How many chances for a flaky guy?

eaglach

I've been chatting to a guy regularly for the past maybe 4 weeks. In that time we've only been on one date. I've been eager to meet more often, but he seems to be unavailable or just flakes at the last minute.

For instance, for our planned first date we were due to meet for a coffee but the morning of, I get a message saying that he got called into work last minute. I chalk this up to "**** happens" and rearrange for another date. I try to suggest the next day, but he says he's going to the gym and meeting his friend for dinner. I was a little surprised by this as it sounded like the rest of his day was free. But whatever, I didn't push it. 

Our first date happens the following week and it seemed to go really well. As it was a work night, I had to leave at a reasonable hour but he wanted to stay on longer. I figure that's a good sign that he was enjoying himself, plus he actually said he did have a great time afterwards!

The next day I suggest meeting maybe 3-4 days later and he thought it might be a bit soon after the first one. Maybe I was too eager? But in the end he does agree. Then the day before the date he cancels saying that he's come down with some kind of flu and that we should arrange for the following week. I thought this was pretty unlucky that 2 out 3 dates had to be cancelled, but what could I say. If you're sick, you're sick.

Then comes the day before our planned date, I asked him if he was still okay for tomorrow as he never mentioned it all week. Then he tells me that he completely forgot and had agreed to work that day! At this point I was feeling a bit foolish and I basically said that we should leave things for now and that he should get back to me when he's les busy and can commit to dates. I also said I was disappointed that he forgot when it was something I was looking forward to all week. I guess one thing in his defence that we didn't pick an exact time or venue, but still thought he might have been thinking about meeting at some point over the weekend.

Was I too harsh in my response? I felt I was getting the run-around and being cancelled on 3 times was a bit too much in such a short period of time. I can understand things can come up but it just felt very strange as it's never happened to me before. I know we've only been on one date, but I'd like to think that someone is interested enough in me not to forget or postpone dates regularly.

What bothers me is that he seems very interested otherwise as he messages me very regularly, randomly checking in on me and wishing me a good day. He's also explicitly expressed his strong interest as well. Have I thrown away something with potential just out of principle? He did offer to rearrange the last cancelled date, but it would have meant that I would had to change my other plans. I said to him to get in contact with me after Christmas when he's less busy, but I might never hear from him again if he thought I was overreacting, not that I got any way aggressive, just disappointed.

Just to mention that I am also a man in case that changes your views on this!

techman1

Sounds a bit suspect like he is married or something, when he cancels so many dates but wants to stay on longer for the actual date you were on, like he is trying to make the most of that opportunity because he doesn't know when he can do it again

Loveinapril

You have given way more chances than you should have, in my opinion. After the first opportunity, if he was that into you, he would have made a point of fitting in a date whenever. It sounds like he is keeping you hanging on while he is holding out for other options. Texting regularly is NOT an indicator that he is interested, sure it takes seconds to send a text. He is showing you who he is with his behaviour,believe him.

spaceHopper

Read the text messages like they were cut and pasted and sent to several people, does the context make sense. Techman could be onto something, he's married, not single or not out. I think you should leave it for now and if he comes back after christmas good but don't put all you hopes in one basket.

Princess Calla

It shouldn't be that difficult.

If both people are mutually into each other meeting up should be fairly straightforward.

I think he's "just not that into you" or else he has something/one else in the background.

You shouldn't need to chase for dates , there should be excitement at the beginning. They should be looking forward to seeing you as you are to seeing them.

Yes there is genuinely a lot of sickness out there atm, but there are so many red flags here. He’s, one of the time-wasters and likely married and using decent people like you as a between meals snack when it suits him. Block/delete.

Caranica

This guy, 0 chances. Don't waste your time.

Zero patience for flakes. Get rid.

eaglach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120014172#Comment_120014172

Maybe I wasn't very clear. The last time he cancelled he tried to rearrange straight away and was very apologetic. He was working but even suggested meeting after he finished his shift the same day. I'm just wondering if he maybe genuinely forgot because we just said a day and not a time or place and it was only mentioned once?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120014239#Comment_120014239

No, they're very much for me. We have long back and forths over WhatsApp and are in contact for most of the week.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120014264#Comment_120014264

I thought that as well. I know he's out of a long-term relationship, but that might have been a year ago now. Might not be ready to start dating again?

Dial Hard

Nobody is *that* busy, OP, especially early doors and if they're as into you as he claimed to be. My boyfriend is a separated dad of 3 under the age of 7 and he has always made time to see me. Not as much as we both might have liked at times, but he always, always made the effort and I appreciate how hard he worked to make me a priority.

YellowLead

100% you made the right call.

Its likely he has a few people on the go and you are not his first choice. I mean going to the gym instead of a date with you, he doesn’t seem too interested.

Regular texting is not an indicator - he could just be a serial texter looking for entertainment when he is bored.

He clearly didn’t try and fight for you when you said you were going to leave things, so that’s an even further indicator he just wasn’t that into you I’m afraid.

Forget him and move on!

Augme

OP, what do you want to do? You're an adult (I assume). At this stage of your life you need to figure out what you find acceptable/not acceptable, not some relying on randomness on the internet.

Personally for me, I'd find your eagerness quite off putting. It's been one date. I just can never understand how someone can develop such strong feelings after one date that they'd be genuinely feel disappointed that the follow date has been cancelled. Its one date, you know absolutely nothing about this person.

But I'm the big outlier in allow of this but in the early stages of dating I don't really think much of it. I've always been the sort of person who met partners through social circles, work etc and its taken a while for any type of strong feelings to grow for them. This whole launch yourself into one person immediately just strikes me as not the most healthy approach in the world.

Also, I'd be amazed if he is married. His behaviour doesn't say that at all to me.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058276324/how-many-chances-for-a-flaky-guy

From a blokes point of view sounds like he's going on other dates,

He likes you but is looking to see what else is out there,

Back in the day its exactly what i used to do myself, he'll look back an regret acting like that but its what happens,

Swaine

No one is ever so busy with work etc that they can't meet some they like. He has others on the go and you're a back up.

Do not make anymore effort with this guy.

Larbre34

If thats the amount of piss he is taking after 4 weeks, imagine the level of respect and commitment after 4 months, or a year.

Walk away.

eaglach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120014999#Comment_120014999

I know what you're saying, that my eagerness might be off putting, but then other people say that the person you're dating should be eager to meet you.

It's not that I've developed strong feelings, but I just saw potential in him which is very rare for me. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt as things can crop up at work, and people can get sick. When he forgot the date the last time I just thought it was the straw that broke the camels back.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120014954#Comment_120014954

Maybe I read into texting a bit much. I certainly wouldn't bother messaging someone if I wasn't interested, even if I was bored. But maybe I'm the odd one out.

Just to clarify, he did kind of "fight" as he sincerely apologised (I do genuinely think he forgot) and he tried to arrange the date for that evening. He also suggested this week as an alternative saying that he wanted to make it up to me. I was the one who suggested meeting after Christmas when he wasn't busy which he said he would.

He may well be dating others (and that could be why he used the gym as an excuse), but so be it. That's pretty normal in the dating scene from what I can tell, although I don't do it myself. I'd just rather not know!

I know people say someone behaving like this is not interested, but what should you expect in the early stages? Surely you don't think they should be somewhat infatuated with you from the start? I know I've dated people in the past where attraction grew over time. I also figure everyone has a different personality and they approach dating differently.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120015341#Comment_120015341

But other people are also saying that if you go on one date then you should not be allowed see anyone else or talk to anyone else either. Which again, I find absolutely bizarre. But people are also perfectly entitled to take that approach if they want. It's not about what other people feel is appropriate. It's about what you feel is appropriate.

As for giving him the benefit of the doubt, it really sounds like you didn't given the effort you made to avoid him after he cancelled the third time.

techman1

It's not that I've developed strong feelings, but I just saw potential in him which is very rare for me. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt as things can crop up at work

Why is that rare for you, was it his looks that attracted you, what is so special about him compared to other guys you have dated?

gmisk

Take the hint I would say.

Dial Hard

Look, OP, while I do think this guy is a flake and you made the right call, I recall a number of your other threads and I do think it's likely that you overthink and overinvest too soon.

Next time I think you should really just try to relax and take things as they come.

eaglach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120015491#Comment_120015491

I mean I gave the benefit of the doubt twice. Some would say that was too much, no?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120015555#Comment_120015555

Can't explain it. Conversation just flowed I guess. I know that with a lot of people I date I end up having to take a little bit of time to think of what to say. I don't really get that with this guy. I'm sure there are other things that attracted me, but that's the first thing that comes to mind.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120015798#Comment_120015798

I'm surprised you recognise some of my past posts. I don't create topics here very often!

I totally get where you're coming from, but when you haven't really been in a serious relationship for a long time, it's hard not to get at least a bit invested. If you're talking to someone regularly for around 4 weeks, I figure there's something more there than just talking to a random stranger. But maybe I'm a bit of an old romantic.

It's interesting that you say to relax and take things as they come. Do you think I should have just been more casual and not let the cancelled dates get to me? If I'm honest, if something doesn't go according to what I think is the "plan" I tend to look elsewhere for advice. Maybe that's my problem as the general advice seems to be that what ever X guy did was wrong and you should end it!

TheadoreT

There's plenty to pick through there that you could have done better.

Firstly setting the initial first date as a morning coffee wasn't the greatest idea imo. I don't think morning(or lunch) dates exactly lend themselves to building romance so I'd keep early dates to evenings. It's kinda sending out a friends vibe asking to meet early imo.

I think you were a little eager yes after the first date. Let someone miss you and attraction build a little. Being too full on too early will only ever make someone feel there's no jeopardy involved. Early dating needs a bit of "will they, won't they" for sparks to build. You're probably feeling plenty due to his behaviour but likely he's feeling none due to yours.

I think your instincts about him messing you about are right but you still can't display you're annoyed by that. Showing him you're uncentered by his flakiness will only make him more flaky or ghost you eventually. Whatever you do don't message him again before he does. At this point if this is going to have any hope he'll need to be doing 100% of the persuing and date setting for the next while and you need to resist the urge to chase at all.

eaglach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120016122#Comment_120016122

The first date wasn't for coffee actually. We went for drinks.

Is suggesting to meet again after a first date considered eager? I don't like to play games so I figure that if I'm interested in a second date I'd just say it, but maybe that's the wrong approach?

I'm thinking he might just have a very casual approach to dating and plays it by ear the whole time. Planning ahead may not be his thing. Possibly why he changed his plans so much.

I wasn't planning on messaging him unless he messaged me first. I figure if he's actually interested, he'll reach out again, unless I've come across as OTT by saying that I was disappointed by being cancelled on three times!

89897

If someone finds you OTT for being disappointed they cancelled on you 3 times and "forgot" a date then they need to check themselves. Its totally normal to find this annoying and id certainly not be giving them much hope.

It's also totally fine to be eager to meet someone you liked again, there's a very big difference in being eager and being clingy or overbearing. If this guy was really into you you'd know and he'd be investing time in you.

I know hes apologized and hes made feeble attempts to make other plans but If even if this did progress into a relationship would you be happy living like this?!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058276324/how-many-chances-for-a-flaky-guy

Have I thrown away something with potential just out of principle?

Potential for what? You to be chasing him around for years while he goes off and does other things? All the while he'd have you there as the handy go-to for other reasons whenever suits him

TheadoreT

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120017089#Comment_120017089

Suggesting to meet again isn't eager. Suggesting the very next day after the date is. Especially when he wasn't exactly matching your levels of keenesss initially by cancelling the coffee last minute.

People generally react to someone they like being flaky completely wrong, by over persuing themselves and getting annoyed like you have here. That'll only ever end badly for you.

You either decide you're not into that sort behaviour and find someone as keen as yourself. But in the real world it's fairly common for someone with lots of options to behave that way initially so if you want to actually be successful you need to learn to chill out and let them come to you more. They'll gradually make you more of a priority when they realise you're different from all the others who chase them.

Big Bag of Chips

I don't know, OP, it seems to be a minefield. If you try arrange to see them again you're too eager. If they don't try to arrange to see you, they're not interested. If they arrange to see you they're interested but you shouldn't get too invested.

I think in this instance you should forget this fella. You might be looking for a relationship. He might be looking for someone to fill that odd evening when he has nothing else planned.

You get to decide your own limits. You get to decide howany chances you're willing to give someone. You get to decide when you've had enough. If you'd like to give him another chance there's no harm in that. You're not going to lose anything. If it works out great. If it doesn't at least you'll know you gave it a chance and you'll move on to the next one with a little bit more experience and knowledge of this sort of fella.

Deeper Blue

OP he's obviously a complete timewaster

If you arrange another date I guarantee you the same thing will happen

Forgetting that ye'd arranged a date after he'd cancelled a couple already is the biggest red flag of all to me

Bin him ASAP

eaglach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120017215#Comment_120017215

It's interesting that you have this viewpoint. It seems like you're the only one who holds this opinion here!

From what I gather, people seem to expect someone you've started dating to make you a priority from day one and if not, you give them the heave ho. Do you think this is too idealistic?

Also, is it a bit like playing a game if you're pretending not to be interested even though you actually are?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120017120#Comment_120017120

I understand that viewpoint, but it's assuming that everyone who has cancelled dates will behave that way. No way of knowing that without being inside his head. Maybe I give people the benefit of the doubt too often.

89897

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120017943#Comment_120017943

Its not idealistic but Its not about making someone priority, is about making your intent clear. Most of my really good first dates ended with a plan of a second date, be it a few days, week etc ahead but the intent was known.

And you're right its playing games if you not being honest and putting fake tests out there.

You can know without being in his head, hes shown you a pattern. People will show patterns and who they are very soon. He should have been making an even greater effort at this stage if he was interested.

TheadoreT

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120017943#Comment_120017943

It's idealistic and intense. Peoples lives don't start the day you matched with them or met them for the first time. It's likely he'll have other people on the go at the same time if he's good at dating. People with lots of options will generally go for the most mysterious or unobtainable. Call it playing games, but you're just giving yourself the best chance of success.

Have you ever dated someone where everything has run perfectly smoothly and it all seems a bit flat? No spark? Don't underestimate what this guys sort of behaviour does for your attraction. He's taking it to the extreme or really just not that into it but in general being busy and having a full life with limited free time is always more attractive than someone who's freely available.

You need to get out of this perfect Hollywood romance mindset in early dating. Something may develop into that eventually, but expecting relationshipy commitment from someone you barely know will always end badly.

eaglach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120018431#Comment_120018431

It sounds like you don't subscribe to the general views of if they flake once, then drop them. It's certainly not the norm from what I generally hear! Are you talking from experience?

You're probably right in a way. General dating advice seems to follow a set path and if it deviates from it then you're told you're with the wrong person. I'm sure there are plenty of successful dating stories where things didn't go according to plan at the start, or follow the Hollywood romance route as you say.

It's just hard to discern from when you should be more relaxed when dating or if it's a case that you shouldn't allow yourself to be lead on, walked over etc.

amdublin

Q. How many chances for a (this) flaky guy?

A. No more

In the early days, if someone flakes for one date I let it go. Any more (i.e. second flake), I figure he is "just not into me" and I let him go and I get back to the dating pool to identify a fella who IS into me and does not flake

Goodigal

In this case OP, I think he's had enough chances. You're worth more than that. I can't stand that feeling when you're looking forward to seeing someone and they disappoint you with feeble excuses. Don't give them the opportunity to do that again, and find someone who's on the same level of you - being open and honest about wanting to see them, and not flaking at the last minute with poor excuses. There are plenty more people out there to interact and have fun with. This guy's giving the impression he's too busy, so let him go!

Donald Trump

You never said your age OP

Actually nevermind. I see in your first post you are a fella. So it's probably not as much of an issue. I was going to say that if it was a younger girl not to worry that much about it but if she was older she might not want to be wasting her time.

TheadoreT

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120018722#Comment_120018722

I mean, you can grow on people. Is it easier with someone who has a stronger instant attraction to you- yes, but I wouldn't say there's zero hope here if you play it right. But as I said in this scenario he needs to be doing all the chasing for a while now or else just chalk it off as experience.

But date others in the meantime, getting 'oneitus' for someone can fool you into thinking they're more special than they are in reality. And you could meet someone better in the meantime.

bitofabind

I didn't even have the patience to get to the end of your post OP. The answer to how many chances is none, tbh. Not when they're not actively trying to recover from said flakiness by making it up to you and proactively scheduling the next date. Which yer man certainly isn't. He's off living his life and probably dating multiple other people while you're sitting here navel gazing over whether or not you've given up on the love of your life. The answer is a resounding no: he wasn't that bothered and has told you that loud and clear.

Now the next question to ask yourself is what kind of life do you want? What kind of partner are you looking for? Someone that is equally invested in the relationship and doesn't cause you this stress and anxiety after one date, or one who you can glide along with secure in the knowledge that you are both equally committed to one another. As humans we can get addicted to chaos for all sorts of reasons (familiar childhood pattern, low self esteem etc) and it can cause all types of problems in our personal lives - get to the root of that first before you get back on the dating bandwagon.