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Economics of EV for elderly driver

  • 15-01-2023 8:07pm
    Registered Users Posts: 12,062 ✭✭✭✭

    My grandad is a remarkably fit and well 86 year old looking to change cars . But he feels that at his age he isn’t going to be driving for enough years to get the payback on an EV so would be better getting a new hybrid or efficient petrol. Likely hybrid as must be automatic.

    shoukd the payback be a factor?


  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Newoven

    My mother is 90 and she bought her Yaris hybrid 4 years ago. Switching from manual to automatic has extended her driving for a few years I think as the manual was becoming more difficult to manage. Her mileage is tiny but the independence it gives her is well worth the depreciation, tax, servicing and insurance costs. A cold analysis would say it would be better value to sell the car and take taxis but economics are not everything

    All electric cars are automatics, in fact there is usually no gearbox at all so they are very easy to drive. Brand new they are expensive and most are hard to come by. But there are second hand Nissan Leafs, Hyundai Ioniqs, BMW i3s and Renault Zoe’s for under €20k that would be worth a look. He should test drive some to see if he likes the experience.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭MojoMaker

    Would a hybrid be cheaper than an EV? Or would he only look at so-called premium EVs (which are indeed quite expensive).

    MG4 is 30K at the moment. Very few family-sized hybrids for that money.

    Payback would be instantaneous.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,482 ✭✭✭Redfox25

    Fair play to him.

    Getting him something cheap and reliable and easy to transition to would be the easiest way for him to keep on enjoying driving. As newoven mentioned above there are several inexepensive (ish) evs out there, take him out for spins in a few and go from there.

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,062 ✭✭✭✭Gael23

    Hw’d be looking at a Kia Niro or Kona sort of range

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭MojoMaker

    EVs cheaper than that right now, with instant payback.

    With a hybrid - you pay more to get it, and then pay more to keep it moving.

    Doesn't make sense to me.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭kanuseeme

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,261 ✭✭✭eagerv

    Payback should not be a factor, hope he enjoys whatever he gets.

    Perhaps something like a Zoe would be ideal, small, not too low and have good visibility. Older people often prefer a car that is easy to park and just the right height for getting in and out. Get him to test a few to get an idea.

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,062 ✭✭✭✭Gael23

    Hes interested in the Toyota Yaris cross hybrid at the moment. Coming in about €35k

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭MojoMaker

    Excuse me?

    At 86 he may not have the luxury of waiting around for years to see EVs go even more mainstream. Right now there are a few electric vehicles in relatively affordable territory that would require less upfront outlay than a hybrid and very little running costs, compared to a HEV, or even a PHEV which still needs the Devil's juice - hence the "pay more to keep it moving" principle.

    Considering the man's age an EV could be a great move - with the caveat that it's possible to install a home charger. He has all the advantages then. Life is literally too short not to experience the driving joy of a full EV - he won't regret it!

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭silver_sky

    He'd get a nice used Kona 64kWh for that. Great range out of those and higher seating also.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭kanuseeme

    You are excused.

    Give me an example of a car, not some general statement.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,418 ✭✭✭zg3409

    What is daily/ weekly mileage?

    What is regular long trip?

    Main downside of EV ownership is public charging when going beyond EV range.

    My dad in his eighties could not manage an EV public charging and mileage is tiny. I would love him to go EV but the odd long airport trip would be more hassle than it's worth.

    Definitely automatic/EV is easier to drive. I generally recommend an older car so scratches, dents don't matter even if they are done by others say when parked at Tesco.

    A renault Zoe would be closest EV to Yaris. Beware some don't have CCS faster charging, and real world range can be far lower than claimed. There are different battery sizes different years If driver can gdo 95+% of trips without having to public charge then it may make sense. Zoe's tend to be very cheap,

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,062 ✭✭✭✭Gael23

    Mileage about 1000km a month.

    Regular long trip would be 50km on a return trip twice a week in fine weather, but definitely once An occasional longer trip in the summer, he’s gone nervous driving in the dark.

    Automatic is essential yes but doesn’t have to be electric.

  • Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭pron

    1000km / month : at a fairly typical 6l / 100km means about 60 litres of petrol / diesel a month - or €100 at handwavey prices

    At 17kW / 100km - even at day rates, that's 170kW @ 45c / unit : €76.50 - so about €20 - 25 / month of savings depending on fuel prices

    (At cheap night rates, that can drop substantially - ESB night-boost would see that being about €20, or an €80 saving / month ..)

    Fuel savings won't pay for the car though - and it'd be at least a year before they'll pay off the cost of the charger install ...

    To be honest, I'd stick with the Yaris in that case - a Leaf or Zoe won't save enough to be useful, and could add stress if the house needs rewiring to support a charger etc.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,955 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia

    There's also the resale value. EVs are keeping their value extremely well, so if your grandfather needs to sell the car in a year or two (or 10), a well specked low mileage BEV could get most of his money back which could mean several years of very low cost motoring.

    In contrast, buying a hybrid or Petrol/Diesel new today could see big depreciation as the tax system begins to penalise ICE cars and there are restrictions on ICE cars being taken into city centres (even if your grandfather lives in the countryside, these low emissions zones will drive the reduction in value of ICE cars lower as city dwellers look to offload their cars to avoid the costs)

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,062 ✭✭✭✭Gael23

    Yes think he’s going to go with Hybrid, just not sure what yet.

    He didn’t like the fact that electric cars and even some hybrids don’t have a spare wheel but he’s nit thinking he’s not able to change antyre himself any more

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭...Ghost...

    This is not an EV issue. Most new cars only come with a tub of goop in the boot. Strangely, the new Leaf actually comes with a spare wheel....albeit stored under the boot and not in it.

    Free Palestine from Hamas

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭loopymum

    our 09 smax doesn't have a spare wheel!

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,418 ✭✭✭zg3409

    Ensure you get breakdown cover. Sometimes this is free with new car, sometimes it's included with car insurance. In some cases you can get a spare wheel from dealer or scrap yard and car may or may not have a location to put it. Don't get AA cover as it's crazy overpriced and they sneak it up yearly. Far cheaper to get via car insurance. You can also ring AA if stuck without having any policy with them. They just bill you a lot.

    Hybrid or non hybrid is not much different in terms of fuel cost particularly on short trips and low mileage.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,408 ✭✭✭creedp

    Thats a hateful location for a spare car wheel. Almost impossible to change a wheel without getting covered in sh1te, that is if you could even get the damn thing out of there in there in

    My 171 does but its under the boot and an absolute beast to get it out of there. When I had the previous model I got a mondeo space saver from a scrappie and strapped it to the back of the rear seat. Knee jerk reaction to getting 2 punctures in quick succession needing replacement tyres, so stuck on the road side for ages waiting for a mobile tyre lad to get to me. Of course I never had to use it for the 5 remaining years I had the car!!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,668 ✭✭✭Grumpypants

    Any car is a horrible loss maker. You have the initial cost and then it keeps costing you more. An EV at a slower rate.

    I wouldn't let payback be a factor.

    At 86, comfort and safety are going to be the number one factors. Good driving safety features like lane keep assist, forward collision monitoring so it will brake if a car stops in front of a kid runs across if front of the car.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,535 ✭✭✭celtic_oz

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,784 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd

    yep, but at 86 it is likely to be their last car and if they have the cash (and it seems that €35k + is floating about the current account, which is not surprising given the gigantic tax allowances in ireland and all the free-bees pensioners get on top of that) then its a case of

    a) dying with an Ev in the back yard that has suffered depreciation, and 35k less in cash in the bank for relatives to inherit

    b) dying in a few years with 35k more in the bank (for the kids to inherit), and an old yaris in the back yard.

    Have some people here processed that this is a last car of their life ever purchase. They will almost certainly not care about the cars resale value as they will be dead before the car is.