Incident at George's St

Redundo

Looks like an unfortunate/tragic incident outside the Italian Bakery on George's St just now. Poor chap collapsed on the ground and it didn't look good. Ambulance responders were struggling to get access with the entrance by the clock tower closed and traffic on the Quay blocking.

914

Is this a post about the poor chap or a post about a dig at traffic on the Quay?

JourneyMan8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040579#Comment_120040579

there's always one that has to take issue with something... is it not allowed to be about both or something? everyone and their mum knows about the ambulance quay problems.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120044534#Comment_120044534

have ambulance drivers actually complained about this, or is it just a notion its causing problems for them?

Wanderer2010

The quay problem is not going to ever be fixed to allow smoother traffic flow. The reason the quay was butchered so much to add extra roundabouts, single lanes and confusing signs was to make it so hard to drive through that people would use the new bridge and hence add profits to the developers behind it. This was a secret deal between them and the council, with the condition that more tolls would be added once the success of the new bridge materialised. The dogs on the street know this.

However the whole plan collapsed, with only a fraction of their projected numbers using the bridge. Now we, and ambulances, are stuck crawling through the joke of a quay.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120045879#Comment_120045879

What actual proof have you that such a strategy was put in place other than pub talk and hear say and your own observations?

Boooourns

Everything about this thread is just odd.

thomasm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120045879#Comment_120045879

Just one piece of proof please, even if its a tiny bit circumstantial but it cant be nonsensical or 'heard it from a mate' type stuff. Just one !

fricatus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120045879#Comment_120045879

What an absolute crock!

The reason the Quay was improved (it is much better now than when it was a four-lane highway) was because the city centre is a destination and its main street is not suitable to be used for through traffic.

The "smooth traffic flow" that you think should exist there would mean long waits at pedestrian lights for people using more sustainable forms of transport, such as buses and walking. Or more likely, it would mean people taking their lives in their hands to run across in front of speeding cars - which is exactly what used to happen, often with tragic consequences.

Sensibly, the council is not going to roll this one back. The trend worldwide is to force people out of cars for the majority of journeys in cities, which means better quality of life overall for residents (despite the complaints of people who expect to be able to drive everywhere unimpeded).

If there are issues with ambulances, then no doubt they can sit down with the council and work these out. Probably the best option would be only to allow taxis, utilities and emergency vehicles down the Quay at peak times. This is common in cities around the world, and surprisingly, the sky hasn't fallen down.

webpal

How is the poor chap?

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120045879#Comment_120045879

That sounds a ridiculous suggestion.

Although seeing the incompetence of locally ccs and road traffic management, I think they're way above their competency level.

Wanderer2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120046024#Comment_120046024

Ask anyone in the Council informally and they will confirm it. Do you think its a coincidence the quay was butchered at around the same time the toll opened? But given the previous hysterical defense of the council, dont expect everyone to agree. Its still a fact.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047398#Comment_120047398

Your posts are conflating two issues in my opinion . I had a peripheral involvement in matters at the time. The belief in council and central government was that when the Waterford City By Pass opened that traffic would substantially decrease on quays. Council had EU fnding to hire UK planners Gilmore, Hankey Kirke to design a layout for when the new regime would happen. More or less what you see now. However, Celtic Tiger growth and increase in private car ownership from c 700K to 2.3m in thirty years between 1992 and 2022 scuppered that. While there is no comparison in size it is interesting that Amsterdam is removing up to 10k city centre car parking spaces. They would not be the only European city thinking in that way.

And as for ambulances on the quays in Waterford, the first thing that seems to happen when a siren sounds on Rice Bridge is that nearly all the traffic stops. Frozen.Paralysed. In every other European country that I have driven in, and thats a lot, when people hear a siren in a narrow street they drive their car or van up on the footpath and are trained to do so, to create a traffic lane for emergency vehicles. People dont seem to learn that in Ireland.

JohnC.

Absolutely that. There is plenty of room for an ambulance to get by. It's idiots who don't know how to drive who cause problems. Like that one clown I witnessed who pulled into the bus lane to "let the ambulance pass" and was the only clown blocking the ambulance, which was going down the bus lane. Don't blame the road for the utter stupidity of some of its users.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120045968#Comment_120045968

Have a look at the diversion on Manor Street coming from Parnell Street.

5 years studying for a college qualification didn't design that!

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047761#Comment_120047761

I think you need to elaborate on the above a bit please, I don't think its a diversion, its a permanent route change if its the one I think you are referring to..........?

2SWEET

Wow! Hearsay in Waterford never ceases to amazed me, the poor chap was in fact a lady who unfortunately passed away. May she rest in peace. And as for the traffic analysis I won't waste my time.

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120046855#Comment_120046855

You think the main traffic route into the city has been improved? If it wasn’t such a stupid assessment it would be funny.

The quay is an absolute disgrace. To the person that asked if ambulance drivers have complained about it, yes they have. Two paramedics live beside me and at it’s worst, it can take an extra 5 - 7 minutes to get from the end of the bridge to the traffic lights outside the tower. They then need to navigate the traffic up Newtown and out the dunmore road. The dunmore road is what it is, that can’t be improved and has been congested for years but the Quay is a total disgrace and that extra 5 - 7 minutes is literally the difference in a persons life being saved or lost and has unfortunately been the case. How this isn’t made more public I don’t know but the city planner needs a kick up the hole and the Quay re-opened to 4 lane traffic.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049789#Comment_120049789

Why do Ambulances insist on using the quay unless they are responding to an incident actually within the vicinity of the quay…..they are well aware of the delays that can occur yet still insist on using it. And It’s not like they have to pay the toll….if they are rushing back from somewhere like new rath or beyond then why not use the bypass and toll bridge and they can surely get to the hospital quicker……other than Ambulances/emergency vehicles does an extra 15 mins really matter to the ordinary motorist……who actually has an alternative route but is too stubborn to use it

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049789#Comment_120049789

Out of interest why do you need four lanes for it to work?

I remember when the Quay was four lanes, I worked as a delivery driver, and the Quay was never free flowing.

If anything it hasn't got any worse traffic wise that is, when it had four lanes. Generally the inside lane was used by people to double park which caused its own problems.

Crossing the Quay as a pedestrian was also a disaster, it's definitely safer now for pedestrians.

One simple solution is to reduce the width of the central median and that solves any emergency services issues.

Alternatively remove the median altogether, still operate single lanes similar to Patrick St in Cork.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049880#Comment_120049880

I presume they still use the Quay as it is most likely still the quickest way between point A and B.

Sure they may lose a minute navigating the Quay (only from city sq to clock tower) but most likely that route is still quicker than taking the outer ring road and TFM bridge

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047761#Comment_120047761

Diversion? You mean the new one way system that to be fair is working far better then two way traffic on manor street previously did.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120050930#Comment_120050930

It works superbly!

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120050982#Comment_120050982

So you were being sarcastic in your post where you referred to 5 years studying etc…..

friendlyfun

Love how not a single comment in the replies is about the incident itself. Quay is gone to the dogs boy shite instead.

Aquos76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049880#Comment_120049880

I often ask myself the same question, I remember an instance a couple of months ago, I was coming in the cork road and two fire brigades and the jeep pulled out of Ballybeg junction ahead of me heading into town, I turned up towards Kingsmeadow and they continued in towards town. I was heading to ferrybank and I headed up mattie hill, over morrisons road, and down Summer hill, as I was driving up the dual carriageway, here weren't the three fire vehicles coming on to the quay by the Reg, about 5 mins later I was coming out of Spar in Ferrybank and all three passed me.

Why the hell did they not just take the route I took, I genuinely believe that sometimes they are trying to stir things up by continuing to use the Quay when they clearly dont need to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120053949#Comment_120053949

Perhaps if you drove a large vehicle & didn't compare it to driving a car you might understand the difference or

the decisions taken by these drivers!

Hijpo

Maybe they have a set route outlined by the council? Do the have control over the lights to give them greens?

Aquos76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120054118#Comment_120054118

That route which I took is a Bus Eireann route so I don't see how a fire truck wouldn't be able to take it.

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049880#Comment_120049880

You call refusing to pay a €2 charge being stubborn? The toll is not a viable option, the low number of users the bridge has had since it’s inception tells you that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120054170#Comment_120054170

I can only assume that a fire engine is a lot heavier & wider than a bus & with all

the additional equipment but it wouldn't be the suggested route to be taking.

I'm sure that a fire engine can travel safer & faster on level ground rather than inclines!

I'm quite sure also that these drivers do not need guidance from the general populus

however well intentioned that guidance is!

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120054891#Comment_120054891

id imagine emergency drivers are well equipped with the knowledge of the fastest routes around the city, i know a couple, i must ask them what their protocols are, but id also imagine their needs vary greatly compared to most other road users, a bus route doesnt necessarily need to get around the city quickly, it just needs to get around, many buses travel at below speed limits, and of course must regularly stop, an emergency vehicle generally needs to get to a single place, and quickly, these are radically different needs, and not comparable....

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120054170#Comment_120054170

A bus does not need to overtake traffic. I would imagine a fire engine trying to get down summerhill with traffic on both sides of the road would be similar to the Quays.

Especially at the top of summerhill, descending, cars are parked on the left and traffic stopped at lights on the right.

The only issue for the fire service taking the Quay is the section from say city square entrance to the roundabout at shaws (200-300 meters maybe).

Aquos76

I would have assumed that they would always try and go the quickest option, I have seen fire tenders going over cannon street and Morrisons road in the past. I also remember reading somewhere that the newer fire tenders are narrower than the old ones, in fairness, they'd want to be as many of the newer housing estates across the city are certainly not ideal for any emergency vehicles

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057667#Comment_120057667

id imagine its a very dynamic situation, as we live in a very dynamic world, some routes probably become more difficult, and subsequently slower for services over time, for various reasons, id have faith that the services know the best routes for their needs, and ultimately for our needs, but it shows how concerned we all are for the integrity and functionality of these services. we all need these services to work as best as possible, and the current developments in our overall health system is simply beyond disturbing at this stage.....

Waterford26

Someone mentioned Amsterdam here..so we trying to follow this way ok, but forget about much worse weather for cycling, walking etc to work.. will never take mi bike to work at 6am in rain and wind!! No matter how "green" this council wants me to be! Also ambulances in Netherlands are very often accompanied with 3 motorcycle police chaps to clear the road ahead!!

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120066142#Comment_120066142

You do realise Ireland and the Netherlands have similar rainfall?

I also do not think anyone is suggesting that you have to cycle for work at 6am, I'm sure people in Amsterdam also drive (although they have much better public transport which makes that a good alternative) but city centre travel is largely by bike which would be the aim of most Irish cities, have City centers car free zones and have plenty of cycle routes available for those looking to cycle to the city centers.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120066765#Comment_120066765

Loads cycling to get their daily/weekly shopping…..very practical alright

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120066765#Comment_120066765

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120066787#Comment_120066787

...public transport is gonna be the key here, and an astonishing level of investment is gonna be needed for it, in order for this whole cycling thing to work, and i cant see that happening anytime soon, id say hundreds of billions would need to be invested over the next few years in public transport, in order for it to actually work, but will that happen!

fricatus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120066787#Comment_120066787

Have you ever actually been to the Netherlands? Practically everyone in the suburbs has a car and can easily drive to a supermarket. But they can also cycle there in safety, whereas you're taking your life in your hands here. Practically the only place they can't drive conveniently is into city centres, and people who live there use cargo bikes or removable bike trailers to get the shopping - or because it's densely populated, they can often just pick up what they need as and when, from a local express supermarket.

And yes, it rains there, and yes, I asked the question... and the answer was "you just wear the clothes for cycling in the rain!" It's surprisingly easy to cycle in the rain when you're not being splashed by cars.

fricatus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051768#Comment_120051768

In fairness, that's because the OP was only using this incident to give out about the traffic arrangements on the Quay.

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068273#Comment_120068273

Was on a short city break to a European capital over Christmas. It was ironic as there was so much about improving public transport in Ireland lately. Being there just highlighted to me again that Ireland is a million miles away from European public transport standards. This thing of reducing cars by a quarter or whatever it was may well happen over time but it will be generations from now. This thing of reducing the bridge to one lane each way for example as car use will fall, just seems like a complete fantasy to me. In Waterford’s case they won’t even build a second bridge in the city and remove the toll from the bypass to get cars out of the city or add an orbital bus route, it’s a complete joke. The plan just seems like it does not know what it is about.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068362#Comment_120068362

yea our politicians are living in cuckoo land on this one unfortunately, the idea is great, but i suspect execution is gonna be dreadful, hence leading to failure, the levels of investment needed to do the job would be off the walls, it should happen of course, but probably wont, so we re stuck with the private car until it does....

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068362#Comment_120068362

Do you think what happened in the Netherlands happened overnight?

It started only back in the 1970's, but even in the 1990 they had traffic filled streets in many areas. You type of comment about this failing and that failing is similar to the attitude they dealt with over the years.

What works in the Netherlands BECAUSE they've slowed traffic and forced cars to take the more awkward routes. People, public transport and micro mobility get the faster more direct routes in citys.

It's would be funny if it wasn't so tragic to see people in this thread say that things need to change, but then they talk out the other side of their mouth complaining when the council do perfectly logicial stuff like remove a multi lane road down the quays.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120066787#Comment_120066787

It's very practical, I can do collection from creche and a full weekly shop and still have room to spare.

There's a few reasons why people rule out shopping using a bike, the main issue down to our complete lack of safe infrastructure and idiotic drivers.

But the other issues are most bikes sold in Ireland lack mudguards etc (you buy them seperate which is stupid) and most people don't realise just how much stuff you can carry if you have panniers on a bike. I'm guilty of this myself as I regret not getting panniers years ago!

If you have a practical bike with panniers its fantastic, if you have a cargobike you can carry lots and lots of stuff and in my view a e-assist cargobike is really a game changer and can replace a car.

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072906#Comment_120072906

Exactly ,safe infrastructure and e-bikes are an absolute game changer. Living in Ferrybank I would sell my car tomorrow and buy an e bike if a safe river crossing and safe segregated infrastructure was built out as far as my workplace in the industrial estate. At the moment I'm driving and stuck in that awful traffic coming off the bypass because it just ain't safe for cycling around Waterford yet.

Waterford26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120066765#Comment_120066765

Netherlands around 810mm in last 5 years average.. Ireland 1200mm of rainfall my friend..very close 🤣🤣

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072741#Comment_120072741

Yes, I thought it happened over night 🙄

So what has the changes to the Quay achieved? Where is the segregated cycle lane that cyclist like me can use? Do I as a cyclist feel safer cycling on the Quays? I certain do not! What traffic has the changes on the Quays taken out of the city? Seen as you are so knowledgeable why don’t you enlighten me with the things the council has done to make me feel safer cycling around the city?

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120074829#Comment_120074829

As a person that cycles almost every day I can count on two hands how often I've had to put on full rain gear (jacket/pants) and I can count on one hand how many times I've had to put the rain canopy on my cargobike since September. It doesn't rain nearly as much as people think and torrential is very far from a every day thing.

If you use rain as an excuse not to cycle then it sounds like you have an unnatural fear of rain and I suppose the question needs to be asked is are you made of sugar and are you afraid of melting? There is a solution to your problems though, they are fantastic inventions....they are called jackets 😂

Buy a decent one and get a proper bike with proper mudguards etc and you'll be flying.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120074829#Comment_120074829

Depends what you compare, the west of Ireland is generally wetter than the east.

Amsterdam has an average of 133 days of precipitation

Waterford has an average of 141 days of precipitation

Approx 8 more dry days in Amsterdam than Waterford

That is giving you just under 2/3's of the year cycling in dry weather. Obviously you may need to factor in wind etc, it still gives plenty of scope to cycle if you wanted and the infrastructure existed.

Wanderer78

alternatives such as cycling definitely should be encouraged and facilitated, but we truly need to get real about this, multiples of billions of public funding must be invested in rapidly expanding our public transport systems, this must be done within this decade, in order to truly make all of this work, but the reality is, this is very unlikely to occur....

for example, we must revert our rail network to what it was previously, and beyond....

...we must also implement light rail networks in our major cities....

.....the reality....

....this isnt gonna happen, anytime soon.....

....so....