Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150361#Comment_122150361

The electorate presumably…

Milominderbender

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150444#Comment_122150444

From the link.

You can enter Ireland and stay here for up to 3 months (6 months if you are looking for a job) without restriction. If you plan to stay more than 3 months, you must either:

• Be working (either employed or self-employed)
• Have enough money and sickness insurance to support yourself and your family
• Be enrolled as a student or vocational trainee or
• Be a family member of an EEA or Swiss citizen in one of the previous categories.

Josef Puska never worked in Ireland. He should have been deported years ago before he claimed disability and was some how physically well enough to murder Aisling Murphy.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150518#Comment_122150518

He did work in Ireland.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150268#Comment_122150268

Oh I see, I don't know how fragile society is. I grew up in the North when bombings and attacks were still very much a thing — and my area was a militarised zone with checkpoints and still watched over by British military bases and helicopters. I can remember the night, even though I was a child, the pub near us was stormed by two Loyalist gunmen who only failed to pull off an absolute massacre because the pub had a fake front door the gunmen tried to kicked open— which alerted people to the danger and they took cover from shots fired in through the window. Parents of my friends were in the pub that night, who would otherwise be long dead now.

I am aware of how fragile society is, having grown up in a fragile society myself. Despite that, I still recognise a lot of the privilege I enjoyed versus people who grew up in truly disintegrated and impoverished societies and far worse violence.

What is it you want to know about my views on those refugees being evicted?

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150518#Comment_122150518

How hard could it be to find out who authorised his disability payment application, and demand answers from that person as to why his application was approved?

Is there any internal audit function in the department of social protection?

tom23

for how long? why oh why would you defend this monster? have you no cut of point or threshold?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150518#Comment_122150518

Should have read both links totally.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150534#Comment_122150534

So because he murdered someone we just make up othe lies about him and accept them as fact? Bizarre attitude tbh.

People can't go around making false accusations that the State or department officials could/should have deported Puskas and imply they hold some responsibility for Aisling Murphy murder becusse they didn't. Puskas was legally entitled to stay in Ireland and ireland werent entitled to remoce him, that's a fact. I don't know why people cant just accept that.

tom23

who’s making up lies? who? fact is he came here and worked for a very small period of time. Supposedly got a ‘bad back’ And ended up with four bedroom house. Cop on and take your head out of the sand and stop defending the perceived injustices of the world. He we gaming the system… and if there was proper review of his claim like the 500,000 reviews of social welfare because of the boyfriends statement in court he might not been riding a bike around looking to kill.

But hey you enjoy telling people you proved someone wrong on the internet. This is why the country is a mess and we get the piss taking out of it.

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150525#Comment_122150525

do you think it’s fair to evict settled refugees who have been here 5 year’s for International Protection Applicant’s?

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150361#Comment_122150361

I don't think our child abuse figures are much higher than comparable countries. Also, most developing countries don't keep accurate records or investigate these crimes like we do so comparisons are very difficult in any case.

We already discriminate against most countries outside the EU with our visa requirements. You'll find every country on Earth discriminates in this way as some passports (Nigeria and Somalia for example) only allow visa free travel to a handful of countries whereas an Irish passport allows access to hundreds of countries.

Hard to believe that you are unaware of all this or once again just choosing to ignore inconvenient truths.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150616#Comment_122150616

No, our immigration policy isn't based on discrimination. UK and EU citizens can move here, visa free, other nations cannot. Our policies are not based on discriminating on religion or cultural differences.

Lotus Flower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150530#Comment_122150530

Yeah I’m really confused by the claim of Ireland’s “atrocious record of abusing our own children”. Why does this country attract so many migrants looking for a safe haven if Ireland has such an atrocious reputation for being abusers

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150604#Comment_122150604

Where's the breakdown on the demographics of the offenders?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150518#Comment_122150518

I agree with you on removing Puskas and his family, but he did work here, initially at least.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150792#Comment_122150792

Well, considering Ireland is over 80% white irish, what do you think?

Lotus Flower

Where can we see this breakdown?

slay55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148322#Comment_122148322

from the radio this morning , the number was minimum of 1,800 tents

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149317#Comment_122149317

Good to see peaceful protest and community spirit in action!

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150435#Comment_122150435

A counter point would be that probably 99% of men from those communities are not involved in serious criminality. There might have been perhaps 100 British Asian men or less convicted of child grooming offences.

Should we judge the Irish population based on the activities of Dublin's criminal / drugs gangs?

dabbler2004

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150875#Comment_122150875

A counter point to that is how would you know how many are or are not involved in serious criminality? There are a large number of migrants coming here without documentation. We don't know who they are or what they've done or in a lot of cases what country they are actually from.

klose

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2024/0517/1449844-clonmel-modular/

Not really the way to go about it IMO

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150361#Comment_122150361

Nope, but nobody should be allowed the freedom to wander any country when claiming asylum until such time as their background is thoroughly vetted. Yes our asylum processing times are ludicrously slow, but that is no excuse to allow unvetted people roam the streets. There is a large security issue bubbling under the surface in our current crisis.

The government needs to do many things on our IPA crisis. Two of which are:

1. Build detention centres large enough to house IPAs while their applications are processed. Unprocessed IPAs should not be allowed mingle with the general public. Main reason being security, until a person's background is established, the public should not be exposed to any potential risk.
2. Speed up the IPA processing system. Hopefully point 1 would deter economic migrants destroying their documentation en route. That would leave us with the more genuine cases, who once their background and veracity of IPA claim is verified, can be safely allowed into the public.

Also, whoever legislated to allow IPAs to work after 6 months while waiting for their IPA claim to be processed should have their head examined.

A lot of this issue really boils down to our addiction to cheap capitalism in the West. We've a long journey to go on fixing that one. Meanwhile some practical solutions and deterrents to our IPA crisis would be helpful.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150923#Comment_122150923

How will faster processing times help if we will not deport significant numbers? Realistically that will not change.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150923#Comment_122150923

I agree to a certain extent, I don't believe we should have hundreds of people in this country living in tents, where No one knows where they are.

IPAs are not prisoners however and cannot be detained indefinitely without trial. Article 40.4.1 of the constitution, ° No citizen shall be deprived of his personal liberty save in accordance with law.'

And the Supreme Court deemed it unconstitutional to prohibit asylum seekers from work, NVH V Min. for Justice.

They really need to speed up the claims process

almostover

Also, we should definitely discriminate when it comes to processing IPA claims. That means rejecting IPA claims for people with a violent criminal background. It may also mean rejecting applications from nations where the prevailing culture is anathema to our own. We have a liberal and republican constitution in our country and we should take reasonable steps to safeguard it. Take for example same sex marriage and the right to terminate a pregnancy. Both of which are now rights enshrined in our constitution by the democratic will of the people. There are certainly cultures in the world who would find both of those rights to be complete anathema to them. Why risk our own progress and values for those of others, especially when such values are clearly dear to us. We need to get out of idealistic thinking and get into realistic thinking i.e. the cultures of some tribes / nations / religions are diametrically opposed to ours. And that limiting immigration from these diametrically opposed cultures may be a good idea.

Idealism has taken hold in a big way in our government. Nothing wrong with ideals but they must be applied pragmatically with respect paid to the reality of the situation. We had two idealistic referenda only in the near past that was pushed by government, both of which were soundly rejected by a realist electorate. We're seeing the same happen again in communities all over Ireland. An idealistic government believing that its possible to double the population of rural communities with IPAs and that integration will take care of itself. Again and again this is being resisted by realistic communities who rightly ask questions like, has our personal security been considered here? Our access to public services? Our access to hosuing in our local community? We've a rocky road ahead unless the government has an epiphany .

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150836#Comment_122150836

What I think is that there's a very high representation of foreign nationals in Irish prisons(15% of prisoners come from a foreign national background), will we get breakdown of offences from the figures on cases of sexual violence/abuse from the non-nationals population..?

We all see the high level cases, Pushka, Yousef Palani, Riad Bouchaker… All we'll see when an IPA/Migrant is involved will be "A man was arrested today…"

So you can see that mothers of young children near the proposed migrant encampment at Thornton Hall are very worried.

Thankfully these locals had some good luck today when they blocked a convoy of modular homes from their village:

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2024/05/17/protesters-preventing-delivery-of-modular-homes-to-a-site-in-co-westmeath/

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150956#Comment_122150956

There's that element to it too. For the IPA process to work, one potential outcome must be that an IPA claim can be considered invalid and the person deported. The system can't work without that.

It's like housing. For a housing system to work, evictions must be possible. In cases such as non-payment of rent / mortgage, damaged caused to property, anti social behavior or crime in a property.

Same with security. To have public security we must punish and deter crime.

We need to wake up a bit that way. Systems only work when non conformance to the system is penalised. It can't work otherwise. What we're doing right now with the IPA process is like playing a game of soccer without any referee. We're trusting the players to abide by the rules without any enforcement. It won't end well unless we change.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151007#Comment_122151007

How is that a very high representation? 20% of people in Ireland are foreign born.

almostover

I agree, IPAs are not prisoners. But re-read your quote from our constitution 'save in accordance with law'. What laws should we have in place to protect the general population from unvetted immigrants? What is the lesser of two evils here? Detaining IPAs until their background and veracity of IPA claim can be established? Or leaving IPAs who are unvetted out into the public. Also, I didn't specify anything about indefinite detention. It should be of definite duration by way of a speedy IPA processing system. That would go a long way to deterring anyone from destroying their documents in transit.

As for the supreme court decision, that was ill advised. I can't think of a single country I can travel to right now where I could work legally without having my background checked first. I work with a large multinational and travel a bit for work and when outside of the EU I can't even enter a country without a Visa and background check being done first.