Public v Private Sector IT Role

NowConfusedAgain

Hi All,

I am considering applying for a public sector IT role but am hesitant as to how the role will be day to day as well as the fact it would entail a not insignificant drop in salary.

Is it typical for public sector salaries to be less than private sector and typically do other benefits offset this?

Also, can any boardies offer insight into how a public sector IT role compares to a private sector one.

NowConfusedAgain

IT roles, in public sector, are overpaid at entry and vastly underpaid once rank up.

There's security and work/life balance benefit but you pay a fortune for that. You can lose 40-50% of your salary to go public before factoring in the fact that you get no bonuses, car, healthcare etc

You get 30 days annual leave, paid sick, steady hours, and flexible work patterns. Stress can be less but generally very understaffed.

You're classed a glorified clerical on payroll, they've not even bothered to give IT its own designation.

Makes it very hard to recruit people and, when you do, they MUST start at the lowest pay for that grade.

RainInSummer

Massive hit in salary v private sector, and that fancy pension at the end of it all is no longer as tasty as it once was.

I'd avoid to be honest. There's a lot of tech companies out there that treat their employees very well in terms of pay and benefits. You can find ones that better the public sector in terms of work/life balance.

Worst pay and conditions of my life were in the public sector. Never again.

That pension is not great actually.

You "get" a state pension but that exact amount is deducted from your own pension. Given that you can guarantee being underpaid, the pension is low to begin with

Flinty997

I agree with all the other comments.

I'd only join if you need the better work life balance which people often do if they have other commitments outside of work. Or want to work less hours.

Tech companies generally have comparable pensions. You generally work longer hours and have more deadlines. So that's really the trade off.

I preferred working in the private sector personally.

FazyLucker

With everybody above. Have seen the semi state and private sector sides and worked as contracting in the public sector.

If you want job security, steady hours, less stress, etc then you'll get on grand in the public sector.

But, you'll find yourself in 5-10 years having had a small increment each year, and not gained massively in terms of experience and knowledge versus your compatriots.

In the public sector, a huge amount of the "real value" work is and always will be done by consultancies such as Accenture, Version1, etc and you will find yourself managing these people eventually. The problem is, management in the public sector want somebody to beat with a stick if things go tits up and will be too risk averse for the most part to allow internal staff to do the risky/high value work. I saw this very thing in a public sector department when I was a contractor. Plus some of the good people in that public sector department knew there was no point working too hard because Paddy and Mary were ahead of them for promotion and there was nothing they could do to move up the ranks faster.

For me, if you are in IT then the private sector is the only show in town.

You will also find that for all the talk of the great public sector pension there are employers matching 10 (and even 12% in a couple of cases) contributions. Work out 20% of your expected salary when you get to the top and see what your pension pot tallies to. I know it is not guaranteed but it will fluctuate over time in to a decent pension pot.

You will definitely work harder in the private sector but the rewards are better if you want to work hard enough.

I am absolutely not trying to spark a tedious public v private sector debate here (there are advantages to both), this is how I have seen it.

Flinty997

I'd also much of the value in the public sector pension is if you do the full tenure of service, 40yr or so. if you join and get half that, the pension is obviously much reduced. (buying back years is too expensive) So you'll have to boost it with private pension. Which you could to in the private sector anyway.

Having less hours and flexible working especially around childcare and such is well worth it. its just not everything. I'd say its more attractive to older people wanting to get out of the rat race.

Daith

Agree with this tbh. I don't work in civil service but public service (same rules pretty much).

The lack of a specific grade for IT people is one thing. You could be the world's best programmer or whatever but you'll need to be classed as a manager at AP level and above and that might not happen.

Don't discount the work life balance though. I've worked probably about 5 weekends in 9 years. It's what you want to get out of it I guess

NowConfusedAgain

Thanks all,

It is job security and the Pension which are my main drivers for considering the switch as I feel we may have some very challenging years ahead.

In terms of my current role I have 20+ years experience, a good pension I believe where they match 10% and a good work life balance which is why I am hesitant to switch but also feel I would like a change after an extended period with one company.

NowConfusedAgain

MarkR

I may be in the minority, but i'm in an IT role in the public sector, but not in the IT division. Kind of "the tech guy" for a small division, managing projects and systems. Joined 4 years ago and I think it worked out well for me. Work life balance is great. No longer in a 365 support environment.

If the role is interesting, no harm in looking into it. It's public sector, not servitude, so you can always move on! 😁

Daith

Exactly, you can always move. Tbh I've probably become lazy in the role by not looking for private sector jobs.

Sounds like you have a decent job though. Not sure of your salary range of course, but be aware you may/probably will have to start at the first point on the scale of the role

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120004241#Comment_120004241

What exactly is it about the pension that you think is so good? Do you genuinely know what the pension works out as?

Honestly, you'd be crazy to switch imo. IT is definitely one of the sectors it simply isn't worth it. Also, I don't know what your wfh situation is but you could end up in the office far more often in the Civil Service.

FazyLucker

Sounds like you have a decent setup OP, 10% matching pension contribution is really good and will leave you with a very good pension pot. And if you are good your salary will increase quicker than the public sector increment (don't underestimate how poor and slow salary increases are) so that 10% will keep growing. As I said before, I know it is not guaranteed but unless you do full term in the public sector your pension won't be great.

I know people talk about a few hard years etc but we've had a covid pandemic and a year of war and still there are thousands of IT jobs out there even if a handful of high profile companies are realising they are over subscribed.

I agree with Augme I think you would be mad to move unless you can get a significant salary jump and your working conditions at the moment are really crap and you are being worked to the bone.

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120004241#Comment_120004241

Your current pension is probably a lot better than a public sector one. Public sector pension not what it used to be and I'm pumping into an AVC to try and bring it up.

Security and work life balance is the ticket though and what made me switch from private to public. I would never go back to private after 4 years in public. I don't even miss the money I lost anymore. There's more to life than money

Daith

I really have to look at AVC. I'll probably end up with 35 years public if I don't move.

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120004241#Comment_120004241

Job security cant be that much of an issue if you have 20+ years experience?

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008075#Comment_120008075

Assuming it is reasonably well rounded experience.

purifol0

The salaries for IT in the public sector are all over the shop. Main reason is that there isn't a public sector union for them, hence no political pressure can be applied unlike the hundreds of thousands in the INMO and Teachers unions. Yes that many, as they allow retirees as members - good for increasing their pensions long after they retire!

The holidays are far better than the private sector and hours and workload are usually very low, might be a benefit if you need a work life balance as a primary parent or similar but the massive underpayment in some areas is so jarring Im sometimes surprised they get any CV's at all.

Prison service currently offering 33K to 56K over 15 years! For candidates with a degree plus certs....LOL.

Might be ok if you can live way out in the country but for Dublin it isn't liveable unless you are Ok staying with the folks for an extra decade.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008075#Comment_120008075

It's not just the public service that has this problem private sector also has but it's far worse in the public.

Lots of legacy systems old frameworks and being silo'd on monolithic systems. It's very hard to get someone new to take on a legacy system to release existing staff for new projects. But new staff or contractors get the new projects because they are current in the new stack. Very hard to change that narrative.

Never be too good at a job (or project) you don't want. Ignore that at your peril in IT.

Daith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008230#Comment_120008230

I'd say the bigger issue is the lack of a specific grade for IT people. It doesn't really align to the CO/EO/HEO/AP etc. I mean it can kinda, but it doesn't help in attracting talent and also means it values standard civil service skills over specific IT skills

I mean they tried to advertise a Director of National IT Security at like AP grade and wondered they didn't get a lot of candidates.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008312#Comment_120008312

That role was at PO grade.

Flinty997

Agree 100% with the lack of technical grade structure. Also with undervaluing of technical IT skills.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008312#Comment_120008312

"also means it values standard civil service skills over specific IT skills". Real talk. The pen pushers have been softwared out of existance in the private sector. Yet the civil service still hires clerical officers. Whats damning is that I bought car last year and had to physically fill in & post off the log book FFS. That's public sector job security for you, and another reason to detest paying taxes.

Daith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008357#Comment_120008357

Fine, but even then compared to the private sector it was a much lower salary for a senior IT security role. Which is why they ended up re advertising it at a higher scale.

It went from €89k to €184k or PO to Dep Sec Gen or whatever.

Though I suspect the ability to outsource IT in various forms has probably meant the CS is able to keep the grades as is.

purifol0

Lads that advertised role was bollocks. The gov had an crisis and so its knee jerk reaction was this position. Once the HSE hack was off the headlines the whole "reformation of public sector cyber security" was back-burnered.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008447#Comment_120008447

Tusla spun up an inhouse cybersecurity team on the back of that.

They've struggled to fill roles due to pay limitations

If you want to sit tight in a secure job for a few years, it's an ok decision to make.

For me, the tech used would be a major factor - will you in 5 years time still be using the same ancient languages and systems and find it hard to get into another job, or will you get a chance to get into new stuff like cloud tech ?

Daith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008470#Comment_120008470

Yeah was thinking of those roles. I guess it's probably easier to just outsource to a managed SOC for most public sector orgs.

And outsourcing is completely valid, but again means IT and the public sector has a tricky relationship.

Flinty997

Its a fine line, turning down work in old tech and being able to cherry pick just the new stuff.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008470#Comment_120008470

Plus their cyber security/ network security are tiny and not experienced.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008487#Comment_120008487

Tech isn't just programming.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008487#Comment_120008487

You're far more likely to find old, outdated tech in banks and insurance companies than in public sector.

BalboBiggins

Has there been any official decision on permanent WFH in public sector?

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008803#Comment_120008803

Nope. Depends on the director.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008694#Comment_120008694

AIB has been spending huge sums to try to update

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008803#Comment_120008803

There is a broad policy from DPER, and most Departments have their own policies, usually requiring people to be in the office for two or three days each week. But it all depends on the organisation and indeed the requirements of the specific role.

NowConfusedAgain

Thanks all for the detail and advise. It gives me lots to think about.

In terms of tech I understand it will be new tech and should therefore align pretty well with my current role including WFH options.

I do feel I would like a change, these public sector jobs do not come up often and also there would be some satisfaction in helping in the public sector.

That being said salary is a big hurdle as the starting level for the grade is less than my current salary and is why I was hoping the pension would offset this but from my calculations using the calculator on the estimator tool it is unlikely I would be better off than my current scheme.

singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/for-members/scheme-information/single-scheme-estimator-tool/

Daith

Thanks for giving us an opportunity to rant about IT in the public sector. Best of luck with whatever you do

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008583#Comment_120008583

Good to know, thanks for the heads-up </sarcasm>

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008694#Comment_120008694

Maybe, maybe not. I'm currently using mongodb in a bank for example. Still, it's a valid thing for the OP to consider, no ?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009593#Comment_120009593

Here’s a perspective on legacy systems in the banking sector

https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2021/05/cobol-jobs-banks

What particular outdated public sector systems or organisations did you have in mind?

Flinty997

I think as an IT person if you not getting opportunity to work in the tech you want to be in after 6-12 months it's not going to get better with time. You need jump ship to the tech you want as soon as possible. The longer you stay the more you fall behind.

So if you join the public sector (or private) you need to give yourself objectives and hard timelines. If they are not met then leave. It's something I've not always done to my own detriment.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009593#Comment_120009593

I bet the actual ACID transactional stuff with people's money does not happen on mongodb.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009633#Comment_120009633

So ? Totally irrelevant to the conversation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009622#Comment_120009622

I'm not sure where you're going with this tbh. If you're looking a big public v private argument you're replying to the wrong bloke because I couldn't give a stuff who I work for as long as I'm paid.

All I was doing was advising the OP to check what tech he is likely to be using so he isn't stuck in legacy stuff in 5 years, I don't think I could have said anything less controversial if I'd tried.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009678#Comment_120009678

Depends 🤣

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009622#Comment_120009622

We've only just retired the last of our cobol (ish) systems. Much of it was limping along on hardware that we hadn't been able to buy parts for, in years. All the domain knowledge has long retired.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009588#Comment_120009588

Seriously? What's your point?

Not everyone is technically inclined. It's a huge field of experience.

Add something. What's your knowledge base? Give advice as opposed to sarcasm.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009689#Comment_120009689

Not looking for argument at all. Just making it clear that dated technology is certainly not unique to public sector. I know Courts Service are going through a big redevelopment to get rid of some dated systems, I'm sure there are probably some others out there, maybe in parts of Revenue or DSP or Agriculture, but those departments are also at the leading edge of IT developments in some areas.

You're unlikely to get stuck in an area you don't like, given all the mobility options with the Civil Service now. It's not that hard to move around, though it can take a little time.

Flinty997

Well he said public not civil service. Which isn't always the same.

I think we can agree there's a lot variety in terms of legacy stuff in this sector.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008694#Comment_120008694

Used to work for BOI...can confirm that is true.

Old tech, held together by string for key systems.

OP there is a lot of good info on this thread tbh. If you are ambitious and talented in all honesty the private sector might be a better fit, especially if you want to make big bucks. The CS/PS is extremely restrictive when it comes to pay and grades. Recruiting in good talent is tough given these restrictive grades imo.

Of course there are benefits, work life balance, leave, sick pay etc. I now make a decent wage as an AP (but I wasn't making far off it 15 years ago in the private sector! With a lot of stress), but I started as a CO and you can work your way up. Oh I can also WFH any time (which is pretty much all the time) but this varies massively by department.