grisilinia are non native and commonly used for hedging, you will find plenty birds nesting in them. In fact you know the birds are using them over time ivy and briars will start coming up through them from bird droppings.

You can look at the old ordnance survey maps are see the difference over time as small subsistence tenant farmer holdings are cleared into larger farms, with Catholic emancipation and land reform acts. Hedgerows have been reshaped since the 19th century. Should we really have a countryside with small lime washed cottages where tenants doff their caps to their betters as they pass by on horseback? The landscape will keep changing, always has, always will.

osarusan

deleted

Seth Brundle

I'm quite aware of how our landscape has been shaped over time. However, our landscapes history has nothing to do with whether or not we should continue allowing large amounts of what is left to be removed.

Your reference to larger farms emerging from smaller farms similarly are not beneficial to wildlife and this is well documented.

As for your nonsense about cap donning and cottages, again, irrelevant to the discussion.

prunudo

3000km equates to 115km per county. That would require 115 farmers in each county to remove 1km of hedgerow. And this is being reported as a yearly figure, calling bs on this.

Not denying some hedgerow is being removed but I think if there was the volume disappearing as reported we would see more evidence.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120199796#Comment_120199796

I am very familiar with them, I live both there and Dublin, and being a keen cyclist how dangerous they are. The major change I have observed in my area of the countryside has been the spread of coniferous forest and wind turbines and improved drainage where ditches and hedgerows are still needed. In order to dampen the noise from wind turbines I've had to plant Laurels around the property (fast growing and evergreen). Depending on wind conditions turbines start to moan like banshees as they get older due to parts wear.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198099#Comment_120198099

If you look at how mauch agricultural land changes hands each year, and it's minuscule, I'd say someone's lying or exagerating massively.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/land-ownership-not-a-top-priority-for-new-generation-of-farmers/

cnocbui

If you want a real story, just visit the solar panel frenzy forum, where more than a few people call for or have removed trees to up their daily PV bragging ability. I've seen some complain of overshadow from council trees which they want removed.

Removing carbon fixing trees because you are worried about CO2? I don't think they give a toss about CO2, to be honest.

It wouldn't surprise me if the concerted push for more solar panels in this country leads to significant vegetation loss.

SEPT 23 1989

It’s just a spring clean for the May Queen

tabby aspreme

What other countries have a hedgerows similar to Ireland, apart from bits of UK

SuperBowserWorld

The hedgerows are the bits of nature left over from lots and lots of small farms. And ... larger farms and development = less hedgerow.

Since we as a country are not compensating for this nature loss, we have less and less space for nature and the spaces we do have are all disconnected.

So, for me, loss of hedgerow is just part of the problem. The problem could be solved by planting lots of native woods ands forests. And encouraging people to plant native trees and hedges in their gardens instead of plants that don't support wildlife. And less lawns.

I can't see how this is a problem.

We have the space. It seems low priority for the FFG government who never think long term for a country they pretend to be the "saviours" of. The Greens, I don't know ... they always present things as problems. I would say most people in Ireland want more native woods and forests. Its something to be treasured and celebrated.

We could waste billions on PPE at the drop of a hat for very low quality single use plastic.

I think the problem is poor leadership and vision.

Car99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120200313#Comment_120200313

Is there a breakdown of where the 3000km of hedgerow is being lost , I wouldn't thing agri is the only sector that removes hedgerows, civil, "green energy" projects , property development there always something looking for more space in the pursuit of progress for mankind . Eventually humans will wipe themselves from the planet and it will return to its natural state eventually.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120200274#Comment_120200274

The reality is that people want ever cheaper food, there is a lot of talk about organic products etc but reality is different and the upcoming generation are much worse than what's gone before despite the talk, never mind sustainable, how about paying the cost of production even, if even green voters ate organic it would be a game changer. They won't though.

The Greens want rapid aggressive population growth, they want sustainable building, yet they do not want vast Sitka spruce plantations, despite the first depending on that, nevermind the environmental impact of doubling the State population.

People want sustainable food and food security but the best land in the world is mostly in Europe, it's being wound down, while most of Africa and Asia can only produce with incredible amounts of fertilizer and sprays on their poor soil.

And on and on. Let's not even look at things like beef age being reduced to 23 months, that's going to force beef in to vast corporate feed lots, that's great if you are a green, white collar office job, its going to see lot of land in the east turned in to single fields, it's going to remove any environmental sustainability, its going to be hyper intensive, or forget about the Greens letting horticulture die off in Ireland and on and on.

People want everything nice and have no problem holding completely contradictory views, as long as they think it is nice and especially when it benefits their pocket and sense of well-being, birds, people etc can go rot after that.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198515#Comment_120198515

Why would farmers and rural Ireland listen to the Greens? They despise them.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120200384#Comment_120200384

Valid points made.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198701#Comment_120198701

It’s called pollarding and that looks like a decent job.

eire23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120200317#Comment_120200317

There is 20 year old turbines beside me and they sound the same as the day they went up so don't be worrying about that.

chopperbyrne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198393#Comment_120198393

That small area on the outskirts of the city centre you've zoomed in on is next to large areas of greenery.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120205483#Comment_120205483

I was zoomed much farther out than the original image claiming look how green everything is:

Feel free to compare at 1:1. Not a concrete neighborhood to find myself in.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197829#Comment_120197829

on the sides of roads is where most people see hedgerow being removed, and that's very visible and as you mention, usually done for construction.

but unless you get into the fields off the roads, you won't see hedgerows being grubbed out to join up fields to make them larger. i suspect the majority of hedgerows being lost are ones not running alongside roads.