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€1,350/cow payment to cut suckler numbers

  • 04-12-2022 12:52pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭


    idk is €1350 going to be enough to persuade me to cut numbers as it seems that once you take the money you cannot increase other beef operations. Also I don't think a one off payment would be enough, surly they would have to support the farmer for a few years after.

    There really is a big push on to change Farming, between the increased Organics payments, higher forestry payments, AgroForestry and now this is coming down the line. For years there was always a level of penny pinching from the dept and Government towards funding, What is really driving this push, and where are they getting the money from?



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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,559 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    I wouldn't be surprised if the money is coming from the organic budget, they have 256m to spend. Might be a good time for sucklers to go organic, cut cow numbers by 30% and collect this as well. AFAIK suckler cow numbers have already dropped by 3-400,000. We'll soon have land being abandoned altogether, I bet the crowd that want to bring back wolves are behind this.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭Silverdream


    lol bring back the wolves

    jezz what next from this people, its like everything plough on until you hit a big rock. I can see the day when this country is no longer a net food exporter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭JohnChadwick


    Don't know the length of the contract period is, but if it comes in think I'd probably take 1350 to cut Suckler cows in half and change system slightly to bring weanlings nearer to the 'finished' stage.

    Diversifying into agroforestry appeals to me anyway, as does organics which I'm already in.

    Obvious that it's brought in to decarbonise agriculture, dunno whether money comes from eu or what.



  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭Silverdream


    But will you be allowed to do that, from the reports it seems that they are looking to cut without increasing production elsewhere. Keeping Weanlens longer would be seen as that. They know month to month what animals you've always kept, every move we've made over the last 15 years has been recorded and logged in some database.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭weatherbyfoxer


    It clearly states the option of developing of none breeding beef enterprises as an alternative to suckler cows,personally I can't see much of a problem with it. It will be a lump of money to change into a different enterprise that could be more profitable



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,709 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    It doesn't say you can't cut suckler numbers and increase dairy (for the remaining numbers that have both!)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,061 ✭✭✭Grueller




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,709 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Well I'm only going on the language in the article. Which says it can be replaced by other "non-breeding beef or sheep enterprises". Although it is confusing as it gives a separate definition further down


    There are beef schemes that dairy farmers cannot apply for at the minute. So dairy =/= beef for some purposes.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,507 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    The money available for all these schemes is pennies in this day and age. Govt have money to burn on anything that catches their eye. This is always the case for Govt projects, even during official recessions - they just cut health and education spending to fund whatever else they want to do.

    In the agriculture case, Govt and senior civil servants want to move away from what they see as a third-world industry, the type of thing that poor and underdeveloped countries could do - not what modern, developed, sophisticated, educated, etc. countries like Ireland do.

    That’s the narrative. And it makes sense if you’re living in that Dublin political/media bubble. All the political parties believe this, not just the Greens.

    What they will slowly realise, probably over the next decade is that rural Ireland and farmers are more resilient and adaptable than they imagine. We’ll still be here when Varadkar, Ryan, and Martin are long gone. This is the same the world over, not just in Ireland, where old, established communities outlast brain-farts from city-based do-gooders. We may eventually die out but not at the rate our betters expect.

    Sucklers are already changing. So are farmers - moving to part-time, using the likes of Moo-call, etc. to manage. And using off-farm income to keep the farm ticking over in some cases.

    I don’t think big changes are coming fast. They’re coming but not as quick as the doomsayers in the media portray.

    And just to finish: I’m going in the opposite direction and will probably start a small suckler herd next year. I hope the YouTube videos I’ll do on it give some in that Dublin bubble a heart attack 😀

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭alps


    There is no allocation or offer of funds for this.

    This is the report from Professor Thia Hennessy without the backing of the consultation panel that was put together for its "valued input".

    We are naturally sceptical that funds could come from the exchequer for such a proposal, but fact that the government appointed academic ran with this proposal from the start, and aligned in its entirety with the so called dairy proposal, one has to suspect a predetermined offer was suggested when the obvious predetermined proposal was "submitted"

    The bit that's hanging out here for me, is that I can't see a situtation whereby government pay one farmer to reduce while another can still expand....some form of restriction/quota will be applied.

    Siamsa...I wouldn't delay putting those breeding stock in place, although doubt if there was ever a more expensive time to do it..

    Brave decision to make.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,009 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    There is a good article worth reading from Adam Woods in the Farmers Journal. I think it is free to view, link attached

    https://www.farmersjournal.ie/suckler-kite-flying-won-t-wash-with-beef-farmers-738203



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Moocall is a dead loss in my opinion. Easy calving bulls with decent carcass scores and bcs management of cows is the way to go if part time suckling.

    Surely there are a rake of ageing dairy farmers that would consider a similar cow reduction scheme as well



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,507 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    That farm meeting I was at last week was told the IFA are officially against any dairy retirement scheme. But the VP admitted that plenty older dairy lads have told them they’d be interested in hearing more about it

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,061 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Non breeding is the key phrase Donald. Cows must breed in order to produce milk.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,709 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    "beef" is the key phrase Grueller. The definition of "beef" often excludes dairy farmers when it comes to certain schemes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,061 ✭✭✭Grueller


    That's the agriland link though. I have read elsewhere where non breeding "ruminants" is the terminology used. We'll have to wait and see what happens with the proposals.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,061 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Top result there Donald. Poor journalism by Agriland strikes again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,709 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    That's fair enough. But I said at the start I was basing what I said off that article.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,569 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Its utterly illogical IMO since suckler numbers are declining anyway and the pollution pressures etc. are coming from the expansion and intensification of the latter



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,709 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Never let it it be said that the powers that be ever did something illogical! 😉



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,061 ✭✭✭Grueller




  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭JohnChadwick


    Can't see why not. You should be allowed sell at any time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭manjou


    Sheep are ruminants also



  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭youllbemine


    Sickle exit scheme is an opportunity to get your money before its forced upon farmers. Look at what has been announced in Netherlands this weekend. They're coming for sucklers, dairy, sheep and your land. Call me a conspiracy theorist but there are serious changes coming and you can talk about people being resilient but when the guards are locking farmers up for contempt of court you'll say that fella was right after all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭alps


    24 Billion euros put aside to compensate dutch farmers.

    Thats 24,000,000,000 divided by the 30% of 53,000 farmers.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,559 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    The Guards will have to catch us first. What has this got to do with the Netherlands? Sure it might be no harm to get paid to get rid of the worst 30% of suckler cows.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    SUVs are very common now and a serious contributor to emissions. Any plan on a cull there and replace them with say a corsa or a corrolla?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,601 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    It's actually not much given land prices in the Netherlands. Average price for arable ground was over 69k/ha. That 24 billion divided by 15900 farmers is 1.5 million at those prices is only a 24 ha farm



  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭youllbemine




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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭alps


    It's mindblowing the pyramid schemes that they have got themselves into in the Netherlands.

    Inreckon the compensation will be administered in such a way that the banks don't loose out.

    The farmer will end up with sfa..



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