Failed driving test for not turning right when no green arrow

garyh3

OK Daughter failed he driving test because the traffic lights did not give her a green right arrow..

So the junction is a big 4 way with a right had lane for turning right. There is a right turn box just after the traffic lights. She moved onto that box and waited for oncoming traffic to stop. As it was a busy road there were no gap and so she waited for the green right turn arrow. This didn't happen so the oncoming traffic stopped light went to red, no green right arrow just a red light. The other traffic started to move from the right so she just waited. She wasn't in the middle of the junction so traffic could go past her.

Driving tested failed her because he said she should have turned when the light turned red.

Is that correct. As I can see both side. If she tuned on red that could be a fail also ?

Ten of Swords

Did the tester give her a grade 3 fault for that or did she fail because of an accumulation of grade 2 faults?

Princess Calla

You can't stay plonked in the middle of a road.

She should have made the turn.

She had already gone past her lights as they were green. She correctly waited for a break in oncoming traffic. They got a red light so it was then safe for her to complete the manouvre.

This is fairly standard stuff for right hand turning.

Alkers

She should have made the turn. She passed thr threshold for the red light when she occupied the right turn box. Only one car then can turn right when the light turns.

This situation is relatively common.

Regardless, there's nothing you can do about it now, chalk it down to experience and pass the next time. Particularly if this was the only issue.

Cork Lass

As Princess Calla said, she was on the junction so should have made the turn. Driving instructor surely told her this?

You won’t get answers here as none of us were in the car

elefant

Many years later, I can still remember my driving instructor emphasising that you need to clear the junction if you're past the lights, even if your light isn't showing as green any longer by the time a gap has arisen.

magicbastarder

as above, if she's already occupying the junction she should have moved.

Princess Calla

The one thing I'd be mindful of when approaching right hand turns like that are pedestrian lights.

The light sequence on some junctions can be funny.

You obviously can't/shouldn't drive through a "green man" but move across so you are at the white line and when it goes to "red man" drive on up the road.... obviously once pedestrians are finished crossing.

Busy junctions are a pain especially if they don't have a filter light or if the filter light doesn't turn on every green light sequence.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138705#Comment_120138705

Do that at Dennehy's cross and you'll be smashed. You're out on the junction, your light goes red, the oncoming stays green, and you think you can turn.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138791#Comment_120138791

The operative to the post you quoted was "wait for a break in oncoming traffic." Whether it is caused by a red light or just a natural break in the traffic is irrelevant to the person making the turn. Remember, even a green fileter light/arrow isn't "just go"

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138791#Comment_120138791

Op stated oncoming traffic were stopped due to a red light.

Traffic coming from the right (as in the perpendicular road to the junction) wouldn't be moving into the junction if oncoming traffic were still on a green light.

Explosive_Cornflake

As others have said, but I'll word it differently; Once you past the line for the lights, you're not under control of light anymore, they've served their purpose in getting you over the threshold. They don't apply after that.

It's just like turning right on a road at that point. One bit I do remember from doing a motorbike test is, only one vehicle is supposed to go into the junction after the threshold, it's sort of what the box signifiies, but basically it's an unmarked box if it's not there.

GreeBo

I doubt this is the only reason she failed, more likely this was one of a number of faults adding up to a fail result.

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138791#Comment_120138791

Green does not mean 'Go'. You can only proceed if your way ahead is clear and it is safe to do so. That means that the oncoming motorists who get a green light must wait for any motorist in the junction to clear the junction before they can proceed. It's a fairly basic road traffic regulation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139536#Comment_120139536

They've had a green all along, you've a green but no priority filter so are waiting.

Your green goes red and there's doesn't.

It's just one I've seen a few accidents on

It was unfortunate, but she will have learned this lesson and no reason for her not to pass test in future. For a newbie it can be tricky working out what is in the tester’s mind regarding a situation like this. Pragmatically one needs to turn right, of course. I have heard one of the reasons for failing a test is failure to progress in traffic, that is failure to take legal opportunities to move.

whelan2

Op was this in Dundalk?

Welshprince

Irish drivers are generally very poor, the town where I live has stop signs everywhere, I have yet to see them observed! Irish drivers treat Stop signs as optional when in fact they are obligatory. I even see Driving Instructors vehicles with learners at the wheel go right on through. Irish drivers park on the wrong side of the road then when pulling out they force on-coming traffic to stop. I live in West Cork in a large town, but these bad practices seem to happen all over.

db

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138897#Comment_120138897

This is a grade 3 fault so while she may have had other faults, this on its own is enough to fail. It is fundamental in how to use traffic lights so I would be very surprised if he instructor did not cover it.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138791#Comment_120138791

Is this another one like the thread about traffic lights on Millmount Ave/Drumcondra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058280390/odd-light-cycle-at-junction

Hardly conducive to safe driving for Learners or anyone new to the area

Though looking at the GMaps it's a free for all ;)

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139536#Comment_120139536

Not really they aren't going to know that the traffic is at a red light and waiting to turn unless they know the area or are you refering to crossing traffic?

garyh3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138632#Comment_120138632

is was a grade 3 for that one

garyh3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139847#Comment_120139847

Navan

garyh3

Thanks for all the comments. Yes she has done the route many times with the instructor but she has always had a green right light. Its just unfortunate that she had this hiccup with the lights. Anyhow I'm sure she will pass next time.

thanks again

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142541#Comment_120142541

That's it, she may never have seen this anywhere when driving.

It might have popped up in the theory, maybe, but I doubt it. It's just very unfortunate for her.

BorneTobyWilde

Bottom line when you get stuck in the center of junction, and light turns red , you always continue to make your turn....as think of it this way, the pathway she is actually taking has a green light...it's the green light on the other set of lights for the opposite traffic, but nonetheless it's for her pathway, taking the right, or straight ahead for the rest of the traffic taking that same green light.

walshb

Our roads, markings, signage and layouts are Sh1t for the most part. So if she was straight failed for this, the tester sounds like a pr1ck.

yes, she should have made the turn as soon as safe to do so (red light or no).

whelan2

Know of a good few who were failed for similar, very unfortunate. Daughter was failed for this first time and got it the second time

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141932#Comment_120141932

The opposite motorist sitting at a red waiting for it to go green should be aware of what is happening in the junction and should see the other motorist in the junction completing their right turn. If they get a green, they must wait for the way ahead to be clear. (We're talking about a scenario where the motorist wishing to turn right has already entered the junction, not a motorist waiting behind the white line).

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120143597#Comment_120143597

So you mean crossing traffic NOT oncoming surely?

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120143597#Comment_120143597

Most of the time, when you are correctly in the right turn box you are effectively already on the same side of the road as any motorist who would be trying to go the same route as your are, so really there shouldnt be any issues unless the other driver is being a dick.