Work related travel, feel deceived and not happy

Figel Narage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113041#Comment_120113041

Well the issue with those two points is that although covid was temporary, you could argue so was working from home but that is still an option and will be for the foreseeable future in many companies including my employer. As stated, my level of seniority was not expected to travel until very recently this was changed. This was how things operated since the team was created so to expect them to change the way they work just for me is an irrelevant point, this was how thing operated for years and everyone used zoom regardless of seniority during covid because no one could travel.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113029#Comment_120113029

I don’t know your background, but from what you have posted so far I’m guessing that this is your first experience of this kind of environment and I’ll admit it is not for everyone or for most people. In my case I had very specific reasons for being there - retiring at 55 and I did.

I suspect it probably isn’t the kind of environment for you and that is OK. But I’d encourage you to give it a month or even two before you start forming any conclusions and do so with an open mind. I have seen people join and within a week they were leaving for sure only for them change completely and are still there long after I left and vice versa.

sunshine2018

It really should have been brought up at interview by the company. They should be ensuring a good fit for the role and be confident the person taking the job is happy to travel - if they are not the person won’t stay and it’s been an expensive recruitment process for nothing.

you are fully entitled to not want to travel - it does impinge on your life - hobbies, sleep patterns etc.

If you like the job and company, apart from that, you could sit down with your manager and express your concerns - propose an alternative to the travel and how you’d manage to build relationships or whatever , without travelling.

if they can’t function without you travelling I’d look for another job

life is too short - if travelling for work makes you unhappy don’t do it

best of luck

Blazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120112520#Comment_120112520

"but does mention in the 'place of work' section that I may have to work in the company's other places of business or in affiliated company's locations. I took "

seriously? This line should have immediately stood out to you as requiring travel. Working in another part of the building ffs.... will you cop onto yourself. You didn't research the role properly, failed to notice the line above and either ignored it or was too stupid to understand it. You go ahead and let your manager know that you can't travel and you can forget working past your probation period.

Figel Narage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113132#Comment_120113132

Thanks for the response, I've worked in many multinational financial services firms and I'm not new to this environment.

As I've said this is the only company that is expecting travel out of all the companies I've worked for.

I have strong experience with the job itself so I know what the environment is like but I've never been expected to travel before and any job I see advertised that expects travel from the applicant is up front about it.

I'm not going to make any rash decisions for the moment and I think saying nothing for the moment and bringing up the travel issue to my manager in March (or when he brings it up) is the best scenario while keeping an eye on other roles out there.

Ofcourse, my manager could say its no problem if I don't want to travel which could be a possibility as my level of seniority didn't use to travel at all until very recently which is something I'm not considering but could happen and would be great but outside of the travel issue there's a number of things that I've been disappointed with so Im not sure if this is the correct place for me long term but I'll likely keep my head down until the travel situation requires to be tackled head on in March but could be August.

sunshine2018

That’s very harsh !

That kind of line is in most contracts as a cover all for the company.

poor recruitment practice on the part of the company

bucketybuck

Create an excuse as to why I can't travel in March and pass probation in June then dig my heels in and refuse to travel.

That may be rather foolish, your contract may talk about 6 month probation but in Ireland they can dismiss you any time in the first year with very little effort, probationary period be damned.

Figel Narage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113167#Comment_120113167

Hey fella, I'm all for constructive feedback but let's came it down with the insults there, there's no need for such aggression. I have a feeling you wouldn't react like that if we were speaking face to face so let's not go down the route of insults and have some respect for one another.

Any job I've ever had has mentioned that while I might be working in x, you may be required to work in another location (very standard) and my previous company had the the same wording regarding affiliated companies/legal entities and again, no travel required. There's many legal entities who act as either subsidiaries or sister companies to the entity I work for but are located in a different section of the building (additionally there is a seperate site in kildare so I don't think it was expected of me to expect international travel based on that!)

As stated I did research the role, company and team extensively, there was no indication travel was required and it is highly deceitful for this to be omitted.

Figel Narage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113234#Comment_120113234

That's true, maybe not the best plan but it is harder to remove someone once past probation

Count Dracula

I never advertise travel when looking for Reps because it is not something I want to advertise. I expect employees to work hard wherever they are, all the time.

Travel is a doddle, I can understand it can be difficult with a young family, but them is the breaks.

When employees are getting sent to Bermuda there is rarely any complaints, even in hurricane season.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113300#Comment_120113300

In the first year, no, it really isn't.

Nigel Farage doesn't like going abroad. Who knew?

Figel Narage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113336#Comment_120113336

Once passed probation it is but it's fine if you don't agree, thanks for your input regardless

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113315#Comment_120113315

'Travel is a doddle.'

My late brother was trapped in a hotel in Sierra Leone for 10 days, I think it was, with armed gunmen rampaging in the streets firing Ak-47s. There were other western companies employees trapped in the hotel as well. He said a lot of the 'armed guards' just melted away into the chaos.

He said it wasn't fun.

Figel Narage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113427#Comment_120113427

Haha, I don't share his political views, I was born in the same place as him in the UK so everyone jokes by calling me nigel farage so decided to make my name on boards this

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113315#Comment_120113315

Why would you not want to give candidates a clear understanding of the Job spec? There’s lots of reasons why travel doesn’t work for people, including caring responsibilities.

Count Dracula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113468#Comment_120113468

How exciting.

Did he get the diamonds home?

Count Dracula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113532#Comment_120113532

I don't want any losers applying in the hope of getting an all expenses Knees Up in London every 8 weeks ... as opposed to making us some money.

If you know you know.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113315#Comment_120113315

That you don't want to advertise is and keep it a secret says all anyone needs to know.

Count Dracula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113616#Comment_120113616

Cheers, I am glad you know that now.

Those you say they do, don't, those who don't say, do.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113590#Comment_120113590

So you DO want people who have responsibilities for caring for children with disabilities or frail elderly parents surprised when faced with expectations of eight weeks away from home?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113590#Comment_120113590

It would be fair enough if they don't tell you if they did exactly that.

Blazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113240#Comment_120113240

sorry didnt' mean to be aggressive but that quoted line makes it fairly obvious that travel was involved. At the very least it should have been a red flag to you and you should have followed up on it during the interview process.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113432#Comment_120113432

Probation has dick all to do with it, in year one you simply don't have standing to bring a case, unless the reason given for ending the employment falls afoul of one of the protected classes. Something that is trivially easy for the employer to avoid.

But hey, good luck with your plan.

Rigor Mortis

I'm surprised that a candidate would not see the other locations line as being travel. Other locations would never be used in relation to different parts of the same building.

I wish you the best, but I think this is on you.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120112517#Comment_120112517

Just leave if it doesn't suit you.

Sounds like it's common in similar roles. They were dishonest in how they sold the role though. You'd have expect more of the same dishonesty in the future.

Figel Narage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113654#Comment_120113654

Thanks bud

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120112685#Comment_120112685

"...There's been a few other things they've done since joining which I'm not happy with..."

Not surprising tbh. Not telling people there will be dangerous work travel has to be the tip of the iceberg.

Figel Narage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113641#Comment_120113641

Thank you, Apology accepted. Honestly It doesn't seem very obvious to me from reading the contract, as stated they have another site in the country (that houses another few legal entities) so I thought it would be potentially what they were referring to.

Again, anyone I know who had to travel for work was made very aware at the interview stage, even if I made the assumption travel was required from reading the contract the interview was over at this stage so I couldn't have followed up during the interview stage

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113672#Comment_120113672

I would take it to mean between different locations in the same city or at the most locations in the same country. Not regular international travel and not to dangerous locations.

Usually the amount of travel in week, month or year is explicitly stated in the interview and often in the job advert.

Former Former Former

Have to say OP, going for a job with a "large international bank" and assuming there would be zero travel was a long shot, and tbh I don't think two trips in eight months is excessive in this line of work.

That said, if you're genuinely freaked about the March trip, suggest you come up with a plausible excuse to cancel, or better yet, give it a lash and see how it goes.

If you like the job otherwise, I cannot overemphasise how bad an idea it is to dig in and refuse to travel. You won't recover from it.

Count Dracula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113633#Comment_120113633

I am not entirely sure what you getting at with this comment.

But any of my employees who have children with special requirements or needs are always facilitated. i employ 3 Au Pairs to work full time in our on site creche in our London, Barcelona and Istanbul workplaces. The Berlin office has an external creche facility in the same building. Dublin has proved expensive and I tend to not employ Irish women who are broody, what a total waste of time and money. Why would I employ someone who is more interested in getting paid to have kids? I run a business not a charity. All my Directors know the score.

Frail elderly parents are not employed either, all wood is fresh and young and hungry for money. I am very frank with younger women employees in the Dubin office, they are all told that if they get pregnant their jobs will become a nightmare, they know this. we cannot afford to have our business compromised by mothers running up and down the stairs stinking of baby and then trying to make us money, it doesn't work. I have re-employed mothers after they have them up and wiping their own arses etc. But that maternity hoop is a total no no. I would nearly pay them to not work, everyone else does?

One of my Dublin staff got/took a transfer to Barcelona just to get pregnant, i know for a fact she did.

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114011#Comment_120114011

Do you live under a bridge?

Figel Narage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114006#Comment_120114006

Seeing as I've worked for 2 other large international financial services firms that didn't require travel I'm quite suprised it wasn't mentioned and don't think it was a long shot to assume otherwise. As stated previously, it's scheduled for 2 one week long trips in 2023 but could be more and 4 one week long trips scheduled for 2024 but again could be more.

Not going to bring up the travel thing until they want me to book flights and accommodation then I'll say I won't be travelling but will accomodate myself as much as possible to make it work in lieu of the travel (I.e. schedule my work hours around the trip locations time zone, etc.)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113672#Comment_120113672

In fairness, "other locations" could also refer to domestic travel within the island of Ireland. I still think the employer here should have specified international travel would be part of the role.

The only reason I can think of why they wouldn't, is because it would make recruiting for the role difficult.

I wouldn't be in a hurry to head off to somewhere where I need an armed escort, thank you very much.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114011#Comment_120114011

It’s really trying running a major department of a major global business whilst posting frequently on Boards. I find it hard to juggle it myself, but I manage 😁

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114138#Comment_120114138

Helps when you are alternately the best and worst boss you can imagine.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114011#Comment_120114011

Just on the off chance that you’re actually serious, you’re going to be spending quite a lot of time at the WRC in the coming years.

1) Employees with children aren’t going to bring children with them on business trips. They’re not going to disrupt schooling and the other partner to salve your ego.

2) I wasn’t referring to employing frail elderly people. I was referring to employees who have responsibilities looking after frail elderly parents and can’t just drop everything on a whim.

If you’re recruiting people for roles that involve travel, you need to make this clear in the job spec.

I may have missed it, which country are you travelling to in March op?

A job in banking where your contract states you may have to go to different locations, now they tell you that you have to briefly travel to a different location, who’d have thought.

witchgirl26

OP I know your annoyed they didn't mention it in the interview but could it be that it wasn't necessarily on the cards at that point so they didn't feel the need to bring it up. Maybe the managers involved thought it would be done via Zoom as well but have now been told themselves that it can't be.

2 weeks in the year isn't a lot & neither is 4 to be honest. My old job was about a week away every 2 months at least.

While a lot of international organisations cut travel during Covid, it has been noted that it is much easier and quicker to get things done when people are able to get together in person rather than over email or zoom calls. I'd say it's more reduced the travel amount for work but not gotten rid of it.

I know you mention that you have worked in other international banks & didn't have this but were those roles at a lower level or very Ireland specific in comparison?

You can try having a chat to your manager but even after probation, if you refuse to travel, they could terminate your contract with appropriate notice under the fact that you are essentially refusing to do something that they maybe consider key to your role. You wouldn't have much comeback with that one.

I know you don't mention country even though you say it's very dangerous. I've been to many countries with my old job and a couple of them were a little bit on the risky side but to be honest, that was the one where I probably was safest in the whole because there was so much focus on the safety that they weren't going to let anything happen to me.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114581#Comment_120114581

If travel is something that they maybe consider key to the role, they should definitely have mentioned it in the job spec. Failure to mention this would definitely go against the company if it came to unfair dismissal proceedings.

Having said that, I'd imagine that the OP doesn't particularly want things to get that far. Everyone loses in that scenario.

Flinty997

Nothing like being locked in compound, in an apartment at night, with free roaming guard dogs to feel "safe".

snotboogie

Is travel in general a big issue to you or is it simply the fact that it is to a dangerous country that requires constant protection? Are all of the future trips to dangerous countries? If travel in general is a dealbreaker you should be bringing it up before you accept any role imo. I can completely understand you being well within your rights to question travel where you need constant armed protection, questioning trips to London or New York or Singapore is going to be a lot more difficult.

If you are talking about regular business travel you will see a lot of comment on online forums and reddit about travel being redundant and how everything can be done perfectly over zoom. This sentiment is not necessarily shared in industry. Explaining to a VP how he doesn't best understand how business should be done and that you know a better way a month into your role will probably go down like a lead balloon.

Gusser09

OP the best way to tackle this is to have a chat with your manager. Ask him about the travel and why it wasn't in the job specification which they advertised. In my view if they mentioned other locations it's a bit sneaky when they turn around and say the other location is in bangkok or somewhere. That's just not good enough.

Tell them that you can't travel internationally due to other commitments and that you can't do overnights.

Good staff are really hard to find these days and there is a reason why they went with you. You can be guaranteed that they interview a lot of other people too.

I wouldn't be sticking around if they don't offer a good enough explanation as to why they didn't specify this. At the moment the cards are in your hands. In a years time they might not be though.

Hand in your notice if you're not happy but work you're arse off during the 4 weeks or whatever it is. Let them see what they would be missing out on.

Have a look online and see if you can find a previous advertisement for the role and see if travel was included in the spec. There is a very good reason why they have left it out. Nobody of any quality who possesses experience is willing to take those international travel roles anymore. They in my opinion are a race to the bottom. I see it in relatives who are miserable with the weeks on end in hotels and the likes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114662#Comment_120114662

You are now making up your own storyline.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114799#Comment_120114799

Would it not be somewhere in the small print of the signed contract? That would be the first place I’d look. Maybe the document is pages long but a scan for such words as “location”, “travel”, “international”, etc might yield something.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114831#Comment_120114831

No we used to send people to to a location where this happened. No warning beforehand. They discovered it the first night.

In that company I ended in another part of the world, Caribbean on my own. Often ended up in not great areas by accident as I had no local guide. The company made the trips so much hassle, I avoided them there after.

NewClareman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114006#Comment_120114006

This!

@OP you come across as feeling hard done by and looking for posts that support your point of view. You need to step back a bit and see whether you want a future with this company. Taking a confrontational or negative attitude at this early stage will get you nowhere. At best you will be sidelined but much more likely you will be "managed out". Far better to start looking for a new job now, before you damage your reputation.

Ignore the posts suggesting you cannot be let go, you most certainly can. All it takes is an effective HR unit, to advise your manager on the appropriate procedures.

Figel Narage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120115013#Comment_120115013

Had multiple looks on the contract and job spec, no mention of travel

Etc

This might not be an issue OP, travel budgets have been slashed in my company for the last 2 years and I’ve heard similar from friends in other multinationals. Training and travel are always the first to be slashed so it may not happen !