Air to Air with hot water systems

micks_address

Hi folks,

Been looking at some air to air systems on youtube. Like the idea of being able to cool the house in summer. Daikin and Toshiba seem to be the popular ones. Daikin do a multi plus system that can run three indoor units and a hot water cylinder. I'd probably need that and another to run 3 or 4 more indoor units. Anyone done a system like this in their house recently? In a 4 bed semi detached. B3 /2 ber rating with solar and battery storage. Air to water looks like it would be harder.. we have microbore.. pipes under concrete etc..

At some point probably going to have to replace gun barrell piping as well

Cheers,

Mick

micks_address

Looking at something like this system.

https://www.daikin-ce.com/en_us/product-group/air-to-air-heat-pumps/multiplus.html

It would cover cover upstairs in the house and heat water. Could add a second pump later and add the downstairs rooms. Wondering if any installers in Dublin or east coast or anyone have experience with it?

Cheers,

Mick

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120095788#Comment_120095788

There were a few looking into similar systems in various threads but I can't remember which ones. The pipework, there was an old thread that might be useful to you here. https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2056093456/gun-barrel-piping-for-central-heating-vulnerable

There is a bit about the air to air here. https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058105577/air-conditioner/p3

micks_address

Got a quote for Daikin 3 unit air to air multi plus system. It comes with 120 litre hot water tank. 10700 plus vat at 13% no grant unless it's replacing main house heating completely..

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120135366#Comment_120135366

A few here were looking at this but I don't know if anyone bought it. https://www.buyitdirect.ie/p/multi-split-27000-btu-smartapp-wifi-inverter-wall-air-conditioner-with-3x-9000-btu-indoor-units-to-a-single-outdoor-unit-iqool-3ms9k9k9k

Big Lar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120135407#Comment_120135407

Just be careful, I bought a single one of those and the fan motor in the indoor unit failed after a year. When I went back to Buy it Direct for warranty the first thing they asked for was the installation cert. Course I didn't have it, so that was the end of that - Had to buy the replacement fan. The I had to drain down the system and get it refilled. It would have been probably cheaper to throw it away and get a new one.

The devils

Just ordered multi split daikin 5kw.

Hopefully it'll do the job - heat and cool. The purifier is also a bonus for my little one (fingers crossed).

Install early May.

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418198#Comment_120418198

Do you mind sharing costs and installation details?

The devils

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418387#Comment_120418387

Model perfera sorry

Wifi also

Stream technology

https://www.daikin.co.uk/en_gb/product-group/air-to-air-heat-pumps/Perfera.html

The devils

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418287#Comment_120418287

Hopefully starting today 🙏

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120135366#Comment_120135366

That's new to me. My gas boiler is 10 years old and I have no intention to replace it with another one. So if I decommission it, while installing a heat pump system (any heat pump system), I get a grant? If so for how much?

Jonathan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448129#Comment_120448129

See here;

https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/heat-pump-systems/

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448164#Comment_120448164

yep i was kinda hoping i could keep the gas while adding air to air for hot water and some units, and later add more air to air units if it was a success and remove the gas then but they wont allow that.. anyway my gas boiler is only 4 years old so i dont want to dump it just yet..

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448164#Comment_120448164

That's a bit vague though, isn't it? For me it would be relevant to get:

"Air to Air heat pump system

This system distributes heat through air units. They do not provide hot water.

Apartment/Semi-Detached/End of Terrace/Detached/Mid Terrace €3,500"

Previously I was told on this forum that a couple of mini splits wouldn't get me the subsidy. Why not? If not, what does get me the subsidy? A single pump with multiple indoor ventilation units? How many, is 2 enough? Good to know that you don't need to heat water as part of the system. I can also not find that it has to replace your current heating system in that link

The devils

Sorry guys does anyone know who is the mod for this discussion group 🤔

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120449050#Comment_120449050

@Jonathan I think. A list here but some Mods aren't active anymore since the upgrade. https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058234282/list-of-forum-mods-and-category-mods-posted-22-02-2022#latest

Jackson22

We got air to air installed, we didn’t go for grant as needed technical assessment and weren’t sure if house would meet requirements and also quote included an additional admin fee for grant application. Cost of both parts wasn’t far from grant value.

We kept gas boiler as complementary heating - air to air does water. Most days now we just have air to air on and solar panels cover the running electricity

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120449973#Comment_120449973

End what's your plan when the gas boiler is end of life?

Jackson22

I would probably see if an electric boiler would be available as a sufficient replacement or look at adding some form of electric heaters to the rooms that don’t get heated by air to air (this is bathrooms mainly as hall/landing get spill over from other rooms).

We have been able to cut our gas usage significantly since getting the air to air done.

The gas boiler is only a few years old so replacement is a bit a way yet, I am hoping for some new or more efficient technologies in the mean time!

unkel

Ah ok, now I see why you are not really thinking of replacing it. Mine is 10 years old and high efficiency condensing boilers don't last that long, so I'm in a different game. I want to not replace it with anything fossil fuel when it dies

BTW bathrooms are ideal for heating with far IR panels. You can get ones that have a mirror finish (to replace your existing mirror) and the direct heat from them is very pleasant in a bathroom

Jackson22

Thanks for that idea on the IR panels for bathroom, it is something I will look into!

Nelbert

Does anyone know if you can double up on the grant?

I got A2W Installed under the prior value (3.5 instead of 6k grant).....

Now considering an split A2A for cooking in the summer... The grant would make a serious dent in the cost.

Biker1

No grant available for this scenario

The devils

If there was a grant that would excellent for sure...

The devils

Away for the last couple of day's and running the A2A. On since 9am this morning upstairs and down..used 2.6kw so far.

All rooms effected are sitting comfortably @ 20 to 21 degrees.

Split units set at 21 degrees...

Commissioned since Friday

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461625#Comment_120461625

Would you care to share the details of the system, how many ventilation and pump units, total cost of install before and after subsidy? Did you decommission your fossil fuel burning system?

The devils

Daikin 5kw invertors

No subsidy.

Reverse cycle system- hot/cold - just air

My little one suffers from pollen and other allergies, so hopefully this helps a little

1 split unit ( which covers kitchen, dining and extension area)

2nd unit ( covers landing , stairs 2 bedrooms and bathroom (not sure it'll make it into the other bathroom) )

No ducting installed - considered mechanical ventilation systems with it - decided against

Can't give cost out - friend installed through his company.

I still have worcester bosch gas 21kw system 8 years old this September- recently had all the internals replaced, so it's basically good for another 8 years, fingers crossed.

House was d or c3 about 12 years ago and got it up to a3 or a2 ( can't remember sorry).

Only time will tell whether it's a good investment 👌 , hopefully it is

Cheers

unkel

I'm sure it is good value and a good investment as your friend installed it. Best of luck with it!

Personally I want to get rid of my gas boiler and radiator central heating altogether and go electric air to air. But only if this is financially viable, as in not much more total install cost than getting another boiler.

poker--addict

Wet system already in place but still feel like a2a might be a sensible replacement. Efficiency doesn't seem much worse than an a2w or ground2water, but benefit of being cool in summer is a plus. Our house gets mega hot with any sort of sun in summer. Interested to hear more recent experiences and prices

NSAman

We have a Mitsubishi system in the office here. 3 floors, split.1500sq ft on each floor. Works to -5f (we also have gas as a back up).

heat and cooling in summer (very much needed) our building is OLD 1800s. Works perfectly and was installed during the redesign 4 years ago.

the monthly running costs are at most 300$ during cold periods for the whole building.

I installed air to air in my home in Ireland also. One wall mounted, does the whole house. Also keeps the house dehumidified (again older home) wifi controlled) Oil as a backup.

the house here uses gas and electric for heating and cooling was replaced with super efficient boiler in the past 4 years saving 70% gas costs and 60% in electricity.

obviously ALL properties have has insulation upgraded wifi has been added to all to save costs when not at home/away/at work.

air to air is a good alternative to air to water imho. Easier to instal and expand. Running costs for me are not that much.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447888#Comment_121447888

What sort of efficiency are you getting?