If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact [email protected]

Global coal burning reaches all time high in 2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭DC999

    Yeah, really scary. And UK are opening a mine for first time in 30 years “steel smelting”. But only 1 (of the 3 or 4) steel plants in the UK say they can use it due to high sulphur content afaik. Means it’s unsuitable for that usage.

    Tbh, I think they are doing it to get under the radar to ‘save our steel jobs’ but fully plan to sell overseas. There won’t be a steel market to use it basically. Selling overseas means their grid remains clean but push the problem elsewhere. And they plan to turn it off in 2049 before they hit their paper targets for 2050. Do they really think people believe they will only run it for maybe 15years (from when it's ready) and then decide to close it?

    If 1st world nations are being so hypocritical and blind, how in gods name can developing countries aspire to having clean fuel (and that’s where the huge population of people are). 

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭bladespin

    Don't understand the surprise, it definitely looks like the lore reliable fuel at the moment given the crazy fluctuations in other sources.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭DC999

    We’re gonna need sooooo much power as we electrify a much as we can. And challenge is how can every grid in every country do that.

    On a micro scale, would be amazing to see a real push to mount solar on every (feasible) State owned roof / school. Subside the crap out of it, even scouts dens / community halls with large roofs all feeding into the grid. Ok, output is muck at certain times of the year. But at least the dirtier plants only need to come online for winter. Plus scramble for other renewables too. 

  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 10,357 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    Fan f**king tastic 😫

    I'm not at all surprised, coal has been under pressure from cheap gas for years

    Expensive gas + a sudden need to get away from one of the biggest suppliers + the total inability of any government or corporate entity to think more than 5 mins ahead means we're suddenly back on coal

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭bladespin

    Excellent comment, tbh the government need to stop pushing the issues onto the general public and start with the state itself, lead by example. Granting everything that's shiny and new only drives prices up and puts the average person off.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭tom1ie

    With gas prices high coal is the alternative power generator when the wind isn’t blowing- which happens quite often unfortunately.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,431 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld

    People are going to have to consume a lot less to get off coal etc and unto renewables.

    The first world is addicted to consumption and is selling the same dream to the rest of the world.

    Also, a lot of the popular religions have a meaty end of days chapter in their books. And their followers are getting impatient.

    So, it's a win win.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 10,357 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    Easy Sh!tty short term solution

    Fixed that for you 😉

    I get what you mean though, gas isn't as cheap or available as before and there's a bunch of coal power plants and mines that can just be switched on to cope with the shortfall

    It's still pretty unbelievable that we're in this position. Too many years of politicians and energy companies getting drunk off cheap gas from Russia

    I was watching an interview with Ian Hislop recently and he nailed it perfectly when he described the collective delusion regarding the response to the Russian government's various aggressions over the years. After Crimea, it's hard to believe that European governments weren't saying to themselves "these lads aren't exactly being friendly and we're dependant on them for energy, maybe we should build up some domestic production"

    Over the past 8 years we should have been installing as many wind and solar farms as possible, interconnecting grids and expanding pumped hydro and battery storage and looking at biogas, biomass and hydrogen production

    But no, we've had the standard do nothing response from governments, leave to the market which has now decided coal is great and we all get to suffer the consequences

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld

    Sure weren't we busy with Covid and Brexit and pumping up house prices.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭tom1ie

    What’s the alternative to fossil fuels when the wind doesn’t blow for a couple of weeks in the depths of winter?

    There isn’t one unless you go nuclear fission which comes with its own baggage.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,357 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    There's renewable biomass, biogas or green hydrogen, or nuclear

    They all come with their own baggage I'll agree, but I'd say they're a lot better than just digging up coal or other fossil fuels

    The thing with biomass and biogas in particular to Ireland is that we've a lot of potential for producing fuel domestically, they're pretty easy to scale up (biogas digesters are literally just a tank of water and plant/animal waste) and can be stored

    So we can build up a fuel supply over the summer months when there's plenty of solar and wind to meet demand and use the stored fuel in winter

    In my view nuclear is a waste of money for new plants. They can be reasonably cheap when built to a certain scale, but they don't work for Ireland.

    I've no issues with current nuclear plants staying in use if the alternative if coal or gas, but the economics of new plants seems pretty dubious

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,949 ✭✭✭✭ELM327

    110%, but our stupid bumpkins will never allow it. We should be leading the world in self sufficient energy. We have sufficient solar energy potential with excellent wind and wave energy options, and the potential for nuclear too. We could literally power everything on the island ourselves with zero imported fuel.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,466 ✭✭✭✭josip

    Latest stats from the IEA for Q1-Q3 2022. Coal is down 3% in the OECD.

    Over the first three quarters of 2022, total electricity production increased by 1.8% or 146.5 TWh compared to the first three quarters of 2021.

    Electricity production from renewables was responsible for most of the growth in electricity generation in September 2022 (+6.5% or 165.7 TWh y-t-d), driven by strong wind and solar output, respectively up by 16.1% and 21.1% on a year-to-date basis. This growth compensated the negative trend witnessed by hydro, amounting to a loss of 31.4 TWh (-2.7% y-t-d) compared to the same period of 2021.

    Nuclear electricity production in the OECD decreased by 5.6% or 75.7 TWh y-t-d in September 2022, essentially because of reduced nuclear output in the OECD Europe region. In particular, France and Germany’s nuclear power output respectively decreased by 22.0% y-t-d and 49.8% y-t-d.

    Electricity production from fossil fuels was fairly stable at 492.6 TWh in September 2022, slightly up by 0.9% compared to the same month last year. In the first three quarters of 2022, production from coal decreased by 3.0% or 48.8 TWh y-t-d, mainly driven by a lower output in the OECD Americas (-9.0% y-t-d), and only partly compensated by a higher output in OECD Europe (+ 7.0% y-t-d). Electricity production from natural gas went up by 4.7% or 109.7 TWh y-t-d, with a positive trend being registered in all OECD regions.

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,949 ✭✭✭✭ELM327

    That will change though going forward as theres likely to be a sharp drop in imports of gas and oil from Russia early next year.

    If I were in charge of this I'd do the same, coal now, but speed up planning for nuclear, wind, wave and solar powerplants.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭DC999

    Fair comment!! Was watching some stuff on that recently. Some in the industry think that’s many, many decades away. They said it’s nonsense talk we’ll see it working commercially in 10 years some predict. At mo the test ones use more energy than they create (so we’d lose energy to use them). And walls of the reactor needs to get partially replaced every few months. So no one knows how that would happen I expect on a commercial scale. Plus needs downtime. Seems the radiation only lasts decades, which is amazing compared to existing nuclear plants. And can’t produce a radiation explosion & from that a huge leak like existing ones – don’t ask me how.

    But it’s not ‘knocking at the door’ in terms of being available soon it seems.

    Sadly the world will need more nuclear to increase output and remove the coal and other dirty plants. It's very predictable, though not inexpensive or without risk.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger

    I'd also get in behind the nuclear thing. 25 years ago I was pretty anti-nuke, but when you look at the science and actual data regarding safety and waste management, it really has been tarnished badly by 3 mile island, Chernobyl, etc. Sure running on renewables with storage is the ideal scenario, but nuclear can take that 30% base load that never goes away very admirably. People need to "get over themselves" and look at the science.

    I would however disagree that governments have been slow over the last decade in getting off Russian gas. Sure, looking back in retrospect it's easy to say "we should have done this, or that", but the reality is that these large scale infrastructure changes require significant investment in countries (limited) resources. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge believer in investing (borrowing if needed) for large scale infra, but it's a very hard "sell" to the populous of a country that

    "we can't build a new childrens' hospital cause we're putting in a 400Kva line to the north, etc"

    It just doesn't win votes. Sad reality.

  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 28,551 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78

    nope, we just decided to largely ignore warnings for decades, so here we are, in deep sh1t!

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭tom1ie

    Green hydrogen does not exist as grid storage anywhere in the world so is not an option at the moment.

    How much renewable biomass can be grown without taking away from existing agriculture practices? How much would we need as an alternative to fossil fuels?

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,415 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui

    No, I think you'll find that we are more addicted to keeping warm and having a reliable electricity supply than anything else.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭DC999

    Renewable wise, there is tidal which is very predictable – twice a day every 6 hours. But nothing at scale that I've seen from reading around. Seems a lot of protype stuff from small companies at mo. I read that tidal only gets something like 1euro investment for every 20 on solar / wind / other renewables. Basically it’s no funding so no companies are doing R&D bar small operators. Industry are calling on govs to start investing so companies can start to build the equipment and refine it.

    Different types of tidal need certain conditions. Some need large bays like Cork harbour where a very large volume of water goes in and out. And tide height matters too (differs by area). So it’s hard to find those locations - like finding a suitable site for hydro (in the mountains, with a water source, close to a population center)

    Others can plonk anywhere and change direction when tide changes. Can add heaps of them it seems.  

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld

  • Registered Users Posts: 28,551 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78

    sex is apparently on the decline, apparently....

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld

    Too cold for sex. Also everyone is online. 🤣

    Hibernation will become popular during the cold months

  • Registered Users Posts: 28,551 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78 sure theres some interesting studies out there on why, must look into it, for science of course....

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld

    Plenty of stuff online. Very little of it based on science. 🤣

  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 35,123 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde

    Sweden burn garbage, instead of coal, where they can. Ireland is starting to do more and more of this, SRF Waste,