Female national record by trans athlete

Ceepo

Tiffany Newell of Welland, Ont., ran 18:02.30 over 5,000m, breaking the Canadian W45-49 record by six seconds. That record was recently ratified by World Masters Athletics (WMA); it’s the first time WMA has recognized a Canadian record set on the track by a trans woman.

So Tiffany breaks the Wo45 Canadian national 5000m record.

I suppose it was only a matter of time before we seen records broken and no doubt there will be more record's broken in the coming months and years.

No point in closing the stable door now, that horse has well and truly bolted.

Now to be clear I couldn't give a monkeys what way someone wants to live their life or if they want to identify as. But I certainly don't agree that they should be allowed compete in female competitions.

I don't like it, there I said it, and I'm not taking it back.

https://runningmagazine.ca/the-scene/world-masters-athletics-ratifies-first-canadian-record-by-a-trans-female/

Donald Trump

She sounds like a strong woman

DownByTheGarden

Were there any drugs involved here?

AMKC

She is doing nothing wrong. She is a Woman competing in a Womans sport. It's up to the other Women to better themselves to become better athletes.

Ceepo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060753#Comment_120060753

Performance enhancing? I wouldn't think so

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060959#Comment_120060959

Were there any drugs involved here?

Could they be considered performance enhancing if they get you into a division where you have an advantage over others that dont take those drugs?

Im nitpicking here tbh, but i think its a fair point

Ceepo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060797#Comment_120060797

How would you define a woman?

Do you think that she would have benefited from 30 years of muscle and tendon strength that testosterone would have gave her.

Ceepo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060980#Comment_120060980

The article doesn't suggest any peds were taken.

There is however testosterone reduction medication involved

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060999#Comment_120060999

No because after a few years on Estrogen most of that advantage is lost and she still has to carry a bigger and heavier bone structure because of her disadvantage of having the wrong hormones in her body for however long she had it so if anything she is at a disadvantage.

Ceepo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061053#Comment_120061053

But she wasn't disadvantage by having "wrong hormones" she was born male and as such she produced testosterone. Which on average and I say again average allows for 10/12% speed 25/30% strength difference. Which she would have benefited her from puberty to her transition

KSU

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061053#Comment_120061053

The evidence does not support this

Study here shows 12% advantage retained even 2 years post transition

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577

There is also the matter that Estrogen is only one aspect to the benefits, while RBC and HGB do reduce to levels seen in cis gender women they are still amongst the statistical outliers within the gender. To my knowledge (happy to be corrected) there are no longtitudinal studies which state otherwise

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060797#Comment_120060797

Can't reverse the strength a man gains growing up. Beating a record by six seconds isn't somebody having a good day, it's a completely different league.

py

Similar to Ceepo, no issue with how anyone chooses to live their life. Until there are better studies/evidence, imo it would be best to have trans athletes compete against each other.

Ceepo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061236#Comment_120061236

I totally agree. And just because testosterone is suppressed it doesn't mean there's no retention of the benefits gained.

You also need to take into account that women in that age bracket o45/49 may well have their own hormone issues if they're peri/menopausal.

Pherekydes

Hormones don't last forever; neither do their effects. It was a particularly weak record. Sinéad Diver averaged 16:50 per 5k during her recent marathon in the same age group.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061053#Comment_120061053

That's a very unique interpretation.

Original.

KSU

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061369#Comment_120061369

But hormones are not the only variable. Lower limb alignment plays a vital role in injury risk and sex plays a huge role here . Is lower injury risk due to lower Q angle not highly advantageous in terms of trainability especially in masters category?

Spanish Eyes

Probably failed to qualify in the biological men's category, so calls trans and beats the bio females. That is not right or fair.

Trans men are men, even with body reassignment or whatever they do. Anyway I thought there was some rule introduced banning men who transition after puberty from participating in women's sport? Maybe it doesn't apply to Canada, and I could have my facts wrong too.

Ceepo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061369#Comment_120061369

To the best of my knowledge this is the first record to be broken, maybe there's is more that aren't as public yet. Idk.

To me it doesn't really matter what time they ran, or whether the previous record was "soft" or not. If you're focused on the time you're missing the point imo.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061420#Comment_120061420

Trans men are men, even with body reassignment or whatever they do. Anyway I thought there was some rule introduced

I was going to say your wrong but actually you are right yes Trans Men are men and yes Trans Women are Women.

So well done for being right on that one.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061420#Comment_120061420

Yes I'm sure she took such a monumental life change purely to compete in the prestigious 45-49 years old championships

Sandwell

It's barely worth trying to have these conversations on here as they invariably attract the worst people on the internet. I don't know enough about the science involved to have an opinion.

Spanish Eyes

I obviously made a mistake above. Trans women are biological men. Nothing can change that at all, it's a fantasy. Gender identity is one thing, but a man cannot become a woman ever, and vice versa. Gender is not biological sex.

I really do think that sportsmen who transition and participate in female sport are failures in their own male categories. No other way to stay competitive other than pretending you are a woman right?

They can wear a dress, paint their nails, lips eyes, wear falsies, high heels, the works. It doesn't make them women. The rational unwoke world knows this. The emperor has no clothes.

Calahonda52

I agree with OP, lives are for living whatever the complexion.

3rd and 4th and 5th category needed

male who trans to female,

female who trans to male

Other

Complete bolloZ or lack there of as the case may be

Oscar Madison

It's a bloke which ever way you want to dress it up!

I wonder how do the genuine female athletes feel about this

nonsense competing in their sport. It makes a mockery out of

years of hard work in training & effort!

babacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061701#Comment_120061701

Couldnt agree more. My first reaction to this post been "what do you care?" then "so you envy them for now being able to compete? What stops you from just doing the same?" to now "hmmm...maybe he/she is on to something. What would Infantino do (you know this Fifa dude)?" and then I thought: this is brilliant!

We currently have Men Records and Women Records. Both generate fields, marketing and (for some like certain shoe companies) money. So why not taking this opportunity and creating a third field? TransG Records?! Means more races/categories. More advertising more spotlight etc and hence more money! :D

average_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061462#Comment_120061462

Science of Sport covers this topic very well, worth a listen about the actual science.

I don't care how people live their lives, but women spent so long fighting for their rights in sport, it can't be thrown away now.

Ideal solution is to have two new categories, trans men and trans women, same financial prizes as other categories and time will show if there is any advantage

longrunn

In all sports there should be just two categories, Open and Womens. In the Open category anyone can compete, male or female or trans. In the Womens it would be just for biological women. I think this would go a long way to improving equality in sport, especially for field sports like soccer. The Open category would probably be dominated by biological males due to inherent physical advantages in strength and speed but it would allow women and trans that have other compensating attributes to compete at the highest level. For the women that don't have the necessary compensating attributes, there would still be a Womens category to provide them with a level playing field.

kneemos

You might struggle to come up with enough trans men or women to make a team or race at competition level.

Buddy Bubs

What a time to be alive!

Imagine the history books of the future and how they will look at this period. Or era, sorry. Might not be allowed say period in the future.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061836#Comment_120061836

• obviously made a mistake above. Trans women are biological men. Nothing can change that at all, it's a fantasy. Gender identity is one thing, but a man cannot become a woman ever, and vice versa. Gender is not biological sex.

Actually no but you are making mistakes now.

Trans Women are Women. It's not a fantasy.

Well if a man is a man and happy with his male parts then yes he will never become a Woman but if someone is born with the wrong parts in the wrong body and they know this be it a woman in a male body or a man in a female body then yes they are a Woman or a Man just with the wrong body parts and they might have lived as they thought society expected them to live untill they do not have to anymore and can live as there true authentic self.

• I really do think that sportsmen who transition and participate in female sport are failures in their own male categories. No other way to stay competitive other than pretending you are a woman right?

That's rubbish

First of all a person changing to there preferred gender has to be on Hormones at least a year before you can undergo any gender affirming surgery like ffs or GRS Surgery and unless you have lots of money or live in America with a good job and insurance this can take years to happen.

It would be far easier for a male to work out a bit harder as a male and get better that way than it would to put there whole life on hold and start changing gender so they then can compete in Woman's sports. That's utter rubbish

It's TERF Territory. Are you a TERF?

• They can wear a dress, paint their nails, lips eyes, wear falsies, high heels, the works. It doesn't make them women. The rational unwoke world knows this. The emperor has no clothes.

I agree all that materialistic stuff does not make them a Woman the same way it does not make a Woman a Woman. It's just makes you look and feel better and pretty.

They were women already before all that stuff.

So you are saying the World that is asleep knows this lol.