Canada and assisted suicide for mental illness?

slither12

Canada legalized MAID in 2016. Over the last six years, they've expanded the criteria to include non-terminal people with physical illnesses and next March, those whose sole illness is mental will be eligible.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying.html

I know Belgium and Netherlands allow it as well.

StupidLikeAFox

Thanks for letting us know 👍

ancapailldorcha

Is there a point you want to make?

wotzgoingon

Right thanks for the heads up. I'm off to Canada in the morning to kill myself. I'll see you on the other side.

Larbre34

Hardly a Current Affair.

Have you got a point? Do you need a sponsor or something?

Jack Daw

It's wrong , mental illness is something that is curable and I do not believe assisted suicide is appropriate for mental illness.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-wests-uncivilised-euthanasia-policy/

https://nationalpost.com/news/canadian-veterans-assisted-suicide

#

The 2 stories above prove that assisted suicide as an option in some countries has gone too far.It clearly should be available however the circumstances where it is allowed need to be very strict and I don't believe mental illness should be one of them.I always believed the reason assisted suicide existed is that it only to be used where people would be too weak to be able to commit suicide themselves and need someone else to do it for them to put them out of their misery because they were incapable of doing it themselves.

I suspect due to the way the opening post in this topic is though that the mods will now close the thread.

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057775#Comment_120057775

I'd agree with most of what you expressed. I don't see mental illness as a candidate for dignified dying. I'm in favour of this action though, as an act of compassion for those who face terminal illness with physical pain.

I don't think this debate has been fully expressed in the Irish public realm.

osarusan

As of two weeks ago, the Canadian govt was looking to delay this.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/18/canada-medically-assisted-death-delay

Starting March 2023, Canada is expected to become one of the few countries in the world to allow physician-assisted death for chronic mental disorders. But on Thursday, the justice minister, David Lametti, said the government would seek to delay the expansion of medical assistance in dying (Maid), following criticism from psychiatrists and physicians across the country. “We are listening to what we are hearing and being responsive, to make sure we move forward in a prudent way. We know we need to get this right in order to protect those who are vulnerable and also to support an individual’s autonomy and freedom of choice,” Lametti said.

wotzgoingon

I don't see a problem with assisted suicide for mental illness. A lot of suicides in the world are people who have mental illnesses so a safe way to do it if you were going to anyway seems like a good option.

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057882#Comment_120057882

There is a difference though. There is always (well, usually) a way back from mental illness, though often difficult.

But not for terminal physical conditions, where the person is under such care that prevents them from escaping their pain.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057882#Comment_120057882

There is almost always a way back from Mental illness, there isn't a way back from terminal cancer, motor neuron disease etc

People who have mental illness are not rational in their thoughts and therefore allowing them to option of assisted suicide is dangerous for them and makes it too easy for them.At least people with non mental illness are more rational in their thoughts and therefore deciding to opt for assisted suicide can be a sensible decision, this is not the case with mental illness.

Deja Boo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057775#Comment_120057775

I couldn't read past your first sentence. Spoken like someone who has never had to endure PTSD, or (like me) can't fully understand nor comprehend the depth of suffering from severe mental illness. "Curable" is questionable, at best.

Mad_maxx

I’m not sentimental about death and see euthanasia as an act of mercy, I intend to vote for it should a referendum be held here but I think extending its eligibility to those who are depressed is beyond a slippery slope

should strictly be reserved for people with terminal illness who are in pain IMO

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057966#Comment_120057966

As I said there is always some hope with mental illness there isn't with terminal illness.It's not that controversial a view because it is 100% true.I don't think we should be allowing other people to kill someone if they have severe mental health issues .

If people really want to die they will almost always find away to do it themselves. I have always believed the whole intention of legalizing euthanasia was to provide an option for people who are not capable of committing suicide themselves due to physical difficulties caused by their condition.I think legalizing the ability to kill physically healthy people is a dangerous path to go down.

nothing

Physical pain is not the only kind of pain. No one should be denied a safe medical procedure because the general public cannot fathom the complexities of a mental illness. Not every mental illness equates to an unsound mind. Not every mental illness is "curable". I don't believe anyone should be denied support if life is unbearable for them. I also don't believe that they will just take in a distressed patient and immediately offer them a drug cocktail, no doubt there are procedures put in place, plenty of legal and medical advice and information.

WrenBoy

Was looking for more info on this and came across the disabled veteran who was in contact with veteran affairs to get a stair lift installed and was sent information on availing of assisted suicide instead, in other words if you're that stuck for help why not just off yourself, mental stuff.

As far as it being offered to people suffering with mental health, I couldn't think of a worse idea. When treating people in the depths of depression for example suicidal ideation is exactly what health professionals are trying to keep the patient from. Sounds more like a society just giving up on its vulnerable and seeing a way to save money and resources. Pretty sick stuff.

The argument for those with terminal illness is quite different and I would welcome a debate on it, but at the minute I wouldn't be in favour of it.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057882#Comment_120057882

I'm a big proponent of assisted suicide for people who support and enable assisted suicide

It's interesting that we have people in this world who would fiercly oppose capital punishment for the worse sort of bastards but will happily off someone suffering from depression.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058043#Comment_120058043

Not every mental illness equates to an unsound mind.

Eh?

It's pretty much the definition of a mental illness that the person is of unsound mind.

nothing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058074#Comment_120058074

A mental illness is a diagnosis of some symptoms that cause apparent dysfunction of a person in our current society. It does not necessarily follow that the person is not ever capable of having clarity of thought, rational or logical decisions for their lives.

Or do you think that everyone with any kind of mental illness is incapable of making important decisions for their lives?

lmao10

A good move. The audacity of people who want to keep people who wish to die alive is pretty appalling. Usually related to belief in some religious BS. If someone wants to go, then the option should be there imo.

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058107#Comment_120058107

And this is the slippery slope that needs to be avoided - we already have men claiming to be women. By your line of thinking, maybe we should also allow someone to diagnose as schizophrenic and they can legally be whatever personality or character they want to be that day? No meds, no treatment unless requested. Everything will be grand.

nothing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058132#Comment_120058132

Um what? I never said anything about self diagnosis or removing medical professionals from the equation.

dickdasr1234

"As I said there is always some hope with mental illness"

Tell that to the long-term psychotics who live a life of sheer terror suppressed by medication so that we can bear to be around them.

Psychiatry is the greatest codology - they have no idea how to cure any mental illness and freely use drugs like a wet blanket on a flame. Ffs, they still advocate electric shock treatment when all else fails!

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058431#Comment_120058431

Electroconvulsive therapy/ ECT/ electroshock has been shown to be effective in some patients with Parkinson's disease in numerous trials.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4655896/

There's some evidence its useful in treating psychoticism afaik.

Its negative depiction in pop culture like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is probably the main reason its held in such low regard.

ceadaoin.

Even more worrying is that they are looking to expand this to allow "mature minors" to end their lives. Offering it as an option to someone complaining about the government not adequately providing assistance to disabled just makes it seem like a cost cutting measure to the government. Encourage disabled people to end their lives and you don't need to spend money on them anymore. Pretty disgusting attitude, that's bordering on eugenics.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058462#Comment_120058462

If there's a genetic component to mental illness, then this policy could be inadvertently eugenic if its a cause of sub-fertility among the mentally ill.

If we get to the point where anyone can end their life with without any stigma then that will place the whole population under selection pressure for traits such as mental resilience and religiousness.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058115#Comment_120058115

It’s not a question of audacity, it’s a matter of ethics in law. When it comes to assisted suicide, it’s a question of whether or not it is ethical to permit anyone to take another person’s life. It’s not just about the option being there for anyone who wants to take their own life.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058462#Comment_120058462

Unfortunately it’s not just bordering on eugenics, it IS eugenics, because it requires a determination that the person is unfit to live in society, that they are beyond help, with the idea that in a compassionate society, human suffering can be alleviated by ending their lives.

If a society promotes the idea that human suffering is a burden on society, that makes it less painful for people to accept that they are a burden on society and they should want to take their own life. It enables people to conclude that taking their own life is the only rational conclusion to ending both their suffering, and the suffering of others -

A recent systematic review of the literature concluded that 19-65% of terminally ill patients felt that they were a burden to others. The 2016 Report relating to the Oregon Death with Dignity Act says that 48.9% of patients whose lives were ended under the Act cited ‘being a burden’ as one of their concerns.

http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2017/09/being-a-burden-a-illegitimate-ground-for-assisted-dying/

dickdasr1234

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058458#Comment_120058458

Really? Some evidence 'afaik'. Who in their right mind would take ECT for Parkinson's?

I have seen people after ECT and you wouldn't risk it on your dog!

Unlike 90% of the half-wits on Boards, my sources are not 'pop-culture' or social media: I have had the misfortune to regularly encounter psychiatrists throughout my counselling career and the honest ones are few and far between.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057775#Comment_120057775

How do you cure bipolar disorder?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058493#Comment_120058493

You treat it. Similar to treating diabetes or asthma.

Oscar_Madison

I read an article recently on Canadas MAID system - where it’s getting criticism is how often assisted suicide is being offered by medical practioners as a viable alternative to whatever challenges the patient is facing- in the article I read it was poor( as in not wealthy) disabled people who were struggling to make ends meet with no viable prospects of a better life.

I do like the idea of assisted suicide but Canadas version seems to be one of the most liberal and least restrictive- it’s certainly a debate worth having here in Ireland