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Help To Buy - Does revenue check Vat was paid in everything(self build)

Comments

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    I have not come across this scheme for self-builders?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Yeah it’s absolve for self builds, 30k tax return essentially if you meet the conditions - that’s the republic not NI



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,134 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Sorry if it’s not clear - offering to not charge VAT , saves me money for sure and them also I assume.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭eusap


    So you want to defraud the state of tax money whilst also taking a tax rebate? See the issue here?


    You will need evidence for a mortgage etc.... and they will look for official quotes and invoices and proof the invoices were paid, so it may not be so easy to save money



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Yeah, I am wondering what, if any, checks and balances are in place for the help to buy.

    Its a little more complex than defrauding the state also - My uncle is a blocklayer and is block laying the house as a gift, how do I manage instances like that.

    Also, i'm being defrauded by the state on a daily basis - id like the thread not to go that way though as in the example above I have to be sure I am doing the right thing from the outset. Id also like to actually be able to afford to build my house by any means necessary.

    Re the mortgage, would the engineer not be signing off on value of works completed? Did not expect the bank to look for receipts at each stage of drawdown.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,134 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    VAT will have to be paid on materials.

    your thread title makes no sense, and the rest of it is fraud



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Can you point to anything in that documentation linked that says same ? How is it checked? Do I need to create spreadsheets and file recipts for everything? Screws, light bulbs , what about things I own already?

    so we’ve established it would be fraudulent to not pay VAT on goods - what about services like in my example above ?

    I’ll update the title.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,134 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    if you pay for a service, you must pay vat on that service.

    if you get the service for free, you dont need to.

    anyone offering their services for cash, vat free, is committing fraud.

    how do you intend on purchasing materials without paying vat ?? someone has to cover the vat costs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Full disclosure I’ve been pricing things, some lads send back a quote with VAT , then call shortly and offer Vat off for cash. Obviously on any larger parts of a house the savings can be significant as you could imagine, hence the question.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭BronsonTB


    This does happen but it is NOT something you should be openly discussing on an open forum.

    Sligo Metalhead



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭eusap


    If you were smart for certain items on the build you could apply the 2/3 rules, if the tradesperson buys the materials and if the value of the material is less than 2/3 of the total cost the tradesperson can charge you 13.5 on the total, saving 10%.

    In Tax theory if your uncle gifts you Labour he should still pay the VAT on the true value, if he gives you a 90% discount he does not


    The bank will look for proof the money was spent! and that you didn't just buy everything on credit and spend the money elsewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,183 ✭✭✭screamer


    Lads offering vat off for cash won’t give you a detailed receipt either, so good luck if you need to return anything or should anything go wrong. The vat back scheme is intended to refund a portion of the cost of the vat of building a home, it’s not an extra over on top of some dodgy supplier not charging VAT. Your uncle doing the block laying is a gift and should be declared and taxed as such, if you want the truth of it. Remember scammers taking off vat are undercutting others who are trying to run their businesses legitimately paying tax etc, and you’re helping them to do that…… you mightn’t like to know that, but it is what it is.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,134 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    is it just services they are offereing?

    any trade who provides a service and is providing materials as part of this service can charge VAT at 13.5% (provided the cost of the materials is 66% max of the total). If that trade then calls you and offers this same service for cash, without vat, but you have to purchase the materials... you will pay 23% vat.

    if they are offering the service plus materials for cash... then the obvious drawback is

    1. theres no comeback if the service or product turns out to be defective
    2. there will obviously be no contract between you
    3. there will be no receipt


    plus, if you are building bby mortgage, as youve hinted at, the you will need to be cleared for the total mortgage that it will cost you, including VAT. You cannot go to a mortgage provider and say you can build the house for X figure because your not paying vat etc. They will say, no, in our experience you will need Y to build this house an dthats all they will clear you for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Deub


    From the OP’s posts, it seems to be a large scale practice if he received several offers.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Mod Note: I know it is not the intention of the OP to discuss ways around paying VAT but this thread is starting to sail a little close to the wind. We obey the law on this forum, so no (further) discussion about VAT evasion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    That is very valid re catching others out who are abiding by the law - I should have, but I never thought of it like that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    So far just materials delivered.

    Mortgage is in place and costed at this point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Re the banks: Genuinely interested on what the bank looks for, or more so the format - we are going direct labor so id like to have that right from day 1.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,134 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    the banks rely on 'stage payment certificates' from a professional that you will have to employ to carry out inspections on the build in order to provide certification on completion

    these 'stage payment certs' will have to show that the value of fixed work on site is equal to the value of monies drawn down at that point in time.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 472 ✭✭SodiumCooled


    Not to in anyway validate the route the poster is being given the opportunity to go down but all the bank look for to drawdown on my mortgage is the 'stage payment certificates' highlighted by syd, the bank nor anyone else has asked for any actual evidence (invoices, receipts or quotes) for work done or materials.

    As someone doing a lot of pricing around for materials I have not had ay materials provider offer a cash discount so I find it quite unusual.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    No Income Tax, no VAT, no money back, no Guarantee - Delboy Trotter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,873 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Not charging vat to you doesn't save them money. Vat is charged by the builder, and then paid to revenue.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,134 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    yeah thats what im not getting here.. the VAT must be paid by someone down the line, unless the OP is purchasing stolen / second hand goods



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,875 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    How would that only apply to buying a house? Revenue ate hardly saying it’s ok to commit tax fraud if your self building.

    The link you provided is pretty clear.

    What is a qualifying property?

    To qualify for HTB, the property that you purchase or self-build must be:


    • your home

    • newly built with the construction subject to Value Added Tax (VAT) in Ireland.

    How are you being defrauded by the state? Sounds made up tbh.

    If you want to do the right thing, that would include not being being an accessory to fraud.

    The sub-contractors may want to know you’re applying to revenue. As revenue may have tax requirements for them. They will also need a solicitor to verify certain aspects of application.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,875 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    It doesn’t “save” them money, because they are receiving money, not spending.

    If they didn’t make money by doing it, they wouldn’t do it. It should be hard to figure out where the profit is. It’s pretty obvious.

    No VAT on sales and services that never existed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 472 ✭✭SodiumCooled


    I guess they will keep the cash off the books so while the not charging VAT doesn't save them not declaring the money received does save them on tax etc. It doesn't really make sense though for a business selling products as there is a paper trail, stock records etc so hard to see how they expect to get away with it in the long term. All sounds a bit dodgy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,873 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    I was assuming the poster was still using the help to buy scheme, and trying to get cash prices for the work. Obviously you can't do both.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123




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