Homework- yes or no?

Luis7

As a primary school teacher I have grown tired of the stress,drama and time homework brings to the classroom. It causes the kids stress and I'm sure parents too. There is the drama of some not having theirs done, the excuses etc and the time it takes to go over it the following day. A primary school day is already packed to capacity with an overloaded curriculum. To try and squeeze in homework just wastes valuable learning time. My approach to homework has always been different. In my early days I would explain to my class if we got the work done in class and I felt everyone was engaged in their learning then I would simply give no homework. If they decided to mess and misbehave (a common problem for substitute teachers) I would give them more than usual homework. This approach worked well for me. Another approach I had was to give the children tasks- help their parents at home ( loading dishwasher, setting table etc, or reading a story to their parents-any story). This approach was enjoyed by kids and parents alike.

My reason for posting here is to ask parents in 2023 should your children be coming home after a long day at school learning expected to do more work? Research suggests it is of absolutely no benefit to the children. But I would like to hear the thoughts of parents. So a yes or no answer with your reasons why would be great to hear.

Cheers to all that participate

Spear

Moved to a forum that's actually related to the topic instead.

Gatica

Surprised no one has posted :)

I agree it's an added stress in terms of time and completion. If they have other activities after school, then they still have to try to squeeze in time to complete assignments. However, the upside is that I see how my child is doing in school based on the work they're doing at home.

Jasper79

I say no. I have one child in first class and one in junior infants. Myself and wife work full time and most nights it's just a chore for everyone, especially kids who are already tired come the evening.

Pawwed Rig

Yes as I can see what they are doing in real time. The school is a closed box where we get to look in the very odd time. They do not seem to do a huge amount and seem more worried about the church across the road than educating kids. All kinds of studies have shown that where parents are involved in the schooling the outcomes for the child are better.

timetogo1

I've a daughter in Senior Infants. She gets about 10 - 15 mins of homework for Monday - Thursday. So far we haven't found it to be a burden but we've gotten no push back from her. She'll probably push back more as she gets older.

Like Pawwed said, I find it useful to see where she is and I know where she is maths wise and reading wise so we integrate it a bit when we're going out for walks or have some time together. She gets no Irish homework (and my Irish is weak) so I've no clue where she is for that and coincidentally or not, she's told me that Irish is her least favourite subject.

Tiredandcranky

Yes. Homework is useful. It's the only chance for the parent to see how the kid is doing in school. That said, we're lucky, as the amount of homework our kids get is really very small (10 - 15 mins). My eldest will usually do the written stuff in 10 mins, and if we're feeling especially dedicated, we might do the Irish or tables with him. I've heard horror stories from other parents of lines and lines of colouring for j infants and such nonsense.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058280847/homework-yes-or-no

OP if you're concerned about how many hours a week teachers have to teach pupils, how about abolishing the half hour per day of "religious instruction" which is mandatory in 95% of Irish primary schools?

BlueSkyDreams

ChatGPT will erradicate any value in homework very soon.

Kids will need to demo their learning in person, at school.

Yellow_Fern

We need more homework, not less. Kids have too much free time.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404704#Comment_120404704

It is outdated now, due to ChatGPT.

There is little point in it anymore.

Flinty997

Depends what the homework is, and what quality it is. If it's busy work then no point. There's a certain amount of independent learning required in life. Certain amount of practice to stay current in a perishable skill.

Then some of that depends on the quality of what goes on in the classroom. Trying to get feedback and updates from many teachers is like getting blood out of a stone.

I've read the research on homework. I think if it's not making any difference then what is the point. It seemed the classroom instruction was higher quality then exist in other places. Perhaps that's why the homework was redundant.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404716#Comment_120404716

Homework has become redundant because the computer can do it all for you via Chat bots etc.

first you had Google and Wiki etc, but at least kids had to do some form of research to complete homework. which is still a valuable and contemporary skill to learn.

But ChatGPT and their new versions just write the essay/do the math for you. Instantly.

There will need to be a revolution in the way kids are tested and homework wont be part of the answer.

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404709#Comment_120404709

Easy solution. Require it to be hand written. copying it out from a computer screen will impart some learning. Even better, teach through Irish.

BlueSkyDreams

Kids can just copy the text on to paper. They dont need to understand it to copy it.

ChatGPT writes it and they copy it.

ChatGPT can dictate the work in Irish. Again, kids dont need to understand it to copy it.

The answer probably lies in more in class presentations, taking questions from other students/teachers etc, as the kids cant "cheat" then.

So your homework could be preparing your presentation.

The irony is, the content of your presentation will be entirely written by a computer and the kid delivering it may not understand a word of what they are saying.

Flinty997

Just like you can tell when something is written by someone else. You can tell a lot of the time that its written by ChatGPT.

They have tools coming online that can detect chatGPT with apparently a  97% accuracy and a false positive rate of only 1%.

Pawwed Rig

No stress here from homework. It is useful to see how the kids are getting on as the teachers do not make themselves available. Children whose parents help them with homework have much better outcomes according to the national parents council.

If anything I think there should be more homework and more tailored to the individual child.

purplefields

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404721#Comment_120404721

Chat GPT also knows Irish

purplefields

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404742#Comment_120404742

Other tools will work out how to get around the plagiarism detectors.

We are at the start of it all now with ChatGPT entering mainstream. In 5 to 10 years academia will be totally different - for the better maybe.

Although what will happen to the internet, when ChatGPT is referencing other AI generated pages, instead of original content?

Furze99

The normal school day involve a lot of repetition. No need for more repetition again in homework, unless you want to really turn young learners off a subject. So the OP makes a very valid case as to how to proceed.

For parents who view homework as a means to check how their children are getting on - well you don't need homework for that. You can just sit down and ask what they covered that day/ week and explore a few ideas with them. Far more engaging, natural and useful for the young learner (or any learner).

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405499#Comment_120405499

Do you have kids? If I asked my kids that they would just say they don't remember. You also assume a competence in the subjects that may or may not exist. My level of Irish for example. I can understand the homework for the most part when I am reading it and going through it but would struggle to engage in a meaningful way outside of that. Others have issues with Maths, English etc.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405498#Comment_120405498

Those detectors will adjust to suit.

Computers are like people. They have predictable patterns.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405499#Comment_120405499

In my experience schools are disconnecting from parents. Feedback and communication gets worse every year.

Often a child has no context of the bigger picture, they also often give inaccurate feedback to their parents.

Many teachers do not know their students well either.

sekond

I've no major opinion on homework one way or another - I can see the benefits, but also the downsides. I've rarely had trouble to get my kids to complete it, and certainly in the older years of primary it's a good habit to get into for secondary school.

What does drive me crazy - especially because both parents here work full time - is the homework that is essentially "homework for parents" - projects in the younger years of primary, art and craft type things. Our school has got better at not handing them out anymore, but there was a period when one child was smaller that there seemed to be a project every month.

Projects in the older years aren't as much of a problem - 5th class child just completed one on a country of her choice, inputting it all into a presentation on google classroom. My involvement was keeping a vague eye while she was doing her research, pointing her in the direction of slightly more reliable sources, and a small bit of tech support.

I'd be interested to see what ChatGPT turns out in Irish. If it's anything like the nonsense google translate turns out, the Irish teachers of the world won't be too concerned. (And to be honest, I don't see ChatGPT causing much of a problem with primary school homework anyway)

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404727#Comment_120404727

You've solved your own problem. In third level it's becoming increasingly common to have an in depth Q&A session for your work. Otherwise, ChatGPT is still a bit cack at anything remotely complex, it's certainly not quite at the scaremongering replacing everything stage yet.

Let's go to the extreme, of school.

Leaving cycle pupils:

School: 09:00 - 16:00

Expected Study: 2+ Hours

Homework: 2+ Hours

How many of you would accept that level of work after office hours?

Government and health officials complain about kids not doing sport: There's a reason right here.

Repition, in the hours after exposure, does help to lock in that learning but we need to come to some kind of balance. No 16-17 year old should be under that level of pressure.

FFS you go through an entire honours degree never feeling that level of stress again.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405553#Comment_120405553

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405611#Comment_120405611

Yes and all past primary & secondary school age now. The most useful 'homework' that parents can do is to engage in discussion about what has been covered in class, take an interest in what was conveyed and give their own perspective on it. That's where additional learning takes place and ideas are formulated. Maybe that requires a little effort and thought but far better than using homework & text books as some sort of crutch to cover up lack of competence. And dare I suggest that if a parent knows feck all about say algebra, then they should not try and spoof their way. We all have to admit that sooner or later in many ways, our children and other people generally know more about a subject that we do. In that case, maybe try and engage a conversation where your child explains to you.

As for the commentary on a widening gap between schools/ teachers, their student and their parents - that is sad observation on the current education system.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405704#Comment_120405704

All valid points.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405650#Comment_120405650

Not unlike asking people about their CV. You know the spoofers easily enough.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404657#Comment_120404657

Thats just nonsense for the younger kids.

I find that homework, as others have said, give the parent a view into whats being done in the classroom and where their child is at.

It's value is very dependent on the child and indeed home environment but in general it is a good thing particulary in the younger ages where the parent HAS to get involved.

I think its good in general to get kids into the habit of "Work" and scheduling their time as they get older.

It's not the same for everyone mind and I suppose these are where the challenges arise.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405704#Comment_120405704

That's not entirely accurate however.

I see nowadays in secondary schools I am familiar with, there are a hell of a lot of "free" classes or free periods. There's a whole additional year added in some schools (for the past couple of decades) and from my experience a lot of this age group aren't necessarily working a part time job any more to help with income ( as would have been far more prevalent years ago).

As such they don't necessarily need or have to spend 4 hours per day outside of their 9-4 school day studying or doing homework and indeed the resources they have available to them for study and homework far outweight was was there in the past. One could also argue that the exams they are studying for have gotten relatively easier than they have been before.

Again, as with my earlier post, its not the same for everyone and thats where the challanges arise but lets not think they are getting a really raw deal.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405650#Comment_120405650

Yep, in person assesment is the way forward.

ChatGPT will be outdated before the end of the year and the next gen chatbots will jidt fet better and better. And quickly.

Education needs to respond very quickly I would say.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405776#Comment_120405776

Very young kids yes, but once they dicover the internet, its a new ballgame sadly.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406467#Comment_120406467

It's a new ballgame in what way?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406487#Comment_120406487

Because the child doesnt need to learn anything to complete the homework. They just dictate to a Chatbot and mindlessly copy the answer.

Agreed that if parents intercede and help with homework, this is the best way forward. But Im not sure parents can oversee every homework session.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406458#Comment_120406458

I think someone who produces amazing homework but performs badly in class and during in class exams will be pretty obvious. Ultimately what will it achieve for the the student?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406505#Comment_120406505

I dont think you understand what homework actually is at primary level or indeed some facets of secondary level.

"Insert AI Platform Name Here" isn't going to help kids with a lot of the skills and general things that homework teaches kids. Homework isn't all about getting the "right answer" at any age.

Early on, the basic writing and reading skills, as well as maths, languages, social sciences, project work, all through primary school are all very important things for kids to do and while AI platforms have "help" with some of these things as kids get older, so long as the key exams kids do don't involve access to the internet, it's a very silly game for kids to use AI for "homework".

Yes, it is difficult for parents to oversee or even help with homework for older kids however ChatGPT isn't going to "ruin" homework as an activity.

Generally speaking, the internet, used in the right way, is a great help with kids learning and in many cases should and is harnessed to assist with kids learning. I don't see AI as being any different.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406529#Comment_120406529

Plenty of exams are just repeating block text.

I had people in my Bio degree able to ace written exams but struggle in any practical tests and reports

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406589#Comment_120406589

That's an entirely different topic. Academic vs practical application. Its got nothing to do with Homework.

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406613#Comment_120406613

Yep. If my 6 year old was able to use Chatgpt now she'd be well ahead (developmentally) of the other kids who are getting asked to add 8+2

😁

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406613#Comment_120406613

You literally mentioned in class (practical) vs exam situation

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406966#Comment_120406966

Reguitating stuff from memory in an exam vs actually having to problem solve.

For me is different to having cut and past and not remember anything.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406529#Comment_120406529

A good grade on their homework.

Im not saying its the right thing to do, but it is the easy thing to do.

We probably have to limit the scope of homework moving forward. Thats the reality

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407145#Comment_120407145

They won't get a good grade because it will be obvious to everyone its not their work.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407207#Comment_120407207

But they will all be doing it, so nobody will get a good grade. Unless they use a bell curve :)

And we would only know it wasnt their work if they were asked to explain it as part of their assesment.

If they just submit an essay or a maths paper or a science review, nobody would be any the wiser (or at least the teacher couldnt prove it wasnt the students work)

As i say, presentational assessments will have to become the standard. Thats the only way to test understanding, along with in class exams or tests.

Not a bad thing in reality as it will build confidence and presentation skills etc.

But the days of traditional homework are gone as of this year I would say.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407446#Comment_120407446

Human nature is a lot more predictable and identifiable then you think.

If you have students who struggle to get a pass in class but their homework is A+ level. You're going to notice.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407519#Comment_120407519

And do what about it? If they all get As on their homework.

You cant put them all in detention.

Thats the problem. Everyone is doing it.

All I am saying is that homework as we know it will be phased out because any kid will have ready access to a Grade A, regardless of subject or their understanding of same.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407701#Comment_120407701

You seem to think the only purpose of homework is the grade you get for it.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407808#Comment_120407808

You seem to think there is value in getting a Computer to do the homework for you.

timetogo1

I don't understand the chat about chatgpt for homework. The point of homework (when I went to school) was to practice and learn. It counted little to nothing to my final grades. Is it different now?

If I used chatgpt now or copied somebody else's homework all year my final exams would show that result. So great, the people who cheat will get crappy grades, like it's always been.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407817#Comment_120407817

I think you've illustrated that a computer can't understand something for you, if you are determined not to learn it. If thats the kids objective, good luck with that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407849#Comment_120407849

From reading the different research it depends. If you get quality appropriate homework it has value. If you don't it won't. So if you skip low quality inappropriate homework, it makes no difference to your education. So why do it. So why not have ChatGPT do it for you. However if you do get quality appropriate homework it can makes a difference. In which case you lose out by using ChatGPT.

Some peoples objective at school is to skip to the end and leave. Nothing beyond that.

If you consider places that have no homework and do better academically. You'll find there is a difference to their approach in the case room. Its not simple a matter of not doing homework and it making no difference. There are also scenarios where homework improves outcomes. They may also do other things differently.