Can a man separated from his wife become a monk?

The Jammy dodger

Can you become a Catholic monk if separated?

Peregrinus

No. Monks must be unmarried.

Widowers do occasionally become monks. But, even then, they would have to have no family responsibilities — e.g. if they have children, the children must be grown up and established as independent adults.

harmless

The Roman Catholic Church does not recognise divorce. I doubt if separation is recognised either.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120012883#Comment_120012883

I don't think its a matter of the Catholic church "recognising" separation, whatever that means. The whole point about separation is that the couple are still married. They'll remain married until they divorce, or one of them dies. In the meantime, they're not free to do anything which would be inconsistent with the fact that they are married (like marrying someone else).

The Catholic church can recognise all that, and it still wouldn't imply that they can become monks. Monks are committed to the common life — they live in community with their fellow monks — and that's not consistent with the privileged, exclusive relationship with one other person that marriage involves. for the same reason somebody who has dependent children, even if unmarried, can't become a monk (or a nun); that's a relationship, and a resonsibility, that isn't consistent with the monastic commitment to living in community.

Christian traditions which embrace married priests - like the Orthodox churches - still don't allow married people to become monks or nuns.

Graces7

Not all monks and nuns live in community. Many Orders have Solitaries. ie full members in Life Vows but living apart.

They still are as you say fully committed to their Vows.

But no marrieds.... (There have been allowances mnade for "late vocations" where a man or woman whose spouse has died enters an Order. )

Especially nuns who are Brides of Christ.

There are some very fine Third Orders who include married folk. The Vows are different of course.

wotzgoingon

....

elperello

The answer to OP's question is no, the wife would have to be deceased.

I knew a man who was ordained after his wife died.

He moved to a different part of the country but by all accounts he made a very good priest.

elperello

Just had a second thought on the OP's query.

Would an annulment do the job?

I knew another Catholic man who got his marriage which produced 3 children annulled.

He re-married in an RC church.

joeguevara

The answer is that a married man can become a priest or a monk in particular circumstances. For example married Anglican priests can remain married if they convert to Catholicism. Equally the Vatican allows married men to remain as priests in Eastern. A monk is simply a man who joined another group of men with a vow of poverty and celibacy.

So if exceptions are allowed it’s not canon. The relevant part from the Second Nicene Council (787), Canon 20, reads:

‘If there are persons who wish to renounce the world and follow the monastic life along with their relatives, the men should go off to a male monastery and their wives enter a female monastery, for God is surely pleased with this.’

It would seem 1983 Can. 643 §1.2/ ("The following are admitted to the novitiate invalidly:…a spouse, while the marriage continues to exist;") or the corresponding 1917 Can. 542 1.° [d] abrogate the Second Nicene Council (787), Canon 20; but, as the commentary on the 1983 Code says,

if a couple mutually agrees to renounce marital rights and relationships in order to seek admission to religious institutes, a dispensation from the Holy See must be sought.

A famous recent example of a married couple separating—with the pope's permission, the husband becoming a priest, the wife becoming a nun, and their biological children going to boarding school—is that of Mother Cornelia Connelly(1809-1879), foundress of the Society of the Holy Child Jesus, a sort of modern-day St. Rita of Cascia. See The Life of Cornelia Connelly (1922) or this video documentary on her.

Thinkingaboutit

A Greek Catholic priest is normally expected to be married, married before ordination obviously, not just allowed to be married.

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032256#Comment_120032256

But it’s not an inherent law in the Catholic canon. Even Jesus view on celibacy in the bible was fudged at best. Also all of the apostles had wives and many had children. The policy around it crept in much later. We were taught that having intercourse which would be a requirement of a marriage makes the person unclean until they went to confession. And they are not allowed to say mass if they are unclean which they must do in a daily basis. So it kind of throws a spanner in the works but a Holy See dispensation is like a dose of antibiotics. Remedies the uncleanlinesses permanently and all systems go.

probablyunavailable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058276247/can-a-man-separated-from-his-wife-become-a-monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120031803#Comment_120031803

An annulment would appear to be the only option.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120031819#Comment_120031819

Not that recent an example, I think, given than Cornelia Connolly died more than 140 years ago.

The commentary on Canon 643 is well-spotted. But even if a dispensation is possible, I question whether it would be granted nowadays. There was a time when the religious life was regarded as a higher vocation than marriage and that, I suspect, was the context in which the like of Mother Connolly could obtain a dispensation. But that time is not now.

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058484#Comment_120058484

I think the purpose for my post was that it’s not an all out ban and not the black and white no that everyone was saying.

Peregrinus

That's true, but I think it's as close to an all-out ban as you can get in the Catholic church. Canon law forbids this. It's always possible that a dispensation can get around the prohibition, but that's true of every single rule of Canon law — the Pope, as legislator, can grant a dispensation from rules that the Pope, as legislator, has made. I think that the chances of the Pope actually doing this, though, in the present time are close to nil.

elperello

Thanks for some interesting info in the posts in the thread.

Not being RC I know little of Canon Law.

So before we leave this subject is the general consensus that annulment of the marriage is the only practical route for married man wishing to become a monk?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120063780#Comment_120063780

Yes. And, even then, there would also have to be no residual responsibilities associated with the annulled marriage - e.g. if the man had dependent children for whom he needed to care and provide, or if he had (under civil law) a maintenance obligation to his wife, he couldn't become a monk.

AndrewJRenko

Do all the monk communities strictly enforce these rules. Could you find yourself living in one of these communities as a separated man, even if not strictly qualifying as a monk?

Peregrinus

As a guest, certainly; some monastic communities make a point of providing hospitality. But you couldn't be a member of the community; the community is defined by vows, and they take this pretty seriously.

There are various lay movements within the Catholic church that are open to both married and single people, and some of these operated shared houses where members may live (though I think, for most communities, most members live in their own homes). Presumably there wouldn't be any fundamental objection to a separated person participating in these communities.

studefromtrinners

Year's ago I did a stint with the monks myself, I'm not religious or spiritual but I enjoyed the solitude and was looking after the grounds. Needed time out just to reflect on my past and make myself a better person.

They helped me out, not through prayer or anything but gave me responsibly and a roof over my head. And I think a lot of men need time out from the world. Long ago a lot of men went to war, hunting etc , emigrated or worked away from the family.

Some men are lucky to have the option for time out, zero worldly attachments are obviously an advantage.

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120062989#Comment_120062989

Peregrinus, I really value your opinion specifically on areas of law on many different forums and topics and I broadly agree with you here with a couple of caveats. The query (and in indeed an interesting one) raised by the OP was could it happen. As shown it can, but only by dispensation which I agree is not likely or indeed rare but can and does happen as shown. I don’t recollect the op giving particular circumstances rather an open question.

But, this is where I’d like you to further consider your thesis as I believe your characterisation of canon law doesn’t differentiate the two sources of it. Firstly divine law coming from Christ which can’t be changed and second coming from ecclesiastical laws created by human authority which can. The situation posed is legislated by the latter meaning it’s not unchanging. So I believe the answer to the question is ‘yes it’s possible, depending on the situation, unlikely at present but could be a fundamental change in the future which based on canon law is possible.

but that opinion is based on admittedly only my research into canon law which is in no way comparable to yours.

Peregrinus

Absolutely canon law can be, and is, changed. But, when people post on the motoring forum to ask "would someone be permitted to drive at 150 km/hr on a suburban street, if there is no other traffic around?", they don't want to be told "Yes, because the Oireachtas could legislate to allow this".

So the answer to the OP's question is "In the current state of canon law, no, not without a dispensation from Rome. And a dispensation from Rome is unlikely to be granted."

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067500#Comment_120067500

These are the "third orders" and serve the Church well within that discipline. I involved for many years also as a staff member in a Retreat House owned and run by a C of E Order of Nuns. There are many ways within the various disciplines to serve, as was the case with the first disciples. Each and all have gifts.

Thinkingaboutit

The late Roman / Byzantine era had a few examples of failed usurpers or would be usurpers forcibly consecrated as bishops necessitating separation from spouse, and if a married man was elected, the usual custom was that the man and wife live as brother and sister, although some like Synesius of Cyrene, Roman gentleman, government official and correspondent with all who counted like Hypatia of Alexandria and assorted governors and generals, on being chosen as bishop of Ptolemais, told his faithful he would do no such thing and continue his beloved hunting and also rejected some basic doctrines like bodily resurrection on the Last Day (I think).

Seriously, a tertiary is an excellent route for a man separated from his wife seeking to deepen his faith. Dominicans, Franciscans, Oratorians, even the SSPX have tertiaries.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358764#Comment_120358764

Yes indeed.. No waste within the Church! We can all serve in our different ways... a divine economy. Jesus uses all our skills