The JC survey - its all good

Bobtheman

Supposedly a survey was carried out where all teachers or a sizeable majority thought the JC a good idea. We are all working together. Students are more engaged in their work

I have never met a teacher who likes the JC. Is it like FF and the tories?A lot of people never claimed to vote for them but somehow they got 40%??!!

History Queen

Is this the UL survey which, if memory serves had at least one person involved in it who was also either part of the JCT or initially involved in the design of the whole sorry mess? I'll hunt for a link, it was the ASTI I think that raised it as a concern.

History Queen

Here's a reference to what I was talking about

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/teachers-union-asti-accused-of-trying-to-compromise-integrity-of-junior-cert-study-42051354.html

Bobtheman

It would not matter if they didn't have someone with a possible moral hazard attached. The NCCA has fixed research before. I heard it direct from someone employed as a contractor who was let go when data she came up with pointed the " wrong way"

Bobtheman

We saw the same pattern with PISA results about 8 years ago. When it was emphasised that schools were to take them seriously lo and behold the test results went up... Literacy and Quinns strategy was barely 2 years old.

am_zarathustra

Ive rarely met a teacher in support of the new JC, and I've rarely heard of anything as poorly spoken about as the JCT, I'd be embarrassed to work for them.

2011abc

Dumbed down nonsense .God help us when they do same to LC .Last ‘inservice ‘ had some young fella reading from a script .

Dickie10

there going to have to dumb down the leaving cert now because the gap you have to bridgein geography and history has become massive gulf now

History Queen

I can honestly say that those JCT inservice days were the greatest waste of time that I've ever had the displeasure to have to endure. Badly designed, implemented and presented, it is mind boggling that they continue to try peddle the lie that it is a success. I have no problem admiting that there is some merit in it, for example English CBA1 to me is a worthy exercise,but no more worthy than my students presentations and projects were prior to the junior cycle, and realistically it's worth exactly as much as those class projects and presentations were worth.

The JCT really lost teachers when they condescended down to us with post it notes and colouring in. What a bloody ineffectual waste of time.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058275874/the-jc-survey-its-all-good

Would be interesting to know sample size, what teachers got it, how leading were questions and what safeguards were in place to ensure data not manipulated or misrepresented etc etc

This might be naive but would it be that hard to give the majority of second level teachers in the country the opportunity to fill out such a survey?

And if it's possible (online survey distributed via email) and it didn't happen then why would be my first question?

What's good for the goose, partnership etc

(I personally haven't heard any former colleagues mention doing such a survey, I must ask)

maude6868

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001953#Comment_120001953

I filled it in. It came as an email. I normally don't bother too much with surveys but I wanted to voice my absolute disdain at the changes that have been brought about and my concern for the education of our youth because this JC is doing them a huge disservice and somewhere along the line we will have to revert to the tried, tested and successful traditional methods of teaching. I'm just grateful my children are educated already. At this stage I would say the old Inter Cert is Higher Level Leaving Cert standard.

Icsics

We’ve warned for years about the joke of a JC. Covid postponed it twice so I think some parents were slow to catch on. But the results this year were a shambles, the bands are too wide & we’ve very able students getting more or less the same as the less able. It’s a disgrace, but the Dept Will plough on into LC, which for sure will be dismantled

EAD

I did Yeats' 'Easter 1916' for my Inter Cert and loved it - it's now on the LC and many students struggle with it despite all our engaging and interesting teaching methodologies!

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005155#Comment_120005155

Whatever about the junior cycle I think the main opponents of a Leaving Cycle won't be teachers, it'll be third level colleges. Nobody really listens to teachers anyhow unless we threaten to strike, but getting to Travers 2 last time with the JC took a lot of pain. I certainly don't have the fight in me anymore, if they want me to teach the hokey pokey for leaving cert I'll do it and collect the same paycheck.

It'll all come out in the wash anyway when the Leaving Cycle students are unfit to cope with third level demands. No doubt second level teachers will be blamed but meh, what else is new.

Bobtheman

Personally I think the LC should be modular with assignments sent away.

With English it's archaic to expect kids to just write say a personal essay in 80 minutes from a title they just saw

I'm not in favour of teachers correcting their own students work. If they paid properly it would facilitate sending scripts away through out the year.

Do I see any of the above happening?

I sooner expect the second coming of Jesus

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009337#Comment_120009337

Anything that costs money will not be done

French Toast

The new JC is very, very poor. Comes across as having been cobbled together by people who have Masters and PhDs coming out their ears but haven't spent a month in the classroom teaching.

If it's a sign of what's coming down the line in LC, we're headed for very choppy waters indeed.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120014545#Comment_120014545

Would make one question the value of Masters and PhDs in certain areas

I've often thought that a good chunk of what I read is just ever more sophisticated ways of saying things the dogs o n the street know while ignoring practicaloties/realities in relation to implementation.

Bobtheman

The big gap in English is that there is no full essay component. Thus a student arrives in at 15/16-two years to show them how to write an essay plus the knowledge etc.

Even if they focused on a proper paragraph with a topic sentence it would be a start.

But instead it's a complete roulette wheel of an exam

French Toast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120015257#Comment_120015257

Similar story in Irish. In 2012 they made the oral at LC worth 40%, great move imo. Just a few years later they scrap the optional oral at JC.

No sense of continuity at all.

Bobtheman

I suspect the education system is mainly designed to spin wheels. We have enough bright students to fill the essential services or we can import for gaps. Thus it's largely a make work scheme.

History Queen

I completed the survey also. I'm almost certain, from a link on twitter.

It'll be interesting to see what they present in the refurbishment of the senior cycle. Given that English teachers (and Irish teachers I think?) still have no idea what sort of paper next years 5th years will be looking at next Christmas, (a decison made on a bloody whim) and there isn't a whisper about CPD or even a circular regarding it, I won't hold my breath that any reasonable level of forward planning or consideration will be given to any subject.

maynooth_rules

From the JCT in-services I have been to, it seems the facilitators are only in it for career progression. It's a struggle to believe any of them really think that this benefits students. There are merits in the CBA, but speaking from as a History teacher, the exam paper is a shambles.

We have gone from a power that gave students a chance to really show off their knowledge. Q1 picture, Q2 document, Q3, 20 short questions from whole course, Q4. People in history questions, Q5 longer document from 2nd year course, Q6 longer style answers.

There was choice and knowledge got rewarded.

Now we have a paper which is essentially 8 comprehension question (from last year's power, 45% or the history JC questions were basic comprehension questions where the answer was in text or picture). No options, no choice anywhere. Students cover close to 35 chapters in history, so a good 27 of them are of no use in exam.

There is barely anywhere in the exam for students who have really put in the work to show off their knowledge.

Then you have the horrific banding of results, where a student who gets 55% is treats the same as one that gets 74%. It's utterly wrong and penalising hard work. Distinctions are as rare as hens teeth, yet 15% or history students used to achieve an A in the old layout.

I am disgusted what has been allowed to happen to a subject that I love. The course is still generally fine, the exam is a disgrace to education.

Rosita

I saw one of the JC History mock papers recently. One question gives a list of years between 1916 and 1923 with various incidents in the Revolution described in the relevant box. The "question" is to draw an arrow from each box to the year written on a 'timeline' on the page. It's Primary school First Class standard.

Those who object to these pesky memory tests in exams will be delighted but it is cringey to look at it. As someone said much of the new JC is basic comprehension (enough to pass the exam) which means the ability to get through the exam without actually knowing very much is a very real prospect. But this question was utterly taking the p*ss. But it strange how they make it nearly impossible to not pass the exam but likewise it's nearly impossible to get a top grade either.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039984#Comment_120039984

They didn't like too much fine detail in the bell curve and thought it would be better if it was a bell bar chart with three bars but you can really only see the central bar.

Its much easier and less costly from an admin point of view and I'd surmise and there can be less bleating about exclusion and stress if everyone gets a rubber medal............... and then when people start moaning about this it will graduate towards what it was before......I think a lot of it is change for the sake of change driven initially by cost cutting but now developing a momentum of its own.

Dickie10

I have to thoroughly agree with the last few posters on the JC History. I burst a gut for 3 years with a very mixed class of really interested students and some very weak and the odd apathetic student. I put a lot of work into making the classes as intersting as i could and still covering all the knowledge , it was a mammoth course to cover i found. But our school still decided on doing the course old style to cover our asses. doing the romans and middle ages is now i find time waste, they only need one or the other. i wuldnt bother with romans again personally. Middle ages has plenty of interesting things, also only 2 revolutions needed. i wouldnt do american revolution again. i really think this needs to be said by the JCT. I also think we might need to cover ww1 if were expected to cover ww2. surely one cant happen without the other.