Patient attacked and killed in Cork hospital

Ten of Swords

An elderly inpatient at Mercy University Hospital Cork was attacked by another patient (in his 30s) at around 5am this morning. He has since died.

The younger man was in an agitated state, no weapon believed to have been used in the attack.

https://m.independent.ie/news/elderly-patient-dies-after-apparent-attack-at-cork-hospital-42305432.html

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41054066.html

Be right back

Awful news to hear. May the poor man rest in peace..

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058280689/patient-attacked-and-killed-in-cork-hospital

Agitated.....

Wonder what the younger chap was in for, was it in A&E or in a ward I wonder

Jesus H Christ.

I actually feel quite disturbed and distressed after reading this. That poor man, and his poor family.

When you have a loved one in hospital you presume they are safe.

You couldn't anticipate waking up on a Sunday morning to a call from the Gardaí that your loved one has been murdered by another patient.

It's beyond horrific.

My condolences to the family of the deceased.

Packrat

My wife was in A/E in CUH last Sunday night. A male patient fitting the age if this guy was going a bit nuts and the staff mentioned him being moved to the Mercy and given "something to calm him down" He had injuries to his head and knuckles...

Horrific way for that poor old man to die. RIP.

Galwayguy35

The staff on duty have questions to answer as to how this could have happened.

niallpatrick

Hospital is no place for the sick, covid MRSA frequent flyers lax security or zero security at all

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141626#Comment_120141626

Well yeah, there is several investigations on going, including a criminal one.

Horrific incident.

The poor man.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141626#Comment_120141626

How would you expect nurse's to stop a violent attack involving someone with mental health issues,

We absolutely need more and larger facilities for dealing with people that shouldn't be sent to a&e

Be right back

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141626#Comment_120141626

To be fair, it happened at 5 this morning when patients would be asleep and it might have happened extremely quickly.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141702#Comment_120141702

I didn't say I expected them to stop it, but this guy should have been under supervision at all times, its their job to make sure patients are safe at all times.

I doubt you would be so forgiving if it was your father it happened to.

XsApollo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141626#Comment_120141626

What staff is that exactly?

I don’t know what type of security are in hospitals, but a male in his 30’s losing his mind, is a tough challenge for anybody to stop.

at this stage there should probably be armed gardai stationed at each hospital.

Photobox

My elderly father in law was in the same hospital last year and was harassed there by another patient looking for money, I found it so upsetting that this could happen to someone in hospital, his family must be distraught.

BrianD3

It's not even that surprising given the utter state of our mental health services, hospitals, policing and justice system. In the recent A&E thread I expressed surprise that nobody had yet gone postal in our health service - well maybe now they have.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141791#Comment_120141791

Well then if there was nobody there that was able to control him he should never have been let inside the door in the first place.

Tom Mann Centuria

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141784#Comment_120141784

Not Cork, but we had 6 patients who needed supervision for one reason or another on my general surgical ward a couple of weeks ago. Documented in the medical notes they needed a one to one HCA with them 24 hours a day. At best we had 2 Healthcare assistants at worse we had none. Unless you have a secret farm where you can produce these workers they aren't out there.

We fill in incident forms daily, document in our notes it's unsafe and try to manage those patients whilst caring for the rest of the workload, including extra patients on corridors.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141810#Comment_120141810

Well then there is a problem in the system you work in, a man is dead in a place where he should have been kept safe.

You can come out with smart arse comments about secret farms but a life has been lost and somebody has to be held accountable as to how it happened.

Quitelife

Theres no where safe anymore in Ireland - Soft Judges & Free legal Aid solicitors guarantee that!

Deub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141809#Comment_120141809

Easy to say when you know the result. Not so easy when the situation happens every day in an Irish hospital and nothing happens in the end.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141626#Comment_120141626

No they do not!

This could have happened on a bus or train!

Should every ward have a security guards present?

Hospitals have enough to deal with besides this sh*te!

screamer

Absolutely awful poor man.

so much of our health systems are not suitable for modern needs. Government absolutely asleep at the wheel, closing mental health facilities, drugs endemic at this stage. Old people in general hospitals as they have no where else to go to recuperate, too few staff, not enough medicines, I could go on. An investigation will occur, lessons will be learned but nothing will change. My condolences to that man’s family and friends, horrific for them.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141842#Comment_120141842

At least the HSE and their staff won't be able to cover this one up - like the way they covered up 100+ sexual assaults of residents by another resident in a facility in Donegal.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40767780.html

Tom Mann Centuria

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141842#Comment_120141842

I doubt the blame will get as far as the government because it never does but they're accountable. I dare say a nurse or two will lose their job but nothing will change, it won't be any safer for people. The HSE is unsafe and I wouldn't want a loved one being a patient in it at present.

elperello

Just to point out that none of us know the details of this case.

It will be investigated.

Sincere condolences to family and friends of the victim. RIP

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141879#Comment_120141879

Why would a nurse or two lose their job over this incident? We know very little about it but it's hard to see circumstances where a nurse would lose their job over something like this.

Tom Mann Centuria

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142025#Comment_120142025

I don't think they necessarily should, I just think the most likely ones to face any disciplinary action wil be the nurses. Sh*t flows downstream. We don't fill in mountain's of forms because we think it'll improve things, it never does, we do it in the vain hope it'll help us keep our registration when terrible incidents like this occur.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141851#Comment_120141851

Yes there ought to be much more security present in hospitals to protect staff and patients. I don’t mean bouncer types, but people specially trained in medical security, where they understand something of medical & psychiatric situations and have good negotiation skills as well as knowing how to apply restraints in the most extreme cases to prevent such as tragic incident as happened.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141809#Comment_120141809

But according to you a nurse's are there for patient safety ,so are nurses bouncer's too .

I don't think it works like that at all for all we know the attacker was in need of medical attention.

So he was entitled to be there?

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142052#Comment_120142052

I would think nurses are the least likely to face disciplinary action if any is warranted in this case, and that's not a given. The nurses aren't the ones admitting patients into the hospital. They are only there to look after those admitted or being treated. They aren't bodyguards or bouncers and can't be expected to be everywhere all the time.

Regarding your 'sh*t flows downstream' comment. You can't sack a nurse if they haven't done something wrong. And it would have to be something very serious to warrant being sacked. So, if a doctor screws up, you can't sack the nurse. We have laws to stop stuff like that.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142056#Comment_120142056

You can't expect security to be present on every ward 24 hours a day. Hospitals are big buildings and it can take security a few minutes to make it to the wards. It wouldn't take a few minutes for someone in their 30's to kill an 89 year old. Sure pushing them over would nearly do it.

BagofWeed

I've spent a lot of nights there and honestly there is **** all to prevent anyone suddenly attacking another person so all this blame towards the staff is just nonsense. Security is generally around the two entrances anyway and by the time they could respond to an incident upstairs in either block the damage would already be done.

Vast majority of staff there are the most decent honest people I've ever had the pleasure to be around and if I hadn't been a fool when I was younger I'd love nothing more than to work there too.

BattleCorp

It's a horrible job working in a hospital. Unsociable hours and there's always the threat of assault. Most nurses I know have been assaulted more than once.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142056#Comment_120142056

Most security staff are on a minimum wage I can only assume & you're expecting them to have knowledge of

medical & psychitric situations & all the rest! Would you ever get real!

BrianD3

Notwithstanding this case, the biggest danger to patients in a healthcare setting are healthcare workers either through ineptitude, having an unsuitable temperament for the job, fatigue etc.

There are reasons (not just infection control) why healthcare workers don't want relatives hanging around in wards - because then said relatives would witness incompetence and neglect, as I have on several occasions in our public hospitals.

Elderly people on their own in overcrowded hospitals are particularly vulnerable as they often are a) quiet and/or not able to advocate for themselves b) have non specific symptoms resulting in them being "left" or dismissed as just another old person with dementia, clogging up the ward.

The media report says that the victim in this case was "discovered" with critical injuries and that other people witnessed the "aftermath" - I wonder how long he had his injuries before he was discovered.

MintyMagnum

Poor man’s wife died earlier this month. Very hard for the family. May he rest in peace.

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141791#Comment_120141791

Where I live there is one policeman stationed in major hospitals. Makes sense.

Strumms

the only measure I can think would help would be if a person who was known to have a psychological deficiency was to an extent a danger to other patients, families visiting and staff…. That for their duration of their stay in hospital that a security guard was to be stationed near the ward. A deterrent and an active presence to stop / diffuse any potentially violent or actual violent situations.

if on a single occasion the patient was to verbally threaten or physically attack another patient, staff member or visitor…. The end…. Bye… they might be there to receive X life saving treatment but upon…threatening people or attacking them, they should be persona non grata in the public healthcare system… told to get their shît and leave…

their GP gets a copy of the report…

22/01.. your patient K. Smith physically attacked a patient/staff member… as a consequence they will going forward not be of the ability to receive treatment / attend consultations or visit family members in publicly owned / run healthcare facilities.

they’ll be on the ‘list’ in A&E so if they present again ? No, sorry.. the health and welfare of patients and staff trumps the risk of having Mr Smith admitted…

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142528#Comment_120142528

What you are suggesting isn't practical, nor legal.

Imagine an old person with dementia hits someone in a hospital. They may not even realise they hit someone. Should they be denied medical treatment for the rest of their days. Same for someone with mental health issues.

I work for the HSE and regularly upload incident forms where someone with dementia in a nursing home assaults a staff member. Do we throw them out on the road following an assault? I think not.

The problem with people with mental health issues is the unpredictability so it's very difficult to know if someone with mental health problems is likely to attack someone and to therefore have a security guard present.

Gatling

I seen a situation where a teen was threatening to self harm was put on suicide watch for a better word in an a&e and spent the night having nurses,docs and security staff chase them running from door to door while laughing the whole time.

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142528#Comment_120142528

A complete fantasy

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141508#Comment_120141508

All I wanted to say. Absolute the stuff a nightmares. How to his that poor man didn’t suffer.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142568#Comment_120142568

Why would it not be legal ?

if you threaten a person in any situation, you relinquish certain rights….

a person with dementia bad enough to the point they are assaulting people, will have been diagnosed a long time ago and will have suitable care / assistance planned.

Mrs OBumble

Hospital design is the fundamental problem: having people who are sick in beds with multiple people to a room and nothing securing access between them except a curtain in absolutely barbaric.

Should be strictly single roomS, with only approved people able to access. Just like homes.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142733#Comment_120142733

Carlsberg don’t do hospitals!

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142733#Comment_120142733

No, not like homes. Like jail cells. That's what you are proposing.

We are hardly able to manage as things are so it's pie in the sky to think we'd be able to have secure, single rooms for every single patient.

Considering how many people are treated in our hospitals every year, this is the first death I can remember so, while it is absolutely tragic, there's no need to go overboard and redesign every single hospital.

Ger Roe

I was visiting a relative in a Dublin general hospital regularly, late last year.

In the space of two weeks, she was moved three times to different wards on different floors, all of which had issues with 'difficult' patients.

On one ward/floor, we were warned about two unrelated patients, in different wards that tended 'to go at each other'. There were several occasions when I visited where the ward doors were suddenly closed (with patients and visitors inside) while the staff dealt with the two difficult patients because they had met each other on the corridor. My relative spoke of frequently hearing shouting and crashing sounds at all hours of the day and night.

It was not a safe environment and I was glad when my relative was eventually discharged - she insisted on being discharged early, because of lack of sleep and the anxiety caused by other patient behaviour. I don't think there are enough staff, nurses and security to protect everyone from some of the people that you might encounter in hospital these days.

I don't know how the medical staff cope and my heart goes out to the family of the victim in Cork today. It seems that every aspect of the health service is totally screwed up, including the absolute basic right to be safe while in care.

Mam of 4

The poor man , it's unbelievable really. No one would ever possibly think something like this would happen. You'd feel for his family, thinking he was safe in bed in the hospital, getting the care he needed .

Hopefully the other patients in the ward , if he was in a general six bed ward , get the support and help needed to cope with what they possibly may have witnessed.

Absolutely horrendous incident and there are really no words. Something like that shouldn’t happen. The poor man. Just don’t know what to say.

Security in hospitals isn’t good enough. I’m sure most of us have horror stories from nights in A&Es and people kicking off. There’s no question about that. Can’t blame individual staff, but the system is dysfunctional and badly designed.

It’s also totally unreasonable to expect nurses, doctors and other medics to deal with heavy security issues. They’ve enough to be getting on with and don’t even have the skills or equipment required to deal with such issues.

I’d like to see a review of Irish hospitals’ security in general - not one that blames people, but one that actually looks to ensure systems work well.

Photobox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142835#Comment_120142835

A family member of mine was in a Dublin hospital recently sharing a room with two patients with substance issues. One of them kept asking people over and over for a light, somehow they got hold of a light, this was a room with most people on oxygen. Scary stuff.

Gorteen

Am I imagining it or did something similar happen within the past year? I seem to recall hearing something very similar but I may be wrong!

jackboy

I was in A&E with a relative one Saturday night and it was like a war zone. Drunks coming in with smashed up faces demanding to skip the queue and to be seen first. The really loud ones got to skip the queue and were seen straight away. Can’t blame the staff when they are being threatened and probably would get assaulted if they didn’t comply.