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Six Nations 2023 General Discussion



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭Augme

    Scotland were(are) a fairly poor team. Always have been. They sre like a slightly less awful version of Italy. Teams with no rugby intelligence will never achieve anything, they'll pick up the odd big win and live off that for awhile but that's about it. Finn Russell is more of a help than a hindrance and doesn't have the skills of a top class international outfalf.

    He's great to watch though.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude

    I feel a bit durty saying this as an Irish rugby fan, but I believe we are actually deservedly are world number 1.

    I look at our WC side of the draw and for the first time I'm not looking at other teams and feel like they don't want to meet us.

    Sunday showed who we are and me being disappointed not getting a bonus point shows how good this team is.

    I'm not an optimist.

  • Registered Users Posts: 35 truthseekerxz

    Considering they are likely to finish 3rd you must think the Six Nations is a “fairly poor” competition this year too.

    Dunno. I see steady improvement in Scotland and I wouldn’t call them poor. Wouldn’t even be surprised to see them throw a spanner in the works and pump SA in the WC. The interesting thing for me is how they appeared to give up on some level at half time. I think I heard someone on a podcast during the week say that Townsend said they were very dispirited in the dressing room at 40mins when there was still only a point in it.

    We are a serious team.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭Augme

    Well, yes, I do think it's a very poor level of competition. Wales and England are ar their worst level is a very long time. Ital have bridged a gap at least but still very far of being a genuine threat. Scotland have benefited from England and Wales demise. More chance of me pumping jennifer lawernce then scotland pumping SA.

    Scotland being poor doesn't take away from were ireland are at. Us and France are the only genuine WC contenders from the 6 nations.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,371 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl

    No one is expecting Scotland to "pump" SA, but they are obviously also clearly a good side. They made a good game of it against the no1 and no2 teams in the world.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭Augme

    They're average. Poor is probably harsh while saying clearly good is going in the opposite direction. Let's just say they won't be winning a 6 nations any time soon.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,371 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl

    They won't be winning a 6N anytime soon in no small part because the no1 and no2 team in the world are in the 6N...

    I said clearly a good side, not very good. They lost by a point to Aus and were decently competitive against the ABs in Nov as well.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭Augme

    If they were in the tri nations they wouldn't be winning that any time soon either. They gulf in class is clear. They won't have any chance at competing for the WC. They've improved but the demise of England and Wale has contributed to their overstated ability.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,371 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl

    Having the third best team in the 6N not be in a position to win the WC does not make it a "poor level of competition" though. I appreciate the WR rankings are far from perfect, but having the top 4 6N teams at 1/2/5/6 is probably the best average ranking we've ever had.

    There is a certain fallacy in saying that just because France and Ireland are so good that they are winning the games well that means its a poor level of competition. By that metric the Rugby Championship is often a terrible level of competition.

  • Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey

    While I don't disagree with this, there have been times when Wales, English and French fans probably viewed us as 'poor' or at best 'average'. Enjoy this for as long as it lasts.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,976 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right

    Scotland (fully fit) are good enough to pull off an upset in their group at the RWC. More likely against SA than Ireland.

    As average as Wales and England are, they have a much easier route to the semis than Ireland or France. It's not inconceivable that the top 3 sides in the world could be gone before the semifinals.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭ersatz

    Good side yes, but they have a long way to go to be considered in the top 3 or 4 in the world. I can see Australia improving a lot from Nov, same with the ABs. Will Scotland be a lot better come the world cup? I don't think so, they played close to their limit during the first half against us and scored once.

  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,038 ✭✭✭fitz

    Was only saying to a friend yesterday that I reckon Scotland are likely to try to target the SA game in the pool, rather than us, after the weekend. Would be a upset, for sure, but it'd good to see SA's brand of rugby not get out of the pool.

    The draw is an absolute joke, but by jaysus, how much sweeter would it be to win a World Cup having come through our side of it. No caveats or asterisks beside that'd be 100% earned.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭All_in_Flynn

    Ye I think on current form, Scotland will target SA who since the last world cup have failed to impress me anytime I've seen them play. We beat them in the Autumn in a game in which they really targeted and where we had a number of front-liners who were in preseason mode. You match them physically and they don't have a whole lot else in my opinion.

    Do we want NZ or France in the quarters all things going well?

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,837 ✭✭✭Former Former Former

    Scotland will target SA 

    Scotland vs SA and Scotland vs Ireland are four weeks apart, there's no reason not to target both equally.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof

    Is it mad to think that, at the moment, we’d nearly prefer NZ?

  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney

    SA are still incredibly hard to beat. Ireland and France at home had to throw absolutely everything at them to scrape a win. We do have a very good record against them overall but they are every bit the world cup team that Ireland are not

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,200 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets

    We match up better against NZ than France. France always have the ability to play a power game, with which they could smother us. NZ don't have that at the moment. Plus I'd say we'd be slightly in their heads, given the sequence of games over the last few years.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    We need to win all our games to win the RWC. Whoever is up next, we go out and beat them. No point thinking about who we'd rather in a quarter final, just win and keep winning until everyone is beaten.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof

    We need to win all our games to win the RWC.

    That's the most straightforward route, but SA didn't last time. (And I always think of France in 2011, who went extremely close having lost twice in the group stages).

    We know this team seems very mentally resilient, and extremely good at dealing with adversity. I don't want to see it happen, but it'd be interesting to see how they respond to a group-stage defeat.

    Post edited by Mike on

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Not all losses would be equal. A loss to SA would be one thing, any other pool team and I think it would be a big enough set back.

    We lost the opening test in New Zealand and went onto win the series. We lost in round 2 last six nations to France and then beat Italy 57 - 6, England away 32 - 15 and Scotland home 26 - 5. On the basis of the last two years I'd say that makes us pretty resilient to losses and well capable of maintaining momentum despite them.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof

    Yep, and even that NZ loss looks like an outlier now, particularly with regards the scoreline / margin of of victory. (I didn't feel at the time it was reflective of the performance).

    Post edited by Mike on

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    The documentary of the series suggests the players felt the same about the first game. The All Blacks got the right bounces of the ball but we played some of the better rugby for much of the game.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof

    Iirc, there was literally 2-3 bounces that didn’t go our way that had a material effect.

    Post edited by Mike on

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,396 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub

    Agree - NZ had a ~15 minute purple patch starting with the intercept try and put up 20+ points but outside of that Ireland were the better team in the 1st test.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭A2LUE42

    And that is what could happen in the WC. There are a small number of teams, Ireland included, who could score 20+ points in a few minutes. Enough to swing a result in their favour. But an injury at the wrong time, a yellow card or a red card or just a few lucky/unlucky bounces, in the knockout stages, you are gone. I am hoping Ireland comes out on the right side, but based on previous World cups, the dread is that we knock out the serious competition and then lose and leave England, Australia, Argentina or Wales with a one-off knockout game to win it all against a team seriously depleted from the previous games.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,008 ✭✭✭OldRio

    I fancy Australia for the above reasons. England could also be a good bet. The odds might even be better for them if they play badly on Saturdah

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n

    I don’t think there is any nearly about that. On current form and with France being at home. I’d take NZ for definite.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE

    Ben Healy named on the bench for Scotland this weekend.

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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,396 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub

    Australia are definitely dark horses - They have had an appalling run with injuries in the squad over the last 12 months and they have a fairly soft run to S/F stage.

    If they get a decent few of those long-term injuries back , they could be a real contender.

    Will be interesting to see how they go over the summer in the Tri-Nations.