What to do next 😣

psych77

We have been looking for a family home for ages. One came up in the estate we like before Christmas and is in walk in condition but needs money spent to suit a family, more bedrooms needed, attic conversion Etc. It is being advertised as 4 bed when it’s in fact 3. (Two rooms configured to one when vendor bought from builder). Nobody bid before Christmas so we put on a lower offer 50k below asking. Asking was high given the false advertising and need for further work. None of our offers were entertained. After Christmas we upped to 25k below asking. All we got each time was an email from the EA saying the offer is too low, can you go higher. Suddenly another bidder enters the ring and all week there has been a war between the two of us. Others interested in viewing this week decided not to when they heard where the price was at. We eventually shook off the other bidder at 6k above asking. We waited all weekend for a decision from the vendor to hear they won’t accept. They now feel given the scarcity in the area that they can get more money. The EA couldn’t give any info as to how much they were expecting but it all sounds very strange to me. She indicated before Christmas that they may take less than asking now we are 6k above. Friends in the estate feel it’s priced too high as it is. What to do next. 😫. We do actually really like the house. Nothing we like more has come up in the last few months. I’ve checked with lots of EA and nothing coming either. I strongly feel the house isn’t worth more. What to do …

RichardAnd

All that you can do is make the offer that you feel is best and leave it at that. It may be worth telling the agent that you will be looking elsewhere whilst the vendor considers the offer. If there are no other genuine offers, they will be back to you.

ec18

The only thing you can do is either put a time limit on the offer or see if you want to pay what the vendor wants. That's it really

pc7

Also easier said but use the head not the heart, plot it down on paper the pros/cons, what needs to be done in the house to make it livable and go with a price you feel its worth. Don't go over that value you feel its worth, be prepared to walk from it (it may come back to you). Best of luck its not easy.

psych77

Thanks. The problem is the EA said she has no idea even what they want. She felt my offer was strong and fair. It seems very disrespectful to continuously say no without any effort at negotiation.

pc7

Then leave offer as is and say you will be pulling it in a weeks time, keep looking round.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149575#Comment_120149575

The agent works for the seller to get the best price. It sounds like your offers were insulting and you have now upped your original offer by €56k which makes you sound like the unreasonable one that as a seller people would want to avoid

Browney7

If you're unhappy walk away. That's the only card you can play and it seems like you want the house so pay the freight or move on really are your two choices.

Evd-Burner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149739#Comment_120149739

Unreasonable how exactly?

SwimClub

It sounds like you may have communicated that you aren't entirely happy with the house and feel it is overpriced to the EA, and your initial bid indicates you feel it is way overpriced, that puts you in the high risk of pulling out category, you might be expected to resent paying so much more or have regrets after the bidding process.

A buyer can delay a sale a long time and pull out and they may be worried about that scenario. There's more to negotiating than just bidding the best price, in the US people even write letters to the vendors on why they loved the house etc. to get them to sell to them, even without having the best bid. Not saying you should do that here but there is trust needed both sides and more to it than just having the best bid. Paying 6k more then pulling out 5 months down the line costs the owner a lot more than 6k.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058280979/what-to-do-next

You played your cards, leave it on the table and walk away.

You need to understand that you don't get attached emotionally of a house you see. You will lose every bid you put out there if you get so emotional.

You felt it was over priced by 50k then you played right in their hands by upping it by 56k! Even so I am sure you were right about being overpriced as you need to spend more money on it.

How do you even know you are bidding against someone else. Don't forget the seller has much to lose as well by you walking off from his house, he lost a solid bidder.

psych77

To make it worse BOI just contacted to say fixed rates rising by 0.75 if no drawdown by 21feb.

psych77

I’m wondering the same. There was no interest in the house and nobody bidding against us and no direction as to what the seller wanted so we were very much in the dark. Took our lead from other house sales in the area.

SAMTALK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150087#Comment_120150087

To be honest if you felt it was over priced before you will always feel you overpaid

EA cannot know for sure if anything will be coming up soon . People make decisions to sell for various reasons that the EA wont know about until they are contacted

there was nothing in my area for a long time and in the space of 2 days 2 houses have just gone up

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150087#Comment_120150087

it may be the time of year. If the other bidders are in fact real but were relying on exemptions from the restrictions on deposit or income multiples, sometimes the banks exhaust their quota of exemptions for the year but these reset on January 1st.

Or maybe people just aren't interested in looking at houses in the lead-up to Christmas?

So it may well be that the EA was advising the seller to hold off until the new year to see if more buyers entered the fray, which then happened?

As noted above, there isn't much else you can do except set your own ceiling, communicate that to the vendor and see what happens.

Liamario

They might have an inkling that you are desperate for the house. Don't spend more than what you think the house is worth. Your heart makes you do silly things and ignores all logic.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150040#Comment_120150040

Great idea to write a letter about how much you love the house. When we were buying we wrote a Shakespearean style sonnet about how lovely the was and sent it to the sellers. "Thy fascias are as fair as ..."

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120156274#Comment_120156274

An article about an article - nice!

covidcustomer

A couple of years ago I was dealing with a similar situation, except that we offered the asking price, we were messed around by the vendor and we walked away because while we "liked" the house and certain elements of it, there were issues with it and work to be done so we walked away. Out of curiosity I checked it on the PPR, vendor held out for 10 months and got 100k over what was a hefty asking price.....

The Spider

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120156991#Comment_120156991

Nice, not a bad payday for a 10 month wait

Calahonda52

from opening post

I strongly feel the house isn’t worth more

walk

covidcustomer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120157016#Comment_120157016

Yep, in this market they were right to do so, although I wonder where they went to live and if that property also increased? (Assuming that they were buying again of course).

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120157067#Comment_120157067

Might be an inheritance or a second home.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120157031#Comment_120157031

I second this. The house that I eventually bought was sold to me for 25k under the asking (town house in Wexford). It needs a bit of work, and I paid the price that the house next door sold for in early 2020. This came after many months of pulling out of sales that went 10-15% over the asking price. Unless it's some sort of dream home, do not let an EA pull you into a bidding war for inflated goods.

realitykeeper

The sellers have done you a service by upping the price. Had you bought the house, even at your original 50K below the initial asking price, you would have been making a terrible mistake. Don`t you realize the government borrowed 200 billion since 2008 for the express purpose of re inflating house prices. Had you bought the house, you would be paying an inflated price and still be on the hook for the 200 billion the country borrowed. If you can afford to buy a house in this country, you really shouldn`t. I would rather emigrate. Also, don`t forget, as consumer inflation rises but house prices fall (as happened in December) you will lose and lose again. In fact, the government is relying on inflation continuing in order to bring down it`s liability.

Back around 2009, the government pulled all kinds of shenanigans to re-bloat house prices just so their precious NAMA could claim it was making a profit. First the government put up all kinds of impediments to prevent banks from repossessing houses because only by keeping houses off the market could they force house prices higher. They also put a false floor under house prices back in 2009 by insuring a traunche of about a thousand houses against negative equity which resulting in buyers entering the market before it had a chance to bottom out naturally.

As I see it, two things are preventing a faster fall in house prices, the first is the multinationals. If they were to get into difficulty, there would be far fewer eligable buyers. A weakening US dollar and precarious global economy would do that and we will see if those conditions are met in 2023.

The second factor that could undercut house prices in this country is persistant CPI inflation which impacts mortgage holders like everyone else. After all, everyone has to eat. And of course there are the higher interest rates, although it should be said the ECB is not really serious about fighting inflation (which is why it will stay high) because the higher interest rates that would require would probably put rapid downward pressure on house prices. But, they are playing with fire, raising interest rates slowly is like stretching an elastic band. It could snap.

It is not surprising that countries like Italy are urging the ECB to go slower with it`s interest rate hikes. Italy has a lot of debt so the cracks in EU cohesion are beginning to appear. We will see more of that as the year progresses.

Final point, if house prices do start to fall and people go into negative equity, they will default which will cause house prices to fall more rapidly.

The government spent 200 billion making house prices high. Given the ECB`s mandate to protect the Euro, it will be difficult for the Irish government to explain away the loss of that 200 billion in home equity prices to the Irish taxpayer when houses crash next time. This time there can be no bailout and the Irish government may well have to pay that negative equity compensation to those who bought the insured tranche of houses back in 2009.

The Spider

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159830#Comment_120159830

H,mmm interesting 🤔 except for the fact that there’s no housing supply, government t doesn’t have to do anything to prevent repossession, the constitution does that, that’s why mortgage rates are so high in Ireland, oh also jingle mail doesn’t exist like the states where you give the banks the keys and that’s the end of it, for the simple the reason they’re two separate things, you owe the bank money but you own the house, obviously the bank can go after thre house but it’s very difficult because of the constitution, especially the family home.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159830#Comment_120159830

Without getting myself into trouble, I'll just add that the state also ensured that there is effectively a never-ending supply demand for what housing exists. In fact, I'd opine that that has been more effective than any amount of financial jiggery-pokery.

psych77

Interesting read Thankyou!

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149992#Comment_120149992

You massively underbid and then came up by a large amount. That makes you appear unreasonable to any seller. What percentages are we talking about on value because that might clarify why you would so much in value but it is different if we are talking about a small percentage but that is doubtful given the amount you are complaining about. In a seller market many properties have an offer price at least 10% below what they really expect.

remember They want to get as much money from you as they possibly can.

submit your final offer on paper & if they don’t accept walk away.

You’d be surprised how fast sellers (people selling anything really) will do a deal if your prepared to leave it.

psych77

Ray, we originally bid 14% lower or so as other people we knew in the estate advised house was overpriced and no other houses had sold at that level except one which had the attic mostly converted. We weren’t sure how to proceed as nobody else was bidding and we could never get any feedback from the EA except that offer is too low, can you go higher so we would sit on it a while when gradually went higher and in January got so fed up where we are living we decided it’s worth the money to us to get space for the kids as we are all stressed in too small a property where we are currently. We bid 325 in the Hope we would get a negotiation going even and it was only then we were asked for proof of funds. 10 mins later I got an email that another bidder had entered the fray and it went from there. We had decided we wanted the house and didn’t want to let it go but 355 was our max and that’s where we are at now. Asking 349k. The other viewers from last week didn’t proceed With viewing when they heard 2 people were bidding and it was at €340 at that stage. I haven’t heard anything now since Monday. It was just left in the air so I’m not sure what we will do next.

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120160690#Comment_120160690

+1

johnboy_85

Was in a relatively similar situation myself.

The house suited all our needs and was in the exact location and area we wanted. It was a messy elongated sale and in the end we had to up fairly substantially our winning bid to get the house. We did get emotionally invested into the house that we hadn't with others as it suited us so well.

I watched friends and family getting sorted while we were stuck in limbo with the house.

Role on being in the house a couple of years and that overpayment and hassle was all worth it a hundred times over. I count my lucky stars every time I call to friends houses who had to Compromise area, house type etc due to money or wanting to get sorted ASAP.

There hasn't been any houses in the area for sale that would have suited us since we nailed our colors to the mast for this house.

Other side of the coin is taking into consideration the housing market, if you loose out on the house to a big bidder or any other scenario. I genuinely sympathise and for some people there are certain houses that are worth pushing the boat out for I believe

psych77

I’m after getting a text from the estate agent now saying they will sell the house for 10k more. Really chancing their arm!!

Browney7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120162471#Comment_120162471

The vendor has something you want. You either walk or pay up.

You need to have a long look at whether it's worth it to you to pay the price sought. Youve said it's a "house in an estate" - what makes this estate so great? The fact it's in an estate would to me suggest this house is nothing special but each to their own. Do other houses ever come up near this one in other estates at prices you'd be willing to pay? What does this house have that others don't? How long are you willing to wait and maintain your current arrangements? Can you afford the price being sought?

eusap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120162471#Comment_120162471

If you feel its overpriced then its overpriced, if you pay it then every time you have to spend money on the house you will start doing the math's and wondering why you paid so much, remember its not monopoly money.

Personally i would call the estate agent and say sorry we are withdrawing our offer as we went sale agreed yesterday on another property. There is no love in house buying and the seller is probably having the same discussions on a house they are buying elsewhere.

If they come back make a lower offer, somewhere in between and put a time limit on it as you are sale agreed on another property

If they dont, wait two week and get a friend to enquire about the house

Rothmans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120164170#Comment_120164170

I would agree with this, except for the part where you state that you've gone sale agreed on another property. By saying you've gone sale agreed elsewhere, you're closing the door on the vendors relenting and coming back to you to accept the offer on the table now.

I bought, 5 years ago now, so it may not be as relevant. But I bid 20k below asking. It was the absolute max my budget could allow. Vendors said come up 10k and the house is yours. I genuinely couldn't so I had to decline and continue my search. A few days later, I got word that they had decided to accept my offer. As the poster I quoted said, they are probably having similar discussions themselves. If you feel it's overpriced, it is overpriced. Walk away.

Continue your house search. If they come back to you, great, if they don't, they don't. You will find a house eventually. However, I have a feeling they will come back to you after you indicate that you are continuing your search. Nobody else is offering them as much as you are. They'd be fools to let you go .

DownByTheGarden

Anyone who bought a house a few years ago and thought they paid over the odds is probably thankful now that they did pay over the odds at the time.

I know some people who always seem to want to pay as little as they can get away with and who have been bidding on houses fopr years. All the while other people paid more trhan them and are sitting in their houses now looking back and thinking that they are glad they upped their bids.

Sometimes you just have to pay whats needed to get what you want over the finish line.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120165402#Comment_120165402

I'm reminded of David McWilliams' advice of "going on strike" for two years to younger people trying to buy a home. We may have seen a slowdown in recent months, but in my opinion, this is merely the market's shedding the artificial inflation caused by the state's reaction to the pestilence. I'd say that by this time next year, prices will either be the same as they are now, or a little higher. I could be wrong, but I don't see how any "crash" will arrive.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120165981#Comment_120165981

If you ask anyone who bought during the last crash they will tell you today that they are glad they did. There was a time when they thought they were the biggest fools ever, but time heals.

ecjjaian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120162471#Comment_120162471

I bought recently, started well below asking like yourself. Ended up improving my bid because we saw nothing else we liked and nothing coming to market.

Based on my exp I would say the following:

1. The week before we closed, another house in the same estate that had an extra bedroom (but needed more work) came up for sale for 30k less than the asking of our house. We thought we'd never see another house that fitted our needs around our price, spring is just around the corner, it's a big selling season.
2. The cost of improving/changing the house you're looking at is higher than you think (unless you work a trade or are very familiar with pricing)
3. We ended up telling the agent that we saw something else that we liked (we hadn't) and their house was still our first choice but if they didn't move on our current offer, we would bid on the other house and be off the market in a couple of weeks. The agent very quickly went from saying below asking was completely unacceptable to saying they could get the sellers to consider our offer. We were sale agreed two days later.

I know it seems like this is the only house you could ever want, but give it 2/3 months and that'll change fast. Also, as interest rates go up, others buyers can't borrow as much either. BOI were the cheapest on the market before this hike so a lot of people are going to be shaken out of the price range by the increase.

psych77

Thanks for the info. I rang an estate agent in the same practice Wednesday to ask to look at another house. He said oh are you not bidding on X house? I said oh we were but I have to move on as they wouldn’t accept our bid. He said they may rue the day! A day later and my agent is back saying they will close for 10k more. Well today I said absolutely not and outlined my reasons clearly. She said she will discuss with the seller. I said ok but we will NOT be improving our offer. I’ll keep ye posted!!!!

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120165989#Comment_120165989

There was an idea after 2008 that renting was superior to buying. I myself believed this. Well, I was wrong. Renting is a mug's game, and I look back on the years when I did rent with a sick stomach. It is, quite literally, dead money.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166139#Comment_120166139

I remember. People were forever smugly pointing out the value they got for their rent and poitning out how sorry they were for "poor craters" who had bought. The shoe is surely on the other foot now.

DFB-D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166124#Comment_120166124

Stick to your offer and keep looking.

Hard to do, but it looks like there may be a downward trend starting and that may result in more properties entering the market.

I hope it all works out for you! I have had similar experiences looking for investment properties, I was asked on a couple of occasions but I would never entertain improving my own bid when over asking to close and just pulled out immediately....if they are that greedy I don't want to deal with them.

One property is back on the market, so hopefully they learn to accept a good offer in the future.

psych77

I stood my ground and they contacted this evening to say they would accept my offer! We are thrilled!!!

FedoraTheAura

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180118#Comment_120180118

Congratulations!! Fair play!

pc7

That's great news

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180118#Comment_120180118

Yuppie

Larbre34

A great lesson to any buyer and, frankly, to any vendor.

Congratulations and well wear.